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Combat sucks now — my complaints and some suggestions


Neonwarrior

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Lemmy, I want to make clear that I'm not demanding anything. I'm only asking you to consider my changes (which you have). I fully expected a bit of disagreement. Let's not feel bad about this. Honestly the changes you've made sound like something I would have suggested a year or two ago, so the update is already a dream come true in that regard. Especially the defensive animations. Love those. Consider adding a LOT more.


I also loved Alien Isolation.

 

28 minutes ago, lemmy101 said:

 

There are defensive animations that tie into guard skill :/ and yes we plan on more combat stuff in future, but likely not build 41 since there's only so much work we can do and ever get it released. I'm just frustrated at brawler, something we went way out of our way to avoid being percieved as 'easy mode' and just 'more combat mode' still being seen as some easy mode that people begrudge playing on or even helping us balance and instead totally disregarding the black and white text 'combat often best avoided' as a show of intent for the balance of Survivor.

 

As for brawler mode being perceived as easy mode, I'm sorry, but it really did come across that way to me. I've been playing PZ since build 1.5 dropped back in 2011, so I know it's not trying to be a 'brawler.' I thought this was a way to bridge the gap between build 40 and the current difficulty, which is way, way harder than before; in essence, a type of easy mode. I understand balance is something you gotta consider for every update, and it's constantly evolving, so I assumed this was a placeholder mode for people who could not yet tolerate the new combat changes in build 41, to be changed or even removed at a later date. I assumed because I know that PZ is meant to be hard, and realistic.

 

It also could be something to do with the challenges on offer will default to survivor mode. I don't think I can play any of those on brawler mode, because I can't select those in the menu. Kind of strange when the description for brawler also describes itself as for people who like a challenge. 

 

Maybe it's the name itself. When I think of 'brawler,' I think of the subgenre of games known as beat-em-ups, like Yakuza or State of Emergency.  The gamemode does sound kind of like a euphemism for easy mode. Maybe you should call it something else that makes it clear that there are way more zombies? Like 'Gore' mode or 'Guts' mode or 'Horde' mode. 

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Guts and Horde really don't suggest 'more combat focus' though sadly, we're very open to better naming if someone suggests something viable, but those were the best we could come up with after a ton of discussion (in fact it was Fighter originally but someone in community suggested Brawler after a thursdoid about it which rang better to us)

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I think there's a lot of disconnect here.
A lot of folks are seeming to be raising hackles and getting defensive and nothing is going anywhere.

I personally like the new combat, but I agree that there is a bit of a disconnect between what is seen and what happens.
What I suggest is not change anything mechanically, but set something so that there will definitely be a swipe or a bite animation if you get scratched/lacerated/bitten. The combat remains identical, but feedback is given.

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2 minutes ago, Neonwarrior said:

As long as lemmy says the combat balance will improve and that this is not the final intended balance, I feel better.

 

well outside a few glitches and rough edges, I would say the balance will not change, as in 'lethality of a group of zombies per zombie member for base character', on survivor in general terms. Though the manner that difficulty will manifest will hopefully will become clearer and better signposted.

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Just now, lemmy101 said:

 

well outside a few glitches and rough edges, I would say the balance will not change, as in 'lethality of a group of zombies per zombie member for base character', on survivor in general terms. Though the manner that difficulty will manifest will hopefully will become clearer and better signposted.

You say this now, but in a few years, just wait! We're gonna have ninjas and lightsabers and T-Rexes! Then I'll point back and say, 'I was right to doubt the game balance!'

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Either you play the easier mode because you suck at the harder mode, or you don't.  That's your choice.

 

Not going to waste the days of my life arguing about this at this point. 

 

Will happily add more sandbox options to make it more customizable and continue to tweaking combat as necessary, but we're not going to throw it out of because someone just refuses to use the tools we provide them. 

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