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I remember when sims first implemented snow and you walked outside and it was like "Oooooo pretty" xDxD lol. In project zomboid i think it would look amazing. Not crazy amounts of snow but just a blanket of snow to show that its middle of winter.. I can just imagine you walk outside and its all white with lil snow flakes falling and then you see thousands of lil footprints... and you know there a zombie horde near by. Your cold n there zombie footprints but you need food.. =)

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Hm. I'll look that up. Last winter we didn't really get much of anything down here in middle Tennessee, but the winter before that was pretty harsh. Probably got between 2 and 4 feet if you added up the total snow for the whole winter season.


I remember that particular winter well, and always will. Not every day you're cutting up trees for firewood and your pickup slides down an embankment, through a fence, over some undergrowth, and into an old family graveyard.  (tophat)

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Muldraugh gets an average of about six inches a year last time I checked. This idea has been iterated many times, and I'll say what I always do:

If they're aiming even the slightest for realistic climate, implementing snow would be silly.

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I doubt the devs are going to spend the time creating assets that would never be used in the 'stock' game. It could certainly be modded. Devs have stated that they do want snow, though, so it will likely happen regardless of realism.

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Muldraugh gets an average of about six inches a year last time I checked. This idea has been iterated many times, and I'll say what I always do:

If they're aiming even the slightest for realistic climate, implementing snow would be silly.

 

Come on.

 

Who would really care about them putting snow in muldraugh besides the nitpickers and actual muldraugh citizens? ^ _ ^

 

Besides, why wouldn't it be easier just to implement snow during winter and class it out by, let's say, 5 levels. And in muldraugh and surrounding cities, it never goes, let's say, above 1st level.

 

With upcoming map making tools it'd be much easier for mappers to make THEIR cities get as much snow as they want, and the game will still stay relatively realistic when we'll be talking about muldraugh. I just seriously don't want an entire (full of potential) season get overlooked just because developers picked a bad (In relative term) place for a setting. (fedora)

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I don't get why some people say ( don't add it cos they/we don't get allot of snow there) But you still have winters and still probably get SOME snow, enough to show its winter, if anything add it for the atmosphere of the game, cold and gray outside with blood all over the walls... sounds dark? lol.... Opens the door for other things = your character could become unhappy so you need the chocolate for the dark cold days lol. Plus i kinda agree on the person above, im not to sure why the devs have based the game on a certain place, Take that away and you open the doors for what ever you want to develop, wildlife, weather, other foods, anything you can think of really. To say we cant add this to the game when there is a chance that it could improve the game but just because *its not there or doesn't happen in the real location* we can't add it, has a chance of hindering the game. (and just before some people start hating on me the only reason im  voicing my opinion on this is because Projectzomboid is my favourite zombie game of all time, Maybe even making its way to my fave games of all time)  Random generated maps would blow my mind in this game but i know that wont happen :( ..... Do it as a expansion ;) id totes pay hard penny's for that lol. A knew world every time.... *drules*

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The reason they based it on the place is the same reason they will never release a random generated map. They want this game to be lovingly hand crafted and they want it to make sense. One of the most important things about PZ is that it gives a sense of immersion, and it can't do that if it breaks its own rules constantly.

 

I'm not saying they can't add snow; I just said it will require a lot of reasonable suspension of disbelief from the player, which isn't a good thing.

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am i right in thinking you can still hand craft the map  but still have the buildings randomly placed on that map?

Im sure there are games out there that do this were they can hand craft the building but the map just generates diff every time, say the corner shop would be in the place of the petrol station,

 

Sure there would be a smart way to still keep everything hand crafter and immerse but also make ever play through exciting and fresh when you cant just run to your fave safe house every time you start a new game.

 

Would also then open doors for sandbox options *start a map in the north or south, which would change every way how you play the game with farming and such*

 

I know it wont happen its just a dream. Back on topic... snow lol... not allot of snow but snow xD

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I'm not saying they can't add snow; I just said it will require a lot of reasonable suspension of disbelief from the player, which isn't a good thing.

 

I can't agree with this. I live in West Texas, on the edge of the desert, and we still get snow on a yearly basis. I grew up in Nashville, not far from Kentucky at all, and I remember having white winters every year. The further north you go the more of a chance you get for snow. If it is natural to get snow in west Texas on a yearly basis, and if my own experience with the region Muldraugh resides in gets a good amount of snow consistently every year, then having snow in Project Zomboid is completely within reason.

 

Now, one thing that would take away from this immersion is having it snow as frequently as it rains in Project Zomboid. Having grown up in Tennessee, where it rained often enough, it sure as hell didn't rain as much as Project Zomboid suggests. Muldraigh area gets upwards to 50" of rainfall annually, but still not as it seems in the game. As far as snowfall, Muldraugh is roughly 35 miles southwest of Louisville, which actually gets closer to 12.5" of snow annually.

 

The weather system should get snow, but for immersion sake, both the rain and snow should be made more rare.

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If you read my post, you'd see that Muldraugh averages only 6" of snow a year. I can cite a direct source for that when I get home if you'd like.

Sure, it snows in Muldraugh, but doesn't typically accumulate. It wouldn't be worth programming snow jut for it to snow once or twice a year and have no effect on the player.

Sorry bit that's just the facts =\

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Alright, the source I got the 12" from was apparently outdated or not accurate. I found a more accurate source which also agrees with your 6". A couple of things to consider though. This is a game, not a sim, so having it 100% accurate to a real location is amiss in my opinion. If your talking realism, we eat and drink too much. In a REAL survival situation, we'd all become light eaters, even if we didn't want to, and wouldn't suffer such detrimental effects so quickly and frequently. From your 'realism' debate rain needs to be changed too.

 

Let's be honest, the whole concept of fighting zombies isn't real. It comes from the movies. In a real zombie survival situation few of us would really go toe to toe with zombies, at least with a baseball bat or hammer, and when we did it would be under extreme situations. Of course this is a topic for another thread and not really important in my opinion. It rains more in Project Zomboid's Muldraugh than it does in Kentucky's Muldraugh, therefore having it snow fairly frequently in Project Zomboid's Muldraugh seems pretty realistic and completely believable.

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I'm not arguing that things shouldn't be given up for the sake of gameplay. If, again, you read my previous posts I even specifically said that =D

My only intent was to educate people on how it was realistically so a good balance of realism and gameplay can be struck.

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As far as I'm concerned the rain was built in with the real muldraugh weather in mind, taken from some weather website for 2012's (I think?) weather that has happened there.

 

About the whole "realism over fun" thing. We all here are playing Project Zomboid - Zombie Outbreak Survival game (Take note I didn't put "simulation" there). -Survival- means the game is about survival, it means the game has a shit ton of ways to kill you, and your main point is to prevent that from happening.

 

Why do people consider "Survival" - fun? Because of the thrill that something out there is ought to kill you, or a feeling that if you stay at one place for too long you will eventually die and are forced to move/scavenge constantly. There is a SHIT TON of things you can think of in a survival game, but if you put too much, the game stops being fun. If you ignore the original point of the game for too much again (adding stuff that doesn't contribute to -survival-) or lazy out on some interesting feature just to get people entertained/have fun - it stops being a survival game.

 

Indie Stone is aiming for a golden middle in the two "survival" and "fun" aspects. Because survival just can't be all "fun", just as equally all "fun" isn't about "survival". We have to look at "Snow" from two perspectives.

 

-What fun does a graphically added snow brings when and if it gets implemented?

 

-Is it really neccesary to graphically add snow when "cold-hot" moodlets that exist already do fine job of killing you if not taken care of, and IRL it doesn't snow in Muldraugh as much to even bother adding it in?

 

Those are, in my opinion, questions we should really discuss.

 

For me, I stand on the side of "We should add it". Why? There are numerous reasons, or rather, features, that could go along just fine. First - Tracking, both animals and humans, it's easier in winter. When someone bleeds it's much easier to notice red blood drops on the ground than in the summer. The footprints are also much more noticeable. I'd imagine you would spend twice more time tracking that deer in The Last of Us if it happened at summer, and not winter. Snow is also a GOOD SOURCE OF GATHERING WATER IN REAL LIFE. You don't have to build wooden barrels when all you have to do is gather a couple of buckets and go collect as much snow as you can, then boil it at home to filter it later. Winter adds so much new to the "survival" aspect of the game it is ridicoulus to think of avoiding adding it in a survival game.

 

The only pro I see with adding snow in is a ton of additional art work required for this season. When it begins to snow, obviously you'd have to change textures of grass to white, rooftops also can't stay perfectly clean... In all, it might take some time for developers to include it, but do you think it's worth it? For now, the game really is focused around getting as much fun out of short-term survival (I'm talking about 2-3 months maximum), but once it gets long-term, it's just a repetitive construction/resource management without much eye candy that may catch your eye. The only thing you can do for many in-game months on is explore rare locations for some items, but after that, it's just base-building/fortifying, and avoiding hordes of zombies.

 

And winter isn't even "quick" to compare it to the crazy suggestions like "chaos on day 1". It sure does requires a lot of scripting, but that one is prolonged for good 3 months in the game, and doesn't require you to write many lines just for something a player will see for 1 in game day. There will also be a reason for players to want to play for long-term, as right now it's just a "main score/who survives for longest."

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Those are good points Leo , but you could make the exact same points about adding snow to a tropical forest on the equator or a desert. It will always feel wrong to me, but it might well add enough to the game to be worth it.

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