Re-balancing of zombie threats
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Currently I do not consider the zombies a threat as they are so easy to avoid even on hardcore mode. I have yet to build an actual base as I really have little reason to keep them out with how easy they are to deal with. There are two main reasons for this: It is easier to attract as much attention as possible and just lead them away than to kill them and when I want to kill them it is as simple as attracting one zombie away from a group at a time until there are no more zombies left. This does not make the game bad. I still enjoy the game but it makes it rather grinding and leaves me unchallenged. Two things I think could solve this: make it so when one zombie's attention is on a human it gets the whole hordes attention and make it so the longer a player is in an area the more zombies it attracts and from further distances. This is just the first solution I could think of so maybe there are better ideas out there, but I think it would help force the player to fort up and consider whether or not they really want an encounter with the undead.

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Without a GOAL, any game is too easy... I mean if all one wants to do is survive, then just avoid.... Which is the only alternative if you have no weapons anyways.

 

I've been playing my stand alone map, and have found it challenging to basically try to rid my hometown of all Zombies set on Insane with 2x multiplier... I don't think there is enough ammo on the map to do the job, but it doesnt matter because i've not come close to meeting the goal...

 

For more of a challenge, how about increasing the [Sound Follow Distance] on the Advanced Zombie options by maybe double, and increasing their Vision, Smell, and Hearing to their perspective max settings on the [Zombie Lore] options ??

 

I kinda like the old school "dumb" zombies that have nothing going for them except numbers... Let us play out Dawn of the Dead Mall type scenarios, where it's basically a war of attrition, planning, and patience...

 

But yeah, short of some other Goal, its not hard to avoid and keep avoiding them.... unless you make them all Sprinter Zombies in the [Speed] option...

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8 hours ago, Crazy ManMan said:

Currently I do not consider the zombies a threat as they are so easy to avoid even on hardcore mode. I have yet to build an actual base as I really have little reason to keep them out with how easy they are to deal with. There are two main reasons for this: It is easier to attract as much attention as possible and just lead them away than to kill them and when I want to kill them it is as simple as attracting one zombie away from a group at a time until there are no more zombies left. This does not make the game bad. I still enjoy the game but it makes it rather grinding and leaves me unchallenged. Two things I think could solve this: make it so when one zombie's attention is on a human it gets the whole hordes attention and make it so the longer a player is in an area the more zombies it attracts and from further distances. This is just the first solution I could think of so maybe there are better ideas out there, but I think it would help force the player to fort up and consider whether or not they really want an encounter with the undead.

Just play sandbox preset 6 months later and change the spread settings for zombies or if you  want you can also increase theyre hearing

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Guys, this isn't a matter of increasing the amount of zombies or making them SUPERMAN. There is nothing in the game settings that addresses the OP's concerns.

 

The issue honestly Crazy ManMan... is that they are zombies. Zombies don't have human thought, they don't have human goals and they don't have strategies. That's why they were so popular for AAA studios for a period of time. You didn't need to make advanced AI systems, just hunters that move to you then animations for attacks. After the initial new-player shock of having to deal with the undead... you just get used to them. They are zamberz, and they may be slightly hard to kill, but don't really need many strategies to beat. Especially when you are an advanced player. Plus with little content to keep you going longer term... you might as well get a house and play housekeeper while your body slowly drains away.

 

The one thing that 7 Days 2 Die has over this game is the 7 day mechanic. During the game you are constantly preparing against an inevitable horde that appears on an accurate timer for a set period of time that you know about. You are always playing against the clock for building, advancing weaponry, developing your skills and exploring. Every few minutes you are looking up at the clock, seeing that "I only have 2 more days until the horde comes". Even at max skills you have to make sure your defenses are good enough for late-game play. Advanced players experiment with how traps work and what's the best thing to use, as well as making their own challenges that still incorporate the 7 day clock if they get a bit bored.

As for PZ... there actually isn't much I can think of for the game that would actually increase the difficulty or long term game-play. However I think destruction would fit the bill... but then again they are just zombies. You can have a zombie slam his face into a normal house brick outer wall and it will probably die of self-inflicted blunt-force trauma faster than the brick wall coming down. Even hordes won't be able to do much against actual real-life construction methods. Throw yourself against a decently made wooden fence, see how much damage you do to it over a day.

 

The other ways games add difficulty is by adding special infected. Ones that can target you from your weaknesses, ones that can break walls, or ones that can do an area attack that renders the safe zone dangerous, with countering mechanics that are in the game. Left4Dead does this really well. Tight corners? Boomers that are countered by knocking them back and shooting from a distance. Need to get a survivor away? Smoker or Jockey, with noises as well as knocking the attack off the players. Player a bit too cocky? Charger and Hunters with direct attack patterns that can be predicted. Chilling too long in an area? Spitters that make acid pools that can be spotted before they spit by good players.

However PZ developers have stated there will be no special infected, so how do you make safe zones unsafe when dealing with a simple AI system that can be beaten by running and noise?

 

I kind of just realized that while writing this... honestly the game isn't ever going to be "more hard" because inevitably you are going to get the NPC update in the future, and will figure out how to either make NPCs so happy they don't want to kill you, or know the best way on how to kill NPCs. We as the players are always going to find the strategy that will work 99.9% of the time.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Crazy ManMan said:

Currently I do not consider the zombies a threat as they are so easy to avoid even on hardcore mode. I have yet to build an actual base as I really have little reason to keep them out with how easy they are to deal with. There are two main reasons for this: It is easier to attract as much attention as possible and just lead them away than to kill them and when I want to kill them it is as simple as attracting one zombie away from a group at a time until there are no more zombies left. This does not make the game bad. I still enjoy the game but it makes it rather grinding and leaves me unchallenged. Two things I think could solve this: make it so when one zombie's attention is on a human it gets the whole hordes attention and make it so the longer a player is in an area the more zombies it attracts and from further distances. 

Just read it again damien... He probably thinks its easy because he can do things like store food easily or make bases but when you play it harder that every horde on every corner with 30 zombies spread high hearing, rare loots, no lights or water, setting migrate to faster so you wont be able to stay in one place, higher zombie spawn, darker nights that you need flashlight that you totally ignored before, no more stacks of axes to fight zombies just a few butterknife and more pushing and stomping....that walking outside the house has a great risk dying from 10 zombies coming on your way just a few seconds after you started the game. That killing one zombie attracts more. Theres literally no threat playing modes other than 6 months or 6 months sanbox with harder settings.. Hardcore s not really hardcore its just the matter of exp you can get and if you have or havent started with a starter kit...

Edited by jamesorbe0

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On 7/7/2018 at 6:01 AM, Damien Darkside said:

Guys, this isn't a matter of increasing the amount of zombies or making them SUPERMAN. There is nothing in the game settings that addresses the OP's concerns.

 

The issue honestly Crazy ManMan... is that they are zombies. Zombies don't have human thought, they don't have human goals and they don't have strategies. That's why they were so popular for AAA studios for a period of time. You didn't need to make advanced AI systems, just hunters that move to you then animations for attacks. After the initial new-player shock of having to deal with the undead... you just get used to them. They are zamberz, and they may be slightly hard to kill, but don't really need many strategies to beat. Especially when you are an advanced player. Plus with little content to keep you going longer term... you might as well get a house and play housekeeper while your body slowly drains away.

 

The one thing that 7 Days 2 Die has over this game is the 7 day mechanic. During the game you are constantly preparing against an inevitable horde that appears on an accurate timer for a set period of time that you know about. You are always playing against the clock for building, advancing weaponry, developing your skills and exploring. Every few minutes you are looking up at the clock, seeing that "I only have 2 more days until the horde comes". Even at max skills you have to make sure your defenses are good enough for late-game play. Advanced players experiment with how traps work and what's the best thing to use, as well as making their own challenges that still incorporate the 7 day clock if they get a bit bored.

As for PZ... there actually isn't much I can think of for the game that would actually increase the difficulty or long term game-play. However I think destruction would fit the bill... but then again they are just zombies. You can have a zombie slam his face into a normal house brick outer wall and it will probably die of self-inflicted blunt-force trauma faster than the brick wall coming down. Even hordes won't be able to do much against actual real-life construction methods. Throw yourself against a decently made wooden fence, see how much damage you do to it over a day.

 

The other ways games add difficulty is by adding special infected. Ones that can target you from your weaknesses, ones that can break walls, or ones that can do an area attack that renders the safe zone dangerous, with countering mechanics that are in the game. Left4Dead does this really well. Tight corners? Boomers that are countered by knocking them back and shooting from a distance. Need to get a survivor away? Smoker or Jockey, with noises as well as knocking the attack off the players. Player a bit too cocky? Charger and Hunters with direct attack patterns that can be predicted. Chilling too long in an area? Spitters that make acid pools that can be spotted before they spit by good players.

However PZ developers have stated there will be no special infected, so how do you make safe zones unsafe when dealing with a simple AI system that can be beaten by running and noise?

 

I kind of just realized that while writing this... honestly the game isn't ever going to be "more hard" because inevitably you are going to get the NPC update in the future, and will figure out how to either make NPCs so happy they don't want to kill you, or know the best way on how to kill NPCs. We as the players are always going to find the strategy that will work 99.9% of the time.

I think it is reasonable that when a zombie sees a survivor it might make a noise, and that noise that might attract the attention of any zombies next to him, meaning we can not single out zombies from a horde one at a time. I also think zombies being attracted from farther and farther away would be alot like the 7 days to die dynamic, but without the stale re-spawn (I always find killing a bunch of zombies so much more satisfying when there is no re-spawn). I do not think they need to be smart, I think they just need to have numbers that mean something. No matter how big a horde is it means nothing if I can single them out one by one without any others noticing it just is a measurement of how long I have to grind, and zombies being led away so easily makes keeping a zombie free base really easy actually. But if zombies stuck together rather than being drawn out one by one and if they are drawn to areas more as players spend more time in them then it would be much harder to just ignore the zombies as they would just eventually make their way back to your base and can not be grind killed away one at a time so easily (and maybe it is not from their intelligence, maybe they are attracted to the smell of the player, or the smell of the corpses, human smell is actually fairly good humans just do not use it to its full potential, tests have shown that if one person walks over a paper coated room another blindfolded person can track where that person has been with just their smell). As long as the radius for how far zombies could be drawn from had no limit this would mean that it would get more challenging later and later into game, as the larger the radius the more zombies it would draw, especially living too close to the mall or prison.

I also agree that a zombie would bash its own brains out before most structures, but a wall of zombies could realistically break down almost any structure, as can be demonstrated by watching videos of mobs and riots where crowds manage to rip down even solid metal bar gates and concrete walls with so many people pushing on them at once (sometimes aided with tools, but not always, sometimes it is just raw human meat weight down the structure). I also think it would make the game better if one zombie simply could not do damage to a well built wall, as then we could just ignore the regular cleanups which can be cumbersome, but would still have to worry about zombies building up over time and then breaking in as hordes rather than as 1 zombie just being annoying.

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And I realize I also forgot to mention that in survivalists in real life one thing that is a constant struggle is the longer you are camped in one site the farther and farther away all the animals move away from your site and the longer you have to walk to go hunting (humans smells, small noises, light from the fire (which can actually be seen from a surprisingly far distance, miles away even in the right conditions), etc all push them to evacuate the area). I think it makes as much sense for the same to be true of zombies but in reverse.

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I agree to a cretin extent.

 

What makes me disagree is the fact that new players (around 10 hours) still struggle with zombies and dont know how to handle them until way later when you realize that divide and conquer tactic works wonders on zombies.

What i would do in my opinion is have something like the Restless zombies mod where at night they just keep wandering around but to change it up if one spots you and gets agitated it could attract the whole group the zombie is linked to. 

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19 hours ago, Blasted_Taco said:

I agree to a cretin extent.

 

What makes me disagree is the fact that new players (around 10 hours) still struggle with zombies and dont know how to handle them until way later when you realize that divide and conquer tactic works wonders on zombies.

What i would do in my opinion is have something like the Restless zombies mod where at night they just keep wandering around but to change it up if one spots you and gets agitated it could attract the whole group the zombie is linked to. 

Or it could also be that they only team up so well in harder or harcore mode, but on easier modes they do not. Or that they start to get agitated more easily the older the world is. So the first week or two they would be standard, but after a month or two they would be much more challenging.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/7/2018 at 5:01 AM, Damien Darkside said:

I kind of just realized that while writing this... honestly the game isn't ever going to be "more hard" because inevitably you are going to get the NPC update in the future, and will figure out how to either make NPCs so happy they don't want to kill you, or know the best way on how to kill NPCs. We as the players are always going to find the strategy that will work 99.9% of the time.

 

Well yeah. Come on man, be realistic here. We're humans, they're AI. Unless the devs keep constantly changing the AI's patterns themselves all of us will eventually figure out how to play it. That doesn't mean it wont be hard. Example, go play an AI in chess on the hardest setting and do that for about five months and yes, you might learn how to game the system a little bit but it'll still be really hard to do.  By hard I'm putting that on a measure of how much do you still lose despite that... 

Edited by MrZombifiedGamer

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