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Axezombie

Crafting skills need to be reworked

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Hello everyone,

 

Firstly I hope my english is not too hard to understand and also hope that most of the stuff I wrote here is not already written somewhere else on this forum.

Maybe what am I going to write about some points is wrong and already in game sooo it's a suggestion posts but also a "questions post"

 

My suggestions are to make some skills more interesting, more important to level up like for example : first aid, farming and more balanced/realistic


 

First aid


 

According to me and a lot of players first aid is useless to level up. From what I've read on the wiki as the skill level increases, the player will be able to treat wounds faster, make better bandages, understand more ailments (don't know what that means) and spot infections, but as a noob in first aid I still treat wounds pretty fast, I know if my wound is infected and I heal very fast, even if I take the malus slow healer my scratches dissapear after 2 days.

So I think that if you're a noob in first aid then applying bandages should take way more time, make it more painful, maybe also make the player more panicked and use more desinfectant than needed or even more use pills than needed (painkillers, antibiotics, vitamins...)

Well you understand what I mean, someone who doesn't know shit about first aid would do a bad job unlike someone with better experience. 


 

It would make first aid way more important to level up (as important as it should be in an apocalypse) I can even do stitches if I'm lvl 0! I doubt random people can do stitches, same with removing bullets, making a splint etc.

So it could be something like that, the more points you've the faster you treat wounds, you heal faster, use less pills, desinfectant... at lvl 0 you can only do bandages and disinfect, at lvl 1 you can do stitches, at lvl 2 you can make splints, at 3 remove bullets...

So now if it becomes an important skill to level up we need ways to level it easier and I suggest to be able to train on dead bodies, as simple as that.

Some of you will say it's unfair or way too hard because if you're lvl 0 and need stitches or a splint you're basically dead but that's normal, that's how important this skill would be in an apocalypse and to be honest, in game it's kinda hard to get fractures and stitches if you're careful, zombies don't hurt you this much, the only way to have fractures is to fall, something that never happens if you're a minimum careful and stitches are only caused if you pass through a broken window and if you get a serious accident with a car, so once again be careful and you'll be alright


 

Farming


 

According to the wiki leveling up farming only gives you more informations on plants (maybe I'm wrong and it does more but that's what the wiki says) the thing is that when I'm at lvl 0 I already have all the informations I need.

I know when the plant has a disease and I can know what to use to treat it since when I right click on “treat” the games automatically indicates me what to use to treat it (probably a bug).

I know when to water it and how much, it's written : thirsty, fine, well watered

I know the growing phases, seedling, young, seed bearing.

 

So what's the point to level up this skill? I already have all informations needed! They're just not as clear as numbers.

 

Here's how it should be :

lvl 0 : you don't know anything! No way to tell if your plant is very young or seed bearing, no way to tell if it needs more water or less, no way to tell if there is a disease or not, no way to tell the plant's health

Lvl 1 : you know if you can harvest but you don't know if it has seeds, you kinda now if it has enough water to survive so it would be either thirsty or fine but can't tell if it's well watered, you know if there is a disease but you can't tell which one and for the health same way as the water level


 

lvl 2 : you know if it has seeds, you've full information about water level, you can identify the disease it has, and you know how healthy it is.


 

As your level increase you'd get better crops for example little tomatoes when you're a noob and big tomatoes when you're a good farmer so it could be Hunger: -5 then Hunger: -10 (for example) and you would get less crops and less seeds but for the moment it's already linked with the plant's health so my idea is that you would get healthier plants when you're a good farmer


 

Planting seeds should give XP and also watering and treating diseases because a farmer's job is not just harvesting, so I don't see why only this task should give you XP.


 

Before saying it would be too easy to level up just think a bit about it. Of course you could plant a lot of stuff to gain XP easily but what's gonna happen if you do that? You're gonna need to use more water, you're gonna spend more time to take care of your plants and when you'll harvest you'll need to get a way to store that food in a working fridge/freezer else it's all gonna be a waste. To make it clear you'll gain more XP but it's going to take more of your time and more ressources then it's not going to be OP and after all if you want to be a good farmer you need practice, right? Then it makes sense.

 

Talking about OP ways to level up skills carpentry has some OP ways to level up... *cough* sawing logs *cough*

 

Carpentry

It's a very useful skill but a bit too easy to level up, sawing logs will give you XP forever and it's a bit dumb in my opinion. Sure sawing logs as a noob and making them like planks give you XP but can we say the same thing about an expert?

My idea is that some craft shouldn't give you XP at some point because it's ridiculous to become an expert in carentry just by sawing logs.

For example it could give XP for lvl 1-2 then nothing or maybe it would decrease the amount of XP profressively. ICrafting more complicated stuff would give you more XP like chairs, tables, bookcases would give more XP than floors, shelves, wood signs...

To resume in one sentence : you don't become a carpenter just by sawing logs


 

Trapping

 

I don't really know what a better level in trapping does, except that you need some levels to craft better traps I think that's all, once again maybe I'm wrong.
 

At lvl 1 (not talking about lvl 0 because I always start lvl 1 to be able to make stick traps, the best traps according to me) I can catch as much animals as lvl 4, talking only about birds cause I never tried other animals and I didn't find more informations about what leveling this skill gives.
 

So what's the point to level up this skill? Maybe you catch more animals? At lvl 1 I feel like I have something like 70-80% of success and at lvl 2 90-100% way too much for a beginner but anyway as I said I catch only birds because they're the easiest to catch making other traps almost useless so maybe I'm wrong about how easy it is to catch animals


As your level increase the traps you craft should be more efficient : weak trap, strong trap, very strong trap, same as carpentry, a lvl 4 wall is stronger than a lvl 2 wall

Crafting traps should give XP, once again it would work like carpentry, you build stuff you get XP maybe you'll tell me “yeah but trapping is not just about crafting traps” and you're right it's also about finding the best place where to put it and use a good bait but one of the most important part is still the way you build your trap so it would make sense to gain XP by crafting them and it would give more XP for more complicated traps.

 

Talking about baits I guess a noob wouldn't know how much food to give to bait an animal so the more experienced you're the less food you'll use for baits.

 

Metal working

 

Nice skill but after all it's just carpentry version 2.0, I don't know anyone using it because carpentry is already enough, makes more useful stuff and it's way easier to lvl up so why use metal working? To make stronger defences? Wooden walls are already enough according to me.

Okay now it's a bit more useful for cars but as far as I know we can only use it to repair trunks...


We should be able to craft vehicles parts, like doors, hoods (hoods are destroyed in seconds so yeah that's would be useful, I don't even get how you can destroy your trunk) etc but also reinforce vehicles with steel sheets or even make vehicles more efficient to kill zombies, Dawn of The Dead style!


Well this has been requested probably a thousand times already but it's to make you understand how metalworking could be much more than another carpentry skill, like also crafting nails, axes, knives... well the stuff we should've been able to do with the smith skill that has been removed... What a shame...


Another thing, destroyed vehicles should be able to be “removed” by dissasembling them with a blow torch and then make a good way to get metal, it has been said in another post but it still has its place here.


 

Electrcity

 

Well not much to say about this skill, if people don't use it it's because it's too hard to level up and I don't really have suggestions about it to level it easier except those :

By fixing generators and hot-wiring cars, maybe get some XP also by removing car batteries


 

Foraging

 

Foraging is the most boring skill and I think you all agree with me on that, but how could we make it less boring? Well like it worked before foraging, I'm talking about bushes with berries. That's right, before foraging we had bushes working as containers and we could harvest them and I think it was nicer, same thing could be done with twigs and branches, you go to a tree then grab branches and twigs around it and for stones we already have stones on the floor so why not being able to pick them up? Same thing for mushrooms, a container, grape leaves on trees when you've the right lvl to find them, same with eggs and insects on bushes or trees etc


So yeah you get what I mean, containers to find (with random locations) instead of just right clicking on floor and waiting, noobs in this skill would still find less things than experimented ones, a bit like how the lucky trait works.

I realize how much harder it would be to make this instead of right clicking but it would be way more fun for the player, well... as fun as foraging in real life could be...


 

That's all I've to say and it's already a lot, cooking is fine except for XP gain, making a salad should give you more XP than cutting some bread for example... and mechanics is really nice, nicely balanced about what skill levels do and the way to win XP except one thing, if I'm not mistaken removing a battery gives you as much XP as removing suspensions, kinda absurd, right? But it's not completely done so no need to talk a lot about it for now

 

Thanks for reading this post


 


 

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I pretty much agree with all of your points, only thing I really don't won't to see is metalworking end in smithing stuff like nails, axe heads, ... This just doesn't fit PZ and if they really do implement it I hope there will be a setting to disable it.

 

As for trapping: To give the levels more sense I suggest a system similiar to farming. The higher the level the more info you get about the place you are about to setup your trap. So your character would read the tracks of this spot and will get better with each level at it.

 

EDIT: I really really really hope, that TIS reads this and considers the changes proposed here. Would make MP way more diverse and fun.

 

 

Edited by Dr_Cox1911

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Thank you very much for your feedback and receiving such compliments from the Dr Cox is like a life achievement :)

 

Ah yes I didn't think about that for trapping, it would be very useful indeed.

 

About smithing I don't really get what annoys you with that. We can craft very hard stuff to do in real life like barrels, artisanal bombs, radios etc so it doesn't feel like nails would be impossible to make or maybe it gives a medieval feeling and that's what annoying you?

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19 minutes ago, Axezombie said:

About smithing I don't really get what annoys you with that. We can craft very hard stuff to do in real life like barrels, artisanal bombs, radios etc so it doesn't feel like nails would be impossible to make or maybe it gives a medieval feeling and that's what annoying you?

For one it's the medieval and minecraft flair that this would bring into the game. The other thing is: the average joe wouldn't be able to do it. As for the stuff you mention: I don't like the appearance of the barrels either, but in my imagination it's more a placeholder for something really easy. Pretty much everybody would be able to collect rainwater with almost every ordinary item in real life. I'm not a fan of the bombs either and for radios: would limit this to way higher skill levels, but electrical knowledge is way more common these days than knowledge about smithing. I know many electricians (I even studied electrotechnic myself), but I really think that only a very small percentage of the average citizen would know how to build a kinda oldschool furnace to smelt iron (even the guys working in smelting probably wouldn't know how to smelt without the modern machinery).

 

EDIT: I'm by the way totally fine with this if it is completely optional. I do undestand why people would want this, it's just not my cup of tea.

Edited by Dr_Cox1911

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AFAIK average joe theory dont work with new lvl system. I know that most of us dont know shit about smelting , smithing etc. Most of us cant build a stairs , areosol bombs, metal walls, fix car etc. Going back to medieval after few years after apocalypse is nothing unreal. My RL plan for Zapocalypse would be sword and shield not guns etc. I agree that blacksmithing needs to be hard and uncommon and thats why we have lvl system for all skills - just make it lvl 8-10 and PZ wont turn into Minecraft 2.0

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I'm more of the opinion that the leveling system needs to be scrapped, along with the concept of gaining access to recipes with said level. Allowing characters to find recipes, try them, and get an item of a specific quality (or fail) would be more fitting with the setting that's chosen. Though I suppose leveling could be hidden behind the concept of traits.

 

I really see recycling and repurposing of modern objects as more integral to the setting than medieval skills. 

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11 hours ago, Zorak said:

AFAIK average joe theory dont work with new lvl system. I know that most of us dont know shit about smelting , smithing etc. Most of us cant build a stairs , areosol bombs, metal walls, fix car etc. Going back to medieval after few years after apocalypse is nothing unreal. My RL plan for Zapocalypse would be sword and shield not guns etc. I agree that blacksmithing needs to be hard and uncommon and thats why we have lvl system for all skills - just make it lvl 8-10 and PZ wont turn into Minecraft 2.0

Mine would be spears, not the cheap quick one we have now out of branches, but carefully crafted ones... maybe with stone or metal tips to pierce through skulls (like the jabbing knifes... but with a reach).

 

It would also involved going far north where I know the population density is extremely sparse (for context, we have the least populated city on earth with 0,5 habitant/km2... this means that vast expanse where there are no city are probably devoid of people for many km at a time until you stumble on a mine or lumber facility). I hate fish, but I'd probably learn to love it in time ;)

 

As for stairs, they are fairly easy to do : take at least 2, ideally 3 very large spruce plank (ideally 2x10 or 2x12) and put square grooves angles at regular interval in it, tilt those planks 45 degree and place planks on the bottom of each of those grooves and you got a perfectly (yet crude) working stairs. Now it's going to vibrate a lot when you go up and down but it'll hold even if you move a fridge up/or down. Ideally you should fix it to at least one wall structure nearby (made with 2x4 @ 16") so it's more stable... but unless you're having a horde marching up/down the stairs it won't make any difference except comfort.

 

Another very crude design would be to use log(s) notched in the same way... probably more stable since they are thicker then 2".

 

Here's an example of a very conceptually simple stairs (single middle support with lateral anchor, albeit a wider middle support then 2"). It seems to be roughly anchored at each 16" as would a normal stair be.

 

Résultats de recherche d'images pour « stairs »

 

Edit : I have the chance of having a dad that has a woodworking hobby and parents that spent most of my adult life renovating and/or building houses... having helped a little I guess I'd have some sort of a trait in carpentry... something like hobbyist carpentry maybe.

Edited by MyTJ

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14 hours ago, Dr_Cox1911 said:

I pretty much agree with all of your points, only thing I really don't won't to see is metalworking end in smithing stuff like nails (...)

Sorry for the snip, please people read the full thing.

 

I only wanted to react to nails. Sure, custom made nails would not look like the one we use today... but nails go way back!

 

They use to look like this (wide thick, yet thin strip of metal with a slightly wider head and a crude point) :

Résultats de recherche d'images pour « clou de forge »

 

We've found quite a lot of those in an over 100 yo house (more like the first one on the left), who knows what they'd look like a few more centuries ago :)

 

Edit : One more example of crude forge nails...

Résultats de recherche d'images pour « clou de forge »

Edited by MyTJ

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1 hour ago, MyTJ said:

I only wanted to react to nails. Sure, custom made nails would not look like the one we use today... but nails go way back!

Yep, and I know how old nails look like (my grandma still has barns build with them), but pretty much noone in this day and age would be able to smelt iron without fancy equipment (and even then, modern smelters are kinda like a atomreactor to control).

 

If you have the molten iron, sure, it isn't that hard to craft crude nails, but smelting iron isn't as easy as it sounds.

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So long as blacksmithing nails requires finding the actual tools to make them (maybe a rare find on a farm to imply someone had  a hobby), require a bunch of trial and error, and have a unique item, then I really don't care about those. I still think it'd be easier just to cut cleats from sheet metal, though. Smelting  itself doesn't make sense for nails, as you'd just just ruin the temper of the metal. They're forged (not poured), as in hammered out, of appropriate iron stock then the head is made with a header.  It doesn't make sense for getting a stock of iron, either, given there should be plenty of iron in a game that's trying to be realistic . . .  

 

Same applies for planks in game . . . Really could just use a lumber yard to liberate and ransack dressed lumber from, not to mention tearing them out of houses. I really don't like that the game forces the primitive option of going out into the woods, knocking down a tree, then using a handsaw to get the equivalent. Though it could certainly be an option, later in game, it'd be nice if it were dressed up a little (e.g. using an axe, wedges, and hammer to split rough planks; handsaw or other tool to dress them).

 

PZ doesn't really know what side of the realism fence it sits on. Some things are way too rare, some systems are way too simple . . . . yet others are deeply complex. For example, an Engine is just an "engine" with "engine parts." There's no radiator, water, oil, or a few other parts that can normally be damaged in a collision. Yet there's three kinds of seats for each class of vehicle. Same discrepancies applies to many things and these flaws, I don't think, give license to just add more. (e.g. melting down forks, knives, and axes to one-step "smelt" fully working bullets.)

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7 hours ago, EnigmaGrey said:

So long as blacksmithing nails requires finding the actual tools to make them (maybe a rare find on a farm to imply someone had  a hobby), require a bunch of trial and error, and have a unique item, then I really don't care about those. I still think it'd be easier just to cut cleats from sheet metal, though. Smelting  itself doesn't make sense for nails, as you'd just just ruin the temper of the metal. They're forged (not poured), as in hammered out, of appropriate iron stock then the head is made with a header.  It doesn't make sense for getting a stock of iron, either, given there should be plenty of iron in a game that's trying to be realistic . . .  

 

Same applies for planks in game . . . Really could just use a lumber yard to liberate and ransack dressed lumber from, not to mention tearing them out of houses. I really don't like that the game forces the primitive option of going out into the woods, knocking down a tree, then using a handsaw to get the equivalent. Though it could certainly be an option, later in game, it'd be nice if it were dressed up a little (e.g. using an axe, wedges, and hammer to split rough planks; handsaw or other tool to dress them).

 

PZ doesn't really know what side of the realism fence it sits on. Some things are way too rare, some systems are way too simple . . . . yet others are deeply complex. For example, an Engine is just an "engine" with "engine parts." There's no radiator, water, oil, or a few other parts that can normally be damaged in a collision. Yet there's three kinds of seats for each class of vehicle. Same discrepancies applies to many things and these flaws, I don't think, give license to just add more. (e.g. melting down forks, knives, and axes to one-step "smelt" fully working bullets.)

I agree that it would be easier to make crude fittings and/or nails by cutting metal sheets and/or scraps (or filling them).

 

Interesting point on taking planks out of houses, especialy since some of them would already be of the proper dimensions for whatever you want to do (e.g. the stairs support I spoke of earlier). One way I think that could be implemented, would be in a system akin to moving furniture : you could deconstruct in some sort of kit sections and/or whole structures that could be reconstructed elsewhere.  Planks and unusable wood could then be salvaged from that kit.

 

As for your example of melting forks and the like to one-step "smelt" fully working bullets, that is indeed a good example of the extreme that should not be met. I agree that some trial and error would and should be involved in skills (especialy more complex ones like eventual forging)... but in the case of bullets, the errors might be deadly with no or little way to test their safety beside using them. What I mean here is i'd never take the risk of making makeshift bullets that might criticaly fail while I try to fire them...

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12 hours ago, Dr_Cox1911 said:

Yep, and I know how old nails look like (my grandma still has barns build with them), but pretty much noone in this day and age would be able to smelt iron without fancy equipment (and even then, modern smelters are kinda like a atomreactor to control).

 

If you have the molten iron, sure, it isn't that hard to craft crude nails, but smelting iron isn't as easy as it sounds.

I agree that most people are now too reliant on simply buying things rather then making them themself, however, there is plenty of example of makeshift forges if you take a couple of minutes searching the internet. Those people you see in video or writting articles about it might be able to do it, however (not factoring 1993 vs 2018) once electricity shutdown it'd be very hard to do for the rest of us unless we find encyclopedia and other relevant reading material pointing us in the right direction OR we have a general relevant scientific/technical background (traits).

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's easy or that I could do it. I'd manage carpentry well enough but I'm not sure (without having tried it) that I'd manage smelting. I'd probably resort to using ropes and such to make structures rather then nails.

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Most of this information wasn't around back then ... Practical jigsaw projects, lead figures, masonry, plaster castibg, and woodworking (carvings, toys) , some welding, were what the older people of my childhood did. This was the stuff you found in thise encyclopedias.

 

Not backyard smelting with a shop vaccume to explode watermelons ..

 

Our access to information today really seems to cloud our memory of the past 

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I agree there is a vast difference between the level of information available between 1993 and 2018, however, I remember either reading things myself or seeing my dad read and/or watch shows like this old house and the like.

 

Information was scarcer, yet still available.

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5 hours ago, MyTJ said:

I agree there is a vast difference between the level of information available between 1993 and 2018, however, I remember either reading things myself or seeing my dad read and/or watch shows like this old house and the like.

 

Information was scarcer, yet still available.

I'm not against home renovation skills. I'm against restarting the industrial revolution as one person, or easily doing things only the rare person was interested in back then.

 

Blacksmithing, ferrierng, wheel wrighting are largely dead skills, killed off by the rise of the assembly line and automation. I wouldn't be surprised if the lone enthusiast existed in a ratio of one in hundreds of thousands for something like backyard smelting and metallurgy. Practical skills like putting up a wall or changing a tire, or even cutting out sheet metal are more acceptable.

 

Finding iron stock and beating out nails is reasonable. Making the iron from a lump of ore or from forks and tin cans is really pushing it. Making it act like magic (forks, axes, and fence rail -- workable metal -- instant ammo) as tis almost did with metalworking would greatly shift the tone of a game thats already confused and sprawling. That makes sense in minecrat fantasy setting or cdda's SciFi future, but not in 1993 

 

This isn't on the time scale of Earth Abides or Land of The Dead(?). Even a hundred hours in game only amounts to months passing, not years or decades.

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For the farming aspect, if you get experience just for putting seeds in the ground, seeds need to become a lot more rare, and the xp needs to be something like .1 per seed or so. Nothing requires the player to invest in all the seeds they plant, and seeds are so plentiful, even on extremely rare settings, that letting some crops go to waste just to build farming xp is not really a penalty anyways.

 

I think it's better that you get xp after successfully growing plants. It makes sense that your character learns what they are doing right and the reward comes after the work involved.

Edited by Kurogo

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On ‎2018‎-‎05‎-‎19 at 8:32 PM, EnigmaGrey said:

I'm not against home renovation skills. I'm against restarting the industrial revolution as one person, or easily doing things only the rare person was interested in back then.

 

Blacksmithing, ferrierng, wheel wrighting are largely dead skills, killed off by the rise of the assembly line and automation. I wouldn't be surprised if the lone enthusiast existed in a ratio of one in hundreds of thousands for something like backyard smelting and metallurgy. Practical skills like putting up a wall or changing a tire, or even cutting out sheet metal are more acceptable.

 

Finding iron stock and beating out nails is reasonable. Making the iron from a lump of ore or from forks and tin cans is really pushing it. Making it act like magic (forks, axes, and fence rail -- workable metal -- instant ammo) as tis almost did with metalworking would greatly shift the tone of a game thats already confused and sprawling. That makes sense in minecrat fantasy setting or cdda's SciFi future, but not in 1993 

 

This isn't on the time scale of Earth Abides or Land of The Dead(?). Even a hundred hours in game only amounts to months passing, not years or decades.

 

I understand your point and to some extent I agree, after all, I said earlier :

 

On ‎2018‎-‎05‎-‎18 at 4:06 PM, MyTJ said:

I agree that most people are now too reliant on simply buying things rather then making them themself (...)

 

Thus, I agree it's something most people did not do in the early 90s prior to the widespread use of internet and "do-it yourself videos". I also agree that this process is by no mean magical and extremely complex.

 

However, I've made a quick search for books that pre-date 1993 on the topic of smelting in particular (same reasoning as follow would apply to other rarer skills).

 

It took some time because it seems most books on the topic where published after 2000, however I was able to trace at least one to 1979 before I stopped searching. There may be more, but I don't aim at doing an exhaustive research. Disclaimer though, it's a book from two Canadian authors, so unless there are more like this one from American authors, I beleive it would impact on it's availability.

 

For reference :

The Iron Blast Furnace - Theory and Practice

J.G. PEACEY and W.G. DAVENPORT

1st Edition • 1st January 1979

Copyright © 1979 Elsevier Ltd.

ISBN 978-0-08-023218-8

 

So, don't get me wrong on this : the fact that litterature exist does not imply that (a) it's available, (b) it's understood or understandable by most people, (c) that simply reading it will grant immediate knowledge of a pratical skill.

 

What I'm saying is it's a possible source of information for a very lenghty self-teaching that would imply practical exercices with trial and error.

 

What I suggest, if and only if such skills are added, they would require : (a) an extremely rare (thus expensive) trait to know the basics already or (b) one of a few traits that allow self-teaching by reading technical/scientific materials and experimentation (this would be an extremely lenghty process AND require base materials for experimentation with risks of critical failure). For character without any scientific background or self-learning traits, it would be impossible or near impossible to learn such skills. Those later would have a greater chance of critical failure that could result in injury, death and/or spreading fire.

 

So to sum it up, if new rarer skills are introduce, if any, they should be locked behind extremely rare hobby as you said OR be unlocked through finding rare technical/scientific litterature and taking a significant amount of time reading and experimenting to even grasp the basics.

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1 hour ago, MyTJ said:

 

(rarer skills) 

My two cents on this would be that if it's a rare skill, it's probably far off from being a core game mechanic, and if it's tangential to the core game, it's probably better left to the modding community.

-Random internet guy sticking his nose where it need not go

Edited by trombonaught

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2 minutes ago, trombonaught said:

My two cents on this would be that if it's a rare skill, it's probably far off from being a core game mechanic, and if it's tangential to the core game, it's probably better left to the modding community.

-Random internet guy sticking his nose where it need not go

I agree in part that it's "probably far off from being a core game mechanic", however I'm not certain that it need to be left indefinitely to the modding community.

 

At some point it's not impossible to add multiple layer of skill complexity : some easily learn by performing normal tasks (like we have now), some of varying degree to add depth and complexity (as well as long term goals).

 

That being said, I agree that it's not a priority and probably best left to modders (for now).

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