Vortecus Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 (edited) So, the pacifist trait - is a pretty terrible trait to pick, purely because no one who's actually smart at the game uses firearms due to their inaccuracy and loudness. (You can create unmanageable hordes with a few shots; let alone the thousands of bullets that you have to waste to get a decent aiming skill where you don't miss 4 in 5 shots). So; it's a terrible trait purely because melee weapons are the preferred weapon of choice and no one wants decreased XP for all melee related skills - not a surprise because of their stealthier approach to combat. And the +4 points that it gives you is purely not enough to persuade a smart person who plays the game to survive to pick the trait. So here's my balancing suggestion... It's safe to assume that pacifists hate violence, right? So how about we add a very minute amount of unhappiness per zombie killed and a drastic amount of unhappiness for murdering a player (or human NPC). This will amount to at least 20-30 zombies killed in a day to get depressed, or be 1-3 humans murdered. This will add a permanent use to the antidepressant pills that are currently in the game; and will be the new smokers' cigarette. Pacifists will have to regularly take antidepressants to forget about the horrors of the apocalypse. And due to the increased negative effects of having such a trait; the trait should give you +6 trait points, making the trait actually seem reasonable to use. Please leave your feedback in a reply below! Edited September 8, 2018 by Vortecus Vaileasys, GoodOldLeon and DedpaUrvor 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenris_Wolf Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 12 hours ago, Vortecus said: purely because no one who's actually smart at the game uses firearms due to their inaccuracy and loudness. Thats entirely a matter of opinion. I use firearms more then anything else. Theres multiple advantages to using them..and the loudness can be a advantage too. Sure stealth has can be handly, but you waste a lot of time trying to sneak around avoiding mobs and picking them off one at a time. I prefer to clear out the whole town and loot in safety, knowing the noise has already dragged everything to my location. The accuracy is fine with firearms if you use them properly. For a vanilla pistol or rifle, you have a base 45% chance if you stand still for a few seconds after moving before you try to fire, with a extra 15% for each level. At level 4 aiming your chance has hit 105%. Its often the moving around too much and firing too soon that causes people to miss. I think your unclear what the Pacifist trait does. The effect is the same for both melee weapons and firearms. It does not reduce your accuracy, or your damage, it reduces the amount of experience your character earns with every weapon by a modifier of 0.75. Slow learner is 6 extra points, and reduces the experience for all skills by a modifier of 0.7, given the option of the 2 traits pacifist is a much better choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortecus Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 Thanks for the heads up on accuracy, I just thought firearms were terrible and have has nothing but bad experiences with them; thank you for the tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortecus Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) Can I ask though, how do you get so much ammo without loot respawning? Unless you're using mods to either produce or better find ammo; ammo is a serious problem in the world of Project Zomboid. As the amount of ammo that you can loot is far lower than the amount of zombies that gunshots could attract. Edited August 28, 2018 by Vortecus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenris_Wolf Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Well that particular screenshot in from our server, and loot respawn is on. I have a insanely large stockpile. And its also the ORGM test server, so ammo is fairly abundant. But even in SP with no mods and default survival settings (rare loot), if you drive around hit all the police stations, prison, and gunshops (plus hunting lodge and targetting range) you can end up with a pretty big stockpile. Its also worth mentioning: firing guns no longer has the danger it once did now that vehicles have been added, you can lure massive hordes around firing out the window at them, and pulling ahead a bit when the horde gets to close, and continue firing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortecus Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 You're being biased, imagine how much time, food/water consumed, and how many obstacles (like zombies) would come into place when needing to loot the entire map's key locations for ammo. The amount of fuel, food, and water spent would not be worth the amount of ammo you would get out of it, let alone how much ammo (if used) you'd spend actually securing the place to be able to loot it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortecus Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 So take your modded opinions elsewhere, firearms are not the preferred weapons in vanilla; just the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenris_Wolf Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Starting in rosewood, I've done rosewood police and prison, the no-name town police and gunshop, the far west gunshop and muld police in less then 4 days after initial start, and had quite a nice stockpile from those alone. My initial goal is always hit up the key locations, making it through westpoint to the hunting lodge and range requires a bit more effort though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortecus Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 Try doing this on 6 Months Later + Hardcore. The only way I play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenris_Wolf Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, Vortecus said: So take your modded opinions elsewhere, firearms are not the preferred weapons in vanilla; just the way it is. Entirely uncalled for, I'm simply explaining firearms are still viable, both modded and vanilla. I've used this play style in both. Sorry that they don't work for you, but your style of play is not the only way. At any rate not going to get dragged into a argument about this. CaptKaspar, Magic Mark and Vaileasys 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortecus Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Fenris_Wolf said: Entirely uncalled for I'm British, I think you're taking my passive-aggressive attitude the wrong way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaileasys Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 On 8/28/2018 at 2:02 AM, Vortecus said: It's safe to assume that pacifists hate violence, right? So how about we add a very minute amount of unhappiness per zombie killed and a drastic amount of unhappiness for murdering a player (or human NPC). This will amount to at least 20-30 zombies killed in a day to get depressed, or be 1-3 humans murdered. This will add a permanent use to the antidepressant pills that are currently in the game; and will be the new smokers' cigarette. Pacifists will have to regularly take antidepressants to forget about the horrors of the apocalypse. I imagine that once NPCs are on their way to being added, they'll likely take a look over all the current systems like Moodles and traits to see what can be changed to benefit from them. Pacifist would definitely be one that I'd expect would need to be changed to accompany them. I agree with this suggestion anyhow. Tails 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OffitMan Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 Pacifist should work the same way as being panicked. If I understand correctly, the longer your character survives and is exposed to danger, they will become less prone to being startled. The more your character reluctantly uses weapons, the less reluctant they become over time. Vortecus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soylentgreenfood Posted May 29, 2019 Share Posted May 29, 2019 According to the Wiki the Pacifist trait decreases weapon XP by 25%. I am assuming this is XP gained per successful action that grants XP in the various weapon skills. If that is correct a great way to balance out this trait is to pick up Fast Learner along side it. Pacifist gives you -4 points where as Fast Learner gives you +6. Even though this is a deficit of 2 points the Faster Learner trait gives you a positive XP gain of 30% to all skills so you actually come out ahead when you have both Pacifist and Fast Learner on weapon skills by 5% plus all of your other skills will have a 30% boost. I usually take this combo because it seems to have an overall benefit. If this is incorrect please let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saskidan Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 I'm picking pacifist and fast learner next playthrough, I think it's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptKaspar Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 On 5/28/2019 at 9:46 PM, soylentgreenfood said: According to the Wiki the Pacifist trait decreases weapon XP by 25%. I am assuming this is XP gained per successful action that grants XP in the various weapon skills. If that is correct a great way to balance out this trait is to pick up Fast Learner along side it. Pacifist gives you -4 points where as Fast Learner gives you +6. Even though this is a deficit of 2 points the Faster Learner trait gives you a positive XP gain of 30% to all skills so you actually come out ahead when you have both Pacifist and Fast Learner on weapon skills by 5% plus all of your other skills will have a 30% boost. I usually take this combo because it seems to have an overall benefit. If this is incorrect please let me know. Smart. You get a boost to all of your skills for only 2 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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