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(Change it back!) Why was Erosion toned down so much?


MadDan

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Reading on old Mondoids, I found these screenshots of Erosion and thought it looked so cool compared to what we currently have.

For example:

 

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Going into the current IWBUMS and setting time to 1 day for 100% growth didn't result in nearly as much overgrowth as these shots. Only grass was being affected and tiny cracks in the roads with the start of trees growing but no more.

 

Why would this ever be toned down unless it was seriously affecting performance? It's so cool and would show how much civilization has really dwindled.

Is there a way I can activate it elsewhere in the game's code?

Or, can it please be added back as a Sandbox option or in Survival?

 

That is what I envisioned for Erosion,

and while this is still great and adds a lot to the game:

 

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The original screenshots are so much better in my opinion and I'd love if that were the reality of Erosion.

Edited by MadDan2013
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32 minutes ago, M'aiq The Liar said:

I actually kind of like it how it is now, I never enjoyed having huge patches of grass on pavement.

I mean that's fair. That's why I was trying it in Sandbox just in case it was toned down for Survival. I'd like at least a portion of it back in Survival with more advanced options for Sandbox, similar to how The Last of Us is overgrown.

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I remember Turbo's original mod version of erosion used to be amazing with nature almost completely taking back the roads, buildings etc like in the screenshots you posted.

 

It does feel a tad restricted at the moment when erosion hits that max limit and would too love it if the erosion went all out nature-reclaiming.

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Trees growing in less than a year on pavement? Heck there are known towns that are still standing that were abandoned all through the world and no trees busting up through the streets. Even after 20-50 years.

 

Leave the trees out of it and I can be cool with grass and bushes being grown that maybe I can remove say if I was wanting a clean looking safe house area.

Edited by nickodemos
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It's a cool feature in a video game. It needs to be visible to players. It also means trees can be farmed indefinitely.

 

Reality doesn't always matter, in other words. For example, gasoline stored in a non-airtight container should spoil on 1 month to a year, but that would then make cars rather pointless an addition, as they could never be used past a point. (Can always argue for alternatives, but that's not my point.)

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/24/2018 at 8:22 PM, EnigmaGrey said:

It's a cool feature in a video game. It needs to be visible to players. It also means trees can be farmed indefinitely.

 

Reality doesn't always matter, in other words. For example, gasoline stored in a non-airtight container should spoil on 1 month to a year, but that would then make cars rather pointless an addition, as they could never be used past a point. (Can always argue for alternatives, but that's not my point.)

Well, to be fair, you can run a car on gasoline that's over 8 years old (know this first hand), it's just sub-optimal.

 

As long as this is a sandbox option gets more fleshed out in the future, I don't see much of an issue with erosion. I would really like to see it get divided between nature's growth and structures crumbling so I can stretch it out for realistic tree growth though.

Edited by Kim Jong Un
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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 years later...

Sorry but I'm going to resurrect this topic. I've been looking everywhere for a way to bring back the old plant life that took over roads. It would be a great option for players to turn this on in sandbox or something. I even thought about trying my hand at modding this in, but I don't even know where to start.

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7 minutes ago, Old Gregg said:

Sorry but I'm going to resurrect this topic. I've been looking everywhere for a way to bring back the old plant life that took over roads. It would be a great option for players to turn this on in sandbox or something. I even thought about trying my hand at modding this in, but I don't even know where to start.

I do believe it's on a long long list of possible additions/re-additions but it's low in priority as there's a lot more to focus on at the moment. Some time after animals/hunting are added I'd like it to be taken on to enhance the wilderness and it overtaking the world more. Seems like a suitable time to add it back and maybe enhance how wild it gets as the years get on.

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Does the game possibly define the different tiles as able to or not able to grow plants? Perhaps a modder or dev could simply allow asphalt and concrete tiles to grow plants like how dirt and grass tiles can.

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13 hours ago, Old Gregg said:

Does the game possibly define the different tiles as able to or not able to grow plants? Perhaps a modder or dev could simply allow asphalt and concrete tiles to grow plants like how dirt and grass tiles can.

 

Hey Old Gregg, if you're serious about wanting to mod Erosion again then I'd suggest you kindly message Turbo on either here or Reddit- he's the nicest guy, has helped me out in the past and would most likely happily help out anyone that wanted to revive his old mod. 

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6 hours ago, Mitara said:

 

Hey Old Gregg, if you're serious about wanting to mod Erosion again then I'd suggest you kindly message Turbo on either here or Reddit- he's the nicest guy, has helped me out in the past and would most likely happily help out anyone that wanted to revive his old mod. 

 

I did message him before bumping this thread. Hoping he replies. Cheers!

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/3/2022 at 5:14 PM, Old Gregg said:

 

I did message him before bumping this thread. Hoping he replies. Cheers!

 

Try on Reddit too, he might be more active there (the admins & Devs are all listed on the right side on the subreddit, I believe). Good luck! 

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On 5/2/2022 at 1:29 PM, MadDan2013 said:

I do believe it's on a long long list of possible additions/re-additions but it's low in priority as there's a lot more to focus on at the moment. Some time after animals/hunting are added I'd like it to be taken on to enhance the wilderness and it overtaking the world more. Seems like a suitable time to add it back and maybe enhance how wild it gets as the years get on.

 

Seems like the PERFECT time to be honest. Personally I agree with @Magic Mark's idea for splitting up the erosion between building decay and natural growth. But the devs should take it even further. Since the new Foraging system has released, the map has already been divided into perfect different biome types for this type of mechanic upgrade. We have Streets/Parking, Town, Trailer Park, Farm, Farmland, Grasslands, Forest, and Deep Forest. Each of these zones is perfectly suited to define their own specific level of Erosion. Obviously Deep Forests would have the fastest rate of both building decay and natural growth, and Streets/Parking should have the least. Everything in between should progressively sit further along that scale. So Farms and Farmland should be sitting at average Erosion rates, with Farmland being taken over a little faster. This alone would make for a great change, as you would be able to see nature slowly reclaim everything. First with the rural settlements, then the small towns, and finally even Louisville would start to get overtaken by nature once more.

 

However, I think the final little cherry on top here would be dynamic biomes. If my friends and I go into a forest and chop the whole thing down, it shouldn't just pop back up overnight as if it is still a Deep Forest. I should be able to terraform a Deep Forest into a Forest and finally into a Grassland. But let's not stop there, if I plant crops in that field I just cleared, it should become Farmland. Once I build something on top of it, a Farm. Once we have a small village built, it could be categorized under a Trailer Park. Not that it would ever happen, but theoretically, I should be able to spawn in a Deep Forest and eventually turn it into a Town. Street/Parking should probably remain unattainable unless devs plan to add paving roads to the game one day. Conversely, cells can grow to the point of changing biomes over time. IE a Trailer Park eventually becoming a Deep Forest when buildings decay.

 

This 'Dynamic Biome Erosion' system could be based on the number of plants and buildings in a cell, as well as the type of cells surrounding it. Obviously I'm not a bigtime programmer, so I don't know the logistics of something like this, but I imagine it could work similarly to the Desired Zombie Population. Each cell would have a desired number or trees/plants, as well as a max cap on them (I assume their already is a max cap in place). The simulation will attempt to grow those trees wherever and however it can. Each biome will have progressively lower rates of growth descending from Deep Forest to Streets/Parking. These rates are bolstered or hampered by the neighboring cells. For example, Lickskillet may be an extremely rural settlement, but it it surrounded by Farms and Farmland for miles. So even though initial Erosion will happen quickly, it will take a long time for the forest to actually overtake it. Meanwhile a place like Rosewood, which isn't only bordered by Farmland, but a lot of Deep Forest as well, may actually get overtaken by Deep Forest sooner. This way, if I go into a Deep Forest and clear it out, it will be subject to extremely fast Erosion, and require constant maintenance unless I go out and clear the surrounding cells as well. The further I clear, the longer I have before nature should start creeping in again.

                 

Buildings/tiles can be considered the opposite of plants. The more buildings and manmade tiles in a cell (and it's neighbors), the lower the growthrate and max cap of plants will be. In Downtown Louisville, for example, there should realistically be no major plant growth until the buildings really start to decay. Buildings could be seen in the code as a percentage integrity value. Over time, they will decay little by little at a steady rate. Their decay rate, similarly to plant growthrate, could be determined by the amount of plants in a cell, as well as the neighboring cell types. Realistically, a cabin in the woods should only last for a few years without any human interaction before they would completely disappear. As buildings decay and pass certain thresholds, they could roll checks to see if a collapse of some kind happens. Maybe below 75% integrity, they roll a 5% chance. Below 50% is a 25% chance. Below 33% is 50%, etc, etc. If the roll succeeds, portions of the building collapse. This could even lead to chain reactions where the building starts to collapse and ends up completely levelled. Regardless, certain tiles would be destroyed, leaving behind trash, rubble, and maybe a few usable materials. This brings a whole new level of danger to exploring years-old buildings whose bones are starting to fail. When a building completely collapses (at least 95%), it is removed from the list of buildings and the growthrate/maxcap for plants goes up. Overtime, you should start to find forests full of ruin and scrap where towns used to be.

 

Add all this with an upgrade to the level and visual scale of Erosion overall, and that's an incredible update that fundamentally changes the atmosphere and gameplay loop of PZ, while also increasing player agency and choice within the game world. Hell, even just updating it so tiles themselves have varying stages of decay would be amazing. It's always weird going into a rotting house and finding perfectly clean tubs and counters LOL. But seriously, imagine a server 5 years on, where the last remaining ruins of the small towns are hidden under the canopies of trees, where Louisville is a vast overgrown concrete jungle (LITERALLY!), and the only respite from the trees are small little gaps left by the cracked and crumbling highways, finally starting to become filled with weeds and shrubs as well.

Edited by TrailerParkThor
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