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Faalagorn

Food that should rot, but currently don't

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I really like that there are totally not perishable food that are in Zomboid, as despite pretty much everything having a shelf time label IRL, some things can pretty much survive indefinitely, only slightly losing their taste and visual appeal and maybe some nutrients at most (Twinkies), and I also like that foods doesn't disappear when rotten, still having option to eat it in a pinch with all consequences, use it as a fertilizer to produce more food or as a pest-deterrent (milk), and use it to train cooking, when master chef (lol) can even add part of it to a healthy dish, even if it sometimes can be unrealistic for meat that's been spoiled for ages ;).

 

With all that in mind, however, I'm always surprised that there's a few items that don't spoil while they clearly shouldn't. Let me list it here:

  • Butter
    the most obvious one, which even spawns in fridges, yet with the current mechanic you don't even have to bother keeping it refrigerated as it never spoils. Gameplay-wise you do lose an option to make pie dough when all butter spoils sadly, but you can't make a cake batter without a milk anyway, and flour can still be used to make bread dough. Eventually, I'd love to see options to get your own butter and milk (there are mods for that, including the addition of UHT milk though it was oddly unpopular in USA at 1990s and powdered milk by Hydrocraft). And I assume that might come if animals gets introduced (just have your own cow, sheep or goat and voila, milk!) – until then we should deal with it spoiling in vanilla game for realism/consistency sake and maybe add powdered alternatives to make different cakes/pies/etc. without butter?.
  • Cake Batter, Cake Preparation, Pie Batter, Pie Preparation
    while technically a nice way to preserve it before all milk expires in case of cake, I think it should rot in a similar fashion if not quicker than the resulting products. In the meantime until animals gets added, I would welcome alternative ingredients to make it without perishables too (see above :))
  • Melted Ice Cream
    it's nice that ice cream melts when unfrozen, but it should spoil pretty quickly in a melted state too, being a dairy product that attracts germs (unless it's a water ice cream, then I guess it's possible?)
  • Marinara, Mustard and Ketchup
    while those have a long shelf time, Mayonnaise and Remoulade currently expire, so it'd be natural if those would too.

Originally I also considered yeast, but since it's drainable item (similar to Flour, Sugar (which causes issues as evolved recipe ingredient) and Vinegar but I'd love it to change since they are food by themselves after all, as well as Antidepressants, Beta Blockers, Painkillers, Sleeping Tablets and Vitamins – certainly not less than Bleach, Cigarettes, Antibiotics or medical plants) and it's a way to make bread when everything expires and normal yeast spoils quite quickly, we can pretend it's dried yeast, unless you want to implement baking powder as well, which would be welcome addition :)).

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14 hours ago, Faalagorn said:

Butter

Butter is a difficult one, while butter does eventually go rancid, it's very unlikely to grow mold or bacteria. I agree it probably should eventually rot, but in the real world this can be up to several weeks and ~3 months refrigerated, which is a lot longer than most people seem to survive.

 

 

14 hours ago, Faalagorn said:

Antidepressants, Beta Blockers, Painkillers, Sleeping Tablets and Vitamins

I have to disagree with adding expiration dates to medication. While your medication does have an expiration date, the expiration date is more of a "potency guarantee". Most medications can still provide their positive benefits several years after they "expire". 


Disclaimer: Until the Zombie apocalypse does happen, I would recommend that you avoid using expired medication. 

EDIT: I misinterpreted what you were saying about the medication, saying that they should all be "Food" rather than "Drainable", right?

Edited by Vaileasys

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10 hours ago, Vaileasys said:

Butter is a difficult one, while butter does eventually go rancid, it's very unlikely to grow mold or bacteria. I agree it probably should eventually rot, but in the real world this can be up to several weeks and ~3 months refrigerated, which is a lot longer than most people seem to survive.

I don't see a problem with such long date – currently the longest times to expire is set for player-made jars at 60 days before it goes stale and additional 90 days on top of it before it rots, summing at 150 days. Additionally keeping it in a fridge will prolong that time and frozing it, assuming it's still x50, could push them to an absurd in terms of Zomboid, 7500 days which is 20.5 year, but that'd require maintaining generator for 20.5 years before it rots, and afterwards you can still use them indefinitely by cutting the stale parts by master chef ;). Also, keep in mind that there are servers with long enough date and in single player you can use a different character on the same map, so long expiration times is not something that won't be experienced. Also, if the suggestion to shortening that time for improperly stored food (like leaving the butter on ground outside during summer) would ever be implemented, then you could see the spoilage even quicker, making storing it in a fridge more important.

 

10 hours ago, Vaileasys said:
On 23/07/2018 at 6:35 PM, Faalagorn said:

Antidepressants, Beta Blockers, Painkillers, Sleeping Tablets and Vitamins

I have to disagree with adding expiration dates to medication. While your medication does have an expiration date, the expiration date is more of a "potency guarantee". Most medications can still provide their positive benefits several years after they "expire". 


Disclaimer: Until the Zombie apocalypse does happen, I would recommend that you avoid using expired medication. 

EDIT: I misinterpreted what you were saying about the medication, saying that they should all be "Food" rather than "Drainable", right?

Edited 10 hours ago by Vaileasys

Yup – sorry I wasn't clear enough. What I meant was adding them to the Type = Food and not adding expiration date as you mentioned (unless as a flavor text with the actual expiration sat way more than that), maybe I shouldn't mention them in the thread about the rotting mechanic to avoid confusion ;).

What you said is 100% right, the expiration dates on medication are there only to guarantee that nothing remotely bad happens to it, but (outside of vaccines and maybe antibiotics), the pills are perfectly fine most of the time long after the exp date, it's just an extra safety.

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If we talk 'non-perishable' that have an expiration date, then everything canned should have their 2-3 years. Then pickles, chocolate, cupcakes and other stuff, including spice. Of course, medicinal herbs, violets and similar should rot in a couple of days. But... where does that leave us? All the food in the world is perishable, and maintaining balance is a priority, so while I do understand your reasoning and would like to see that implemented, I'm afraid that will require massive rebalance, so won't happen soon and there are more issues to fix and features to implement (steam generators, solar power, canning machines, tupperware etc).

 

On the bright side, you can make the mod for all the changes with the food and post it on Steam, because that's a simple enough thing to do and you probably don't need to wait for that long to get what you want. And many people would be grateful for that =)

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On 04/08/2018 at 1:59 AM, Tails said:

-Wild eggs

- frog (if not butchered)

- flora

-Grape leaves

-Rose hips

 

these food items should rot over time

But wild eggs should rot already, after 14+21 days, at least according to the code. If they don't then there's something wrong:

Spoiler

    item WildEggs
    {
        HungerChange    =    -10,
        Weight    =    0.1,
        Type    =    Food,
        DisplayName    =    Wild Eggs,
        Icon    =    WildEggs,
        DaysFresh    =    14,
        DaysTotallyRotten    =    21,
        IsCookable    =    TRUE,
        EvolvedRecipe = Stir fry:10;Sandwich:10|Cooked;Burger:10;Salad:10|Cooked;Roasted Vegetables:10;RicePot:10;RicePan:10;PastaPot:10;PastaPan:10,
        FoodType = Egg,
        MinutesToBurn    =    30,
        MinutesToCook    =    10,
        DangerousUncooked    =    TRUE,
        Carbohydrates = 0.32,
        Proteins = 5.55,
        Lipids = 4.18,
        Calories = 63,
        CantBeFrozen = TRUE,
        BadInMicrowave = true,
        GoodHot = true,
        BadCold = true,
    }

 

Edited by Faalagorn

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