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No skill points for faliure? Seems counter-intuitive...


Greybear

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So I noticed that failing at a mechanics job gives no skill experience. Not only does that make leveling skills harder, but it also feels counter-intuitive. I would love to see a system that gave you experience for failing.

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16 hours ago, PintLasher said:

Getting some small amount of XP back on a failure would be nice but getting extra from a failure?? That would need some kind of perk to go with it

Like all things game design, it's a matter of taste. I think failures teach you more than success does, and I like the balance of a system that grants you another advantage from failing random rolls.

 

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On 7/24/2019 at 12:43 PM, Greybear said:

So I noticed that failing at a mechanics job gives no skill experience. Not only does that make leveling skills needlessly harder, but it also feels counter-intuitive and unrealistic. Often in real life, you learn a lot more from failures than you do from successes. This should definitely be changed in my eyes. I would even prefer a system where failure would give you more skill XP than success.

 

I agree you should always get XP for performing skills, even failures. I don't think awarding more for failures than successes would be a good idea game wise, but always at least something.

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I definitely agree that failure should still give xp. When you fail, you learn that something doesn't work. But, that doesn't necessarily mean that you automatically understand why that thing doesn't work or what Will work in the future. What it does (described abstractly) is tell you what you Shouldn't try the next time. 

 

That is informative, but compare a failure with success. Generally speaking, there is one (or a few, or only so many) way(s) to succeed and countless ways to fail. If you fail (and learn from that failure) then, on your next try you are less likely to fail in the same way as your last try, but you can still fail in one of the countless other ways. 

 

But, a success has the potential to actually inform you of the 'inner workings', so to speak, of the activity that you are performing. A success doesn't just give you information about what doesn't work, it gives you information about what does work.

 

Now, of course, things change when you have active and competent instruction. A teacher can help you understand your failures in ways that trial and error can't. One way a teacher can be helpful is not only can they illuminate gaps in knowledge, but they can illuminate gaps in metaknowledge.

 

That is, not only do they know what you don't know about x, they know what you need to know about x in order to perform x competently. They can evaluate your failures in light of this metaknowledge and actually help you understand why you failed (thus allowing you to maximize your failures, so to speak). But, unfortunately, this is not (yet?) a thing in single player zomboid...

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