Some medical suggestions.

[Burger_Time]

Disclaimer — some symptoms of the injures I've suggested may be not implemented currently (Like passing out). This post can also contain some type ofof injures that have already been suggested (even if it was me ).

 

First of all — I want to suggest some sort of rework of the Frist aid skill. Currently, first aid skill only makes healing wounds more effective and IMO is useless.

So here's my suggestion about First aid skill — a person with low skill can misdiagnose some injures. For example — if he got a fracture, he can think that it's only a twist or something like that. But if he gets checked by a doctor, he will know exactly what injures he have.

 

Next up — Medicine production.

 

Besides very crude ethnoscience we should be able to produce medicine. Like, why should scientists' labor go a waste? We can use it instead!

 

With high First aid skill, some information from the Magazines (Science and Med magazines, please?), needed resources and equipment and lots of time our characters should be able to make some Basic medication. They won't be as effective as the pills made by proffesional workers in Labs, but they sure as hell will be better than herbs.

 

Here are a bit of examples:

 

Penicillin — antobiotic, which can be gained from a common mold. Big amounts of Penicillin can make your character feel bad.

 

Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) — can be used as an disinfectant in small amounts in solution with water. Can be obtained by hydrolysis of Ammonium Peroxydisulfate (Can be found in Medical clinics or labs. Maybe even crafted?)

 

As for painkillers and other things like Sleeping meds, there are some things (I.e morphine which can be obtained from opium), but I'm not quite sure if they will be fitting (For opium — it's obtainable only from some plants which cannot be met in America), but there may be some alternatives I don't know anything about.

 

 

 

So, there's a another one suggestion — we need more ways to hurt ourselves.

 

Here's the list of injures I want to see in game:

 

Twist — an injure that can be gained if you: Run on the stairs; Jump from not-so-high spots; getting hit; got into car crash.

Symptoms: Moderate pain, slight damage and reduced walking/fighting abilities (Depending on what you've twisted)

To heal you need to reduce it (Or how do it called) and rest few days. The higher your/your teammate first aid skill, the higher your chances to successfully reduce (?) Twist.

 

So ummm. Not very painful fracture.

 

Concussion of brain — an injure that can be gained by: Getting hit; Car accident; falling from the high spot.

Symptoms are: short/medium pass out (Depending on the state), pain, insomnia, stress and (?) hallucinations (?)

To diagnose it, you/your teammate need to have a 3 first aid skill or higher.

To heal it, you need to: Rest for a week/two weeks (depending on state). Healing can be speedup by taking the right pills.

 

Injure of the brain — more serius type of brain injure than concussion. Can be gained by: A car accident; Getting hit; falling from high spot.

 

Symptoms are: Medium/long/Very long pass out (depending on the state) (The last state (That accompanies with very long pass out) Have a very high chance to be lethal if not treated by a professional), moderate pain, moderate/several/very several damage, nausea, insomnia, stress and (?) Hallucinations (?).

This injure can be mistaken with a concussion of the brain. To diagnose it, you/your teammate need to have a 5th level of an first aid skill.

To heal it, you need to rest for a few weeks/month/A LOT OF TIME, BASICALLY and take some pills.

 

Bruise — an injure that can be gained by receiving any blunt weapon damage I.e zombie hit, slight car crash.

 

Symptoms: none. That's a Bruise, what did you expect?

 

You don't even need to treat it — it will go away after a few days regardless of treatment.

 

Contusion — an injure that can be gained if something exploded near to the character. 

 

Symtopms are: hard of hearing/Deafness, stress, insomnia.

 

To heal it, you need to rest for Few days/Weeks depending on severity.

 

Frostbites are skin injures, that can be caused by standing outside house at cold windy weather. Usually affects Toes, feet, fingers, hands, ears and noses.

 

Symptoms are: insensetivity (if frostbite haven't been heated), minor pain/severe pain (depending on state and if frostbite have been heated up), reduced speed (if feet is injured), reduced fighting abilities (if hand is injured) or even (?) Immobility of injured limb (?).

 

To heal it, you need to: bandage injured part of the body, enter any house and slowly heat up injured limb (if you heat it up fastly, you can make it even worse). When your character starts to feel pain, bandage frostbite and stay in a warm place from 5 days to 4 weeks depending on severity.  Healing can be speedup by consuming hot food (?).

If your character got the last state and doesn't feel pain even after long attempts to heat frostbite, limb most likely needs to be AmPuTaTeD.

 

More stages of wound infection. Usually happens when you gain scratch in dirty place. Has four stages: Slight infection, Moderate infection, severe infection and deep infection.

 

You can prevent your character from receiving severe stages of wound infection before/when only the first stage appear by disinfecting the wound. But when you gain moderate infection, you gotta treat it more.

 

Symptoms: sight/moderate pain, higher body temperature, wound purulence.

 

The first stage isn't dangerous at all. You can just disinfect the wound and you should be fine. If not treated well enough, it will go to the next stage...

 

Moderate wound infection is the thing you should really worry about. To treat it, you need to disinfect it sometimes and take antibiotics.

 

Severe infection may be fatal because it quickly grows into Deep infection. To treat it, you need to take antibiotics, disinfect wound and rarely do blood transfusion.

 

Deep infection. The virus going to kill you. To treat it, you need to amputate part of the body where infection appeared before it reaches main blood flow.

 

P. S. To wound infection: slight infection won't grow into higher stages in normal conditions, so you won't be dead only because you've cut yourself when tried to climb through broken window and you don't have any disinfectants around. But if you got several unbandaged and not disinfected wounds, then sure it will grow.

 

Really need to think about it more...

 

Artery rupture — an injure that causes large blood lose which will kill you very quickly if you won't do anything.

 

Appears after recieving a deep wound on a specific part (I.e neck). As I said before, it will cause a huge blood lose.

 

First thing you need to do is apply tourniquet like belt or something like that. After that you need to stich the wound and you should be fine, however, it's highly not recommended to do any tiring activities because the stitch may break up.

 

Eye injure is a very rare injure that will make your vision abilities worse.

 

Has a very small chance to appear (1—5% depending on accuracy) when recieving damage on the head. Usually makes your character feel severe pain which can lead to to unconscious due to the pain shock.

 

Has four three stages: slight temporary, severe temporary and severe permanent. Slight stage will simply make your vision a bit worse, but the severe stage will make your eye unable to see.

 

Treatment for the temporary stages is fairly easy — you need to bandage your eye and disinfect it over time. The permanent stage is unhealable.

 

Traumatic shock is not as much as injury or disease but a state. Depends on the severity of pain and blood loss rate, so the more character feels pain and the more blood lose rate, the higher state of shock will be.

 

Traumatic shock have two stages: Erectile and Torpid.

 

Erectile state happens when character feels medium/severe pain and have Medium blood loss rate. Character is more active due to Adrenaline boost (I will talk about it later), usually accompanied with screams/moans.

 

Torpid state happens when character feels severe and higher pain and have Fast/very fast blood loss rate. If gained after the erectile state, character will slowly lose all the strength and eventually will become unconscious/unable to move. Char don't scream or do any activities, he's just lying on the ground or somewhere else.

 

Adrenaline boost, again is nota an injure, it's a state. Usually appears when character's stressed, panicked or injured pretty badly. In this state, character will have more strength, become more active, feel less pain, hunger and fatigue. However, this state doesn't last very long, and soon adrenaline boost effect will stop, which will bring back all pain and hunger effects, give your character Fatigue boost and make your char's limbs shake.

 

Paralysis. A very harsh injure to have. Usually appears if char experienced some things that normally would have make him dead. I.e falls from 5 story building.

 

Symptoms: loss of control, insensitivity.

 

Have a very high chance to appear after the Spine fracture (Everything below the fracture spot will be paralysed) and 100% after the neck fracture. Pretty much can't be healed.

 

Internal bleeding is another pretty much dead sentence. Same as Paralisis, appears only if you will get into situation that will 100% kill you in any other conditions. Everything is simple — your character begin to lose all his blood until he dies. However, there can also be minor internal bleeding, which will disappear over time, but will make some serious damage.

 

As I've said several times before, happens in extreme situations like car crash, falling from high place.

Also may happen because of rib fractures.

 

 

Stay tuned! I can add more injures in any time.

 

You can write an injures that you want to see in game too in comments.

 

Bye!

 

 

 

 

 

MEDIC!!!

 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Burger_Time

[Burger_Time]

Upd: Added frostbites.

[GrumpyTheClown]

While I'm late to this suggestion this sounds like a pretty neat idea.

[Shotgun_Messiah]

sounds great ! ,but waiting for weeks or months in bed to heal  because of a brain injury? don’t get me wrong ,very realistic idea but i think thats as boring as the game can ever get. You would just die from such injury anyway. we dont have life support units and stuff in this game. and nobody wants to wait that long while others are playing xD

Edited September 7, 2018 by Shotgun_Messiah
edit

[Burger_Time]

20 hours ago, Shotgun_Messiah said:

sounds great ! ,but waiting for weeks or months in bed to heal  because of a brain injury? don’t get me wrong ,very realistic idea but i think thats as boring as the game can ever get. You would just die from such injury anyway. we dont have life support units and stuff in this game. and nobody wants to wait that long while others are playing xD

The human's body is a very fragile thing. It can be harmed by anything, but it doesn't feel like that. You can crash into a car and you won't lose too much (except for the health that can be regained very fast if you will eat a lot.

 

And That's gonna be your fault if you decided to crash into a house at high speeds.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Burger_Time

[Luxus Zigard]

I really like your idea. I would wait months to cure brain damage if necessary, but it should be very difficult to heal. In the solo mode maybe it would be a nuisance and surely you would die (one more cause to die), but in MP, a doctor (great healing ability) could get to heal you and recover you in a lot less time.

 

About the hallucinations, I had been thinking about it for a while. Imagine that you eat a mushroom hallucinogenic without wanting (low skill in herbalist), you start to have fever and need to sleep, you lie down in bed to rest and suddenly listen the Zombos entering the house. You get up and start fighting with them. The other players see you, but you're fighting against nothing, there's nothing there, you're hallucinating. That would be great in my opinion.

Edited September 7, 2018 by Luxus Zigard

[Shotgun_Messiah]

On 07.09.2018 at 11:12 PM, Burger_Time said:

The human's body is a very fragile thing. It can be harmed by anything, but it doesn't feel like that. You can crash into a car and you won't lose too much (except for the health that can be regained very fast if you will eat a lot.

 

And That's gonna be your fault if you decided to crash into a house at high speeds.

 i just don’t want to wait for ingame weeks to heal if the injury can disable me from walking and doing stuff...thats a long time.

[EnigmaGrey]

9 minutes ago, Shotgun_Messiah said:

 i just don’t want to wait for ingame weeks to heal if the injury can disable me from walking and doing stuff...thats a long time.

You can change injury severity and even disable fractures in Sandbox, just in case you didn't know.

[Shotgun_Messiah]

i like the realism ,i prefer keeping them ,but not in a really boring way ,afterall even how realistic you make it ,its a game ,not a waiting simulator ,the devs would balance it anyway.

[EnigmaGrey]

2 hours ago, Shotgun_Messiah said:

i like the realism ,i prefer keeping them ,but not in a really boring way ,afterall even how realistic you make it ,its a game ,not a waiting simulator ,the devs would balance it anyway.

14

The thing is that this is the balance. It took quite a bit of arguing on my part to get broken/fractured legs to the point where you could walk with them and recover. The original design was just to kill you immediately, because how likely is it anyone would walk away from a fall and a broken leg?  I'm not saying we're happy with the result, but I feel the "waiting" to recover is a better alternative, and we've added sandbox options specifically to make the wait for either modders or the developers to address it more bearable.  Please, don't be afraid to use 'em (we can even add more or tweak 'em, if we get feedback on them).

[Burger_Time]

18 minutes ago, EnigmaGrey said:

but I feel the "waiting' is a better alternative

Well, I think same.

[Shotgun_Messiah]

for such injuries ,yes but even a serious brain trauma?....doesnt matter lol  yeah i agree.

[Burger_Time]

Upd2: added flu and an example of a complications and contagion.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Burger_Time

[TheWraithPlayer]

Couln't find it but somewhere in the Forum archives there is a long (I think multiple pages) conversation about this very thing in the suggestions section me and a few others worked on for a while two or three years ago. Ended up with a long list of injuries and I think maybe even medical supplies.

[Burger_Time]

Yep, that's Some medical suggestions update. Added several stages of wound infection.

[DoritoS]

That's a nice long post. I'll have to reply to it in pieces cause I'm at work on break.

 

I've played the medic role up to lvl 10 so I have a pretty good idea what it's weak points are. I wouldn't say it's useless to only heal injuries since they heal dramatically faster. A fractured leg in this game is sooo easy and really frustrating; it makes you want to start over. However, a medic heals a fractured leg in maybe an hour (real time) and you can still run.

 

I think you would have to be very very careful about adding more injuries to the game. You don't want things to get annoying.

 

to be continued

Edited November 8, 2018 by DoritoS

[nickodemos]

You stack to many real life injuries/medical issues into the game it will destroy it. Some things like frostbite I can see. I would like to see that as a possibility, even with the new improved thermals.

 

Other things I would not even want to see till after later in the game. Things like pressure sores early on are kinda annoying to think about. Brain injuries. I'll start a new game. Takes months to heal. I'll start a new game.

 

Since I do not play the vanilla version is there a way to get months of antibiotics? As it is the games I play it is hard to find and when you do it is only one or two pills. Where are you going to find months worth?

 

Only way I would want to see most of these created is if the First Aid class is ramped up where your level has a real benefit in curing yourself.

[Burger_Time]

On 09.11.2018 at 3:21 AM, nickodemos said:

Brain injuries. I'll start a new game. Takes months to heal. I'll start a new game.

As I said before — it will be your fault if you decided to crash into wall on a high speed. These things are like punishment for you not being too careful while doing some dangerous stuff. Also you will most likely die after receiving severe brain trauma because: 1st — you will be unconscious and you may be eaten by Zs, 2nd — if zombies won't get you, you will just die because you are unconscious and you won't be able to heal all the injures without someone's help. This can play as a more logical and realistic way to die in car crash than just lose all your health for no reason. 

 

Actually, when I was writing "Someone's help", I thought about one event...

 

Maybe if you have a severe injure while you're unconscious, you have a very small chance to find yourself in a house in the woods with your injures healed. 

 

And also one thing about Brain trauma — you still will be able to do some things like loot and fight with some serious debuffs. If you lie down in the bed all the time, your healing simply will be faster.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Burger_Time

[nickodemos]

OK. Sitting back and really thinking things through in PZ terms I think I can get behind this.

 

Brain moodles:

Stage 4: No exp gain during a stage 4 episode, 75% combat penalty. Fatigue at 75% faster. IE get someplace safe.

Stage 3: 75% loss in skill gain, 50% combat penalty. Fatigue at 50% faster rate.

Stage 2: 50% loss in skill gain, 25% combat penalty. Fatigue at 25% faster rate.

Stage 1: 25% loss in skill gain, 0% combat penalty.

 

With brain injury moodle can fluctuate. Push yourself to hard you can go up a stage. Rest and can do more.

So say a behind the scene number is reached at time of accident. 250-1000 random number. Not fully healed till reaches 0. First 48 is always a stage 4. But resting will increase heal rate and reduce overall number. Background number can never increase but it can come to a stop. So after two weeks you could be a stage 1 even if your background number is still high. Over do the exertion and you can start climbing a stage.

 

Yeah. OK. Won me over. This could be doable but I think it should be an opt in though. And really heal rate should be based on medical skill so as to give players a reason to up it. If in multiplayer then a person should check on the patient at least as many times a day as the stage a person is at to help speed things along. So stage 4 would need to be looked at 4x a day while stage 1 only once. To make things easily trackable it would be a bandage over the head that needs replaced.

[Burger_Time]

9 hours ago, nickodemos said:

Brain moodles:

Stage 4: No exp gain during a stage 4 episode, 75% combat penalty. Fatigue at 75% faster. IE get someplace safe.

Stage 3: 75% loss in skill gain, 50% combat penalty. Fatigue at 50% faster rate.

Stage 2: 50% loss in skill gain, 25% combat penalty. Fatigue at 25% faster rate.

Stage 1: 25% loss in skill gain, 0% combat penalty.

 

With brain injury moodle can fluctuate. Push yourself to hard you can go up a stage. Rest and can do more.

So say a behind the scene number is reached at time of accident. 250-1000 random number. Not fully healed till reaches 0. First 48 is always a stage 4. But resting will increase heal rate and reduce overall number. Background number can never increase but it can come to a stop. So after two weeks you could be a stage 1 even if your background number is still high. Over do the exertion and you can start climbing a stage.

Nice example!

 

Also this should probably affect coordination, hearing and vision for a bit too.

[Burger_Time]

Upd: added post scriptum to the wound infection paragraph to make it a bit more clear.

[Burger_Time]

Upd: added artery rupture and controversial eye injure paragraph.

[Burger_Time]

Upd: Added Traumatic shock and Adrenaline boost states, Paralysis and Internal bleeding death sentences.

[Burger_Time]

Upd: Added Medicine prodiction article and removed Disease section (It was kinda unnecessary tbh. Big dumb me. :P)