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Patch Regular Branch someday ?

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Regular branch is in 38.30 since i can't remember when (probably late august, early september ?).

 

I know not that much/new has been added since (as all the new stuff in implemented in beta vehicles).

 

I see the bug tracker with a bit of a list of things reported and marked as "fixed" but still in da game... Report something means you have to read 20 thread to just verify it wasnt alrdy reported (and fixed...) ; it's disheartening (if that means i thk it means) and demotivating...

 

I don't know how tricky it is to make an update on Steam, but for godsake... Could it be possible to make a quick update to correct these bugs plz ? (unless, once again, it's really so tricky devs side on Steam to do so, in which case, i would appreciate to know it ; ty).

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9 minutes ago, Patrick H said:

Honestly, i just wish they merged the vehicle branch with the regular branch already.

 

You dont want that. Our server had to ditch the vehicle branch due to some rather damaging bugs we encountered using simple mods like morebuild. At least, not until they fix things like that. 

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26 minutes ago, Patrick H said:

Honestly, i just wish they merged the vehicle branch with the regular branch already.

 

As FinestHops says, i also thk Vehicles need some more luv before going wide public (speaking from what i read in the Mondo... Thursdo... "DayoftheweekDoid").

 

But near 6 month w/o updates/debug patches on the regular public branch feels annoying.

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For sure though, the main branch needs some updates. There are still bugs. However, I think their ultimate goal is to fully concentrate on the vehicle branch so that it can become the main branch as soon as possible. Once this happens, it opens the door for them to start working on the always requested animations and NPCs. Not sure which of those will come first though. Kinda the chicken and the egg sort of scenario. 

 

 

What I would really like to see happening though is for them to sit there, really get the input of modders and modded server communities, listen to the issues posed by certain mods and with with the community to better facilitate a community that seems like its in the majority. I dont mean go out of the way to fix mods but take morebuild for example. Maybe make a community post as to what changes were made that caused it or something. I dunno. As I see it, mods are keeping the game alive. 

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22 minutes ago, FinestHops said:
Name             Current Players 30-Day Avg. 30-Day Gain 30-Day % Gain
Project Zomboid   462 602.1 -58.0 -8.79%

 

 

I mean.... they gotta do something. 

that graph shows a distinct pattern, they gain they lose, never actually growing in the end.. 

 

I've stopped playing til veh 36 update, cant stand relogging to correct bugs

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59 minutes ago, FinestHops said:

 

You dont want that. Our server had to ditch the vehicle branch due to some rather damaging bugs we encountered using simple mods like morebuild. At least, not until they fix things like that. 

Yeah, that and the vehicle branch needs a lot of performance improvements before that happens since it runs quite a bit worse than the stable build.

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2 hours ago, agreubill said:

I don't know how tricky it is to make an update on Steam, but for godsake... Could it be possible to make a quick update to correct these bugs plz ? (unless, once again, it's really so tricky devs side on Steam to do so, in which case, i would appreciate to know it ; ty).

Well, as far as I'm aware, it's not just on the devs of the game. For 7 Days To Die, to release A16, it took a couple months for Steam to even approve of their patch/release. Same for Trove.

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Well, as far as I'm aware, it's not just on the devs of the game. For 7 Days To Die, to release A16, it took a couple months for Steam to even approve of their patch/release. Same for Trove.

 

For what i see on the steam frontpage of 7D2D ; 08/31 for patch 16.3 => 10/27 for patch 16.4. Roughly 2 months for the whole development, implantation & steam approval (not 2 months for approval only at that point), yes... I won't exhume the whole patchnotes to see how deep are the change btw the 2 patches, but well...

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1 hour ago, agreubill said:

 

As FinestHops says, i also thk Vehicles need some more luv before going wide public (speaking from what i read in the Mondo... Thursdo... "DayoftheweekDoid").

 

But near 6 month w/o updates/debug patches on the regular public branch feels annoying.

The last update for build 38 was released on November 22nd. There's no easy or practical way to take fixes out of one build and put them in another, now that we're focused on the vehicle branch.  That's the sort of thing that leads to building 38  being such a tangled mess in the first place.

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Original release date for 38 is more October 05th ; it add a lot of new stuff (flies, corpse disposal with graves, Riverside, upstairs lvl fading to name a few), some of them (flies & lvl fading mostly) causing a lot of trouble after release.

 

So, near 2 months of turmoils follows. "A tangled mess", as you said... But, you'll have to agree with me the vision thing was not so easy & clean to implement...

 

I don't actually speak of adding something new to the game, but really cleaning up various bugs and map errors. On that side, it's 4 month & a half (not 6 months, as initially stated) without patches for the stable branche...

 

I undrstd the focus on Vehicles. I also find sad the regular (and the most public branch) isn't so well maintained.

 

In fine, when build 39 will be released, TiS will face the bugs due to previous bugs + the bugs introduced/hidden which goes with the full Vehicles. And it will probably as nasty and messy as the B38 release (i hope not ; i wish past experiences may prevent that)

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On 2/12/2018 at 4:48 AM, FinestHops said:

 

You dont want that. Our server had to ditch the vehicle branch due to some rather damaging bugs we encountered using simple mods like morebuild. At least, not until they fix things like that. 

Compatability with mods is usually up to the mod authors, not the devs.

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On 2/13/2018 at 10:31 PM, Kurogo said:

Compatability with mods is usually up to the mod authors, not the devs.

 

Yes and no. For a large game like.... Fallout 4 for example, the game itself does not need mods in any way to stay popular. However, in a game like PZ where the playerbase is much smaller, it becomes a more symbiotic relationship that devs need to have with mod authors. This happens in part because look at all the servers out there. How many are using just vanilla? There are a few sure but most use mods. 

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1 hour ago, FinestHops said:

 

Yes and no. For a large game like.... Fallout 4 for example, the game itself does not need mods in any way to stay popular. However, in a game like PZ where the playerbase is much smaller, it becomes a more symbiotic relationship that devs need to have with mod authors. This happens in part because look at all the servers out there. How many are using just vanilla? There are a few sure but most use mods. 

It doesn't appear that mods have saved the servers at all. Despite good sales and lots of people playing, the game maintaining its average player per hour consistently for the past few years, public multiplayer has greatly diminished in terms of the number of players.

 

Regardless, we do our best to ensure that the game doesn't change so drastically between updates that it will break mods. But, because of the way mods work, and because of the limited amount of time and resources we have, there is no way to guarantee that mods will work and that mod authors won't have to maintain their mods.  We can't develop their mods and make a game at the same time.

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29 minutes ago, EnigmaGrey said:

But, because of the way mods work, and because of the limited amount of time and resources we have, there is no way to guarantee that mods will work and that mod authors won't have to maintain their mods.  We can't develop their mods and make a game at the same time.

That's the hazard of developing mods for a unfinished in-development game (and why I rarely do it). Its defiantly not up to the game's devs to ensure mods work across versions. When a code change will better suit the game (performance or other usefulness), but break some mods that maybe relying on the code staying the same...well...screw the mods.

If the original author is no longer willing to update the mod to ensure compatibility, and the mod is popular enough that it warrants a update, some interested party will probably be willing to pick up the torch.

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Which brings up a good point of a popular mod being more-build. Like for me, I wouldnt mind taking it over and releasing updates from within our community but at the same time have no idea what changed in the game itself to get it working again. 

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There's already lots of programs capable of generating diff files, so modders can isolate whats changed in important files to them without having to have a full list generated by the dev team.  That being said, any important major API changes should be mentioned in release notes.

 

Modders need to take care when developing and try and limit damage that can be done with a game update:

Overwrite as little of the base game as possible, the more of the base you replace, the more likely it is to break later (and the less likely it will be compatible  with other mods). Overwrite functions, not full files.

Most importantly, document what you've overwritten, and why (especially for larger mods). If someone else needs to make it compatible with a future version after you've moved onto other things, this is a major help. It takes less then a minute for you to write, and can save them hours.

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2 hours ago, FinestHops said:

Which brings up a good point of a popular mod being more-build. Like for me, I wouldnt mind taking it over and releasing updates from within our community but at the same time have no idea what changed in the game itself to get it working again. 

You most likely need to update the tile properties in isbuildnenu, iswoodenwall .ect Lua files to match the changes in the vehicle build.

 

Now I could be wrong and maybe the game is inheriting properties from Sprite names,  as movables do, but I'm pretty sure ChrisW did it the simple, easy to mod way.

 

So really all you have to do to figure out what changed is do a diff between 38. 30 end the current vehicle built the Lua files responsible for building.

 

*I could be wrong, I have not looked, and this is off the top of my head while on mobile

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On 2/21/2018 at 10:55 AM, EnigmaGrey said:

You most likely need to update the tile properties in isbuildnenu, iswoodenwall .ect Lua files to match the changes in the vehicle build.

 

Now I could be wrong and maybe the game is inheriting properties from Sprite names,  as movables do, but I'm pretty sure ChrisW did it the simple, easy to mod way.

 

So really all you have to do to figure out what changed is do a diff between 38. 30 end the current vehicle built the Lua files responsible for building.

 

*I could be wrong, I have not looked, and this is off the top of my head while on mobile

 

I will have to hae a look at it and see whats up. 

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On 2/20/2018 at 6:37 AM, FinestHops said:

 

Yes and no. For a large game like.... Fallout 4 for example, the game itself does not need mods in any way to stay popular. However, in a game like PZ where the playerbase is much smaller, it becomes a more symbiotic relationship that devs need to have with mod authors. This happens in part because look at all the servers out there. How many are using just vanilla? There are a few sure but most use mods. 

It's always yes. Take my farming mod for example. By itself, it's not compatable right now with about 3 maybe 4 other mods. Which mod do the devs decide to ensure compatability with? And for how long? Choosing one over the others might unnecessarily add more work for those authors, especially if that mod's updates are infrequent or ceased. Some mods use methods to achieve their purpose that aren't exactly congruous with the way things function in game, further complicating compatability. The amount and popularity of mods in this game makes this even more necessary.

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The Devs have absolutely no responsibility over making sure that modification to the game is compatible. That is up to the mod authors to update and change their mods to fit the codes the developers put out. Now the dev team might try to make it so that it doesn't break everyone's mods, but if they have to change the game's mechanics or core codes, they have to.

Even Minecraft has to. There was one update where references for items changed drastically and it almost leveled the major modding community, and has only recently come back to the strength it was before.

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I'm not sure what the logic to having three branches (1 core and 2 experimental) of the game is. The PZ playerbase is, well, small. I for one don't play Vehicles, because it doesn't play nice with Hydrocraft. Perhaps there would be more feedback on vehicles if it were in the main branch?

 

I trust there's a logic to it, but I don't see it. Embrace the alpha; push Vehicles to main.

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