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Winter Survival


Moose65

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So I recently tried playing 6 months later after taking a break for awhile and I found out there is now no fishing at all during winter months?

 

How are you suppose to actually survive then if there are no renewable food sources? I don't mind Light Eater actually being a useful perk now, but if you can't settle down in one area that takes some of the fun out of building or fortifying a place in a premium location.

 

The only other thing I can think of is growing crops and keeping a 24/7 fire going, but that doesn't seem like a whole lot of fun. There's also foraging for non-perishables during the non-winter months, but that isn't an option during 6 months later when it drops you in the middle of winter.

 

So, what I'm asking I guess is, is there no alternative to scavenging for canned goods to get through winter? With rotten food potentially being done away with, its seems like the only other recourse (assuming you don't start in winter) is to forage for what few non perishable food items there are.

 

It seems like the game, atm, will make your lifespan be limited by a). how much non-perishables you can find or be b). forced to save up every little grape leave, violet, rosehip, frog (those beautiful immortal slimy buggers), and insect you can find. Insects of course being the last ditch effort since you'll spend a good part of early spring getting rid of the depression from them.

 

Also, I would like to see trapping be a little more useful. I still feel like there needs to be a twine alternative that can be foraged to enable basic trapping (stick traps) for characters who choose a wilderness survival. I don't mind if food is going to be limited in winter, but we do need options, or at least more ways to preserve foods (canning is currently NOT a good option).

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1 hour ago, ld-airgrafix said:

Some plants can be grown indoors, like peanuts, but biggest tip i can offer, eat perishables, leave canned food for later. Learn how to preserve food. 

Perishables aren't an option on 6 months later, nor is preserving food. I don't mind a challenge, but 6 months later doesn't give you an option to settle down anywhere since you basically HAVE to move house to house. Also, I think your playing a mod since you can't grow peanuts in game, and while every crop can "potentially" be grown indoors, you'll still need a heat source during the winter.

 

Now, if you made it past winter, you could possibly forage for a stupid amount of (currently, but probably not suppose to be) non-perishable goods. Right now its at the extreme end of there being no re-newable food sources during winter since apparently fishing was changed at some point.

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2 minutes ago, Moose65 said:

since apparently fishing was changed at some point.


Can you not fish in winter anymore? I thought fishing and trapping were year round and that hunting would help fill the gap when wildlife is eventually added to the game.

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Just now, Kuren said:


Can you not fish in winter anymore? I thought fishing and trapping were year round and that hunting would help fill the gap when wildlife is eventually added to the game.

 

At some point they patched it to make fishing impossible. I spear fished for about a week straight with no catches. Whats strange is I was still getting fishing XP and had almost leveled it a block.

 

Now, if Winter fishing is tied behind a certain skill level, then pardon my ignorance (and I would have built my character more appropriately), but it seems like its pretty much been disabled.

 

Trapping would be nice, but right now your currently locked out of it if you can't find a saw and/or twine. I really feel like you should be able to make some crude traps from foraging, just like you can make crude fishing implements. There are plenty of foraging levels that could use some new items added to them, and I feel like vines and branches should be appropriate replacements for some of the trap making requirements.

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1 minute ago, trombonaught said:

I'm confused... do American fish migrate for the Winter? Because in Canada you can definitely fish if you can get through the ice.


You can fish in the winter in America too, just like you can trap a rabbit in the woods year round as well :P

That may have been why I assumed both were viable year round in game lol

 

2 minutes ago, Moose65 said:

At some point they patched it to make fishing impossible. I spear fished for about a week straight with no catches.


I usually build a park ranger with angler trait for the fishing skill and so I can make and repair rods (I take park ranger so I can ditch hoards by running through the forest though :P lol). I can still catch loads of fish if I put in a bit of time during the PZ day, as can my friends without the angler trait can when we play together. Maybe they just nerfed spear fishing at lower levels, I don't know. I remember it used to be really easy even with no skill in fishing to catch big fish with it.

 

7 minutes ago, Moose65 said:

I really feel like you should be able to make some crude traps from foraging, just like you can make crude fishing implements. There are plenty of foraging levels that could use some new items added to them, and I feel like vines and branches should be appropriate replacements for some of the trap making requirements.


I completely agree :D I think most things (especially wilderness survival related things) show be able to be crafted with foraged materials. Things like the fishing rod as well as building a stone axe or hammer are awesome additions to the game and I hope they add more like them :)

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1 minute ago, Kuren said:

I usually build a park ranger with angler trait for the fishing skill and so I can make and repair rods (I take park ranger so I can ditch hoards by running through the forest though :P lol). I can still catch loads of fish if I put in a bit of time during the PZ day, as can my friends without the angler trait can when we play together. Maybe they just nerfed spear fishing at lower levels, I don't know. I remember it used to be really easy even with no skill in fishing to catch big fish with it.

Have you tried fishing in 6 months later (which by defaults starts you in winter)? I know I can spear fish on survival and catch tons, but I haven't been able to do the same on 6 months later, catching literally 0 fish.

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Just now, Moose65 said:

Have you tried fishing in 6 months later (which by defaults starts you in winter)? I know I can spear fish on survival and catch tons, but I haven't been able to do the same on 6 months later, catching literally 0 fish.


Honestly, I haven't played a winter game in a long time. I just assumed that fishing was a thing still since it would make sense in a realistic way as well as a gameplay way.

 

17 minutes ago, Moose65 said:

Whats strange is I was still getting fishing XP and had almost leveled it a block.


Also, about this. You randomly get xp every now and then when you're catching nothing. I think it's fair, practice makes perfect after all :) Plus you're not going to be catching enough fish to level up if you start from scratch :P lol

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Just now, Kuren said:

Also, about this. You randomly get xp every now and then when you're catching nothing. I think it's fair, practice makes perfect after all :) Plus you're not going to be catching enough fish to level up if you start from scratch :P lol

Yeah I completely understand that. Just seem strange you could earn XP when fishing is intentionally disabled :S

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Just now, Moose65 said:

Yeah I completely understand that. Just seem strange you could earn XP when fishing is intentionally disabled :S


Your character is still trying and learning the process I guess :P lol

Either way, if fishing is disabled in winter I would hope it's a bug or something they would consider changing. Would really take away from the realism without it.

I would even be okay if sometimes in the winter (maybe when it snows or is about to snow) they made it so bodies of water (and maybe even the edges of the Ohio River) froze over. It would require you to smash a block (like a single PZ tile) of ice out with some kind of weapon or tool. It could even really tire you out with certain tools that aren't optimal. It would add an extra challenge for getting water and fish in the winter, and heck, it could even be another cool way to die or hurt yourself. Falling through thin ice if you walk out too far on a slightly too warm day lol, Wiser to smash a block out by the shore, but maybe the fishing's not as good as it is a few tiles out :P

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3 minutes ago, Kuren said:


Your character is still trying and learning the process I guess :P lol

Either way, if fishing is disabled in winter I would hope it's a bug or something they would consider changing. Would really take away from the realism without it.

I would even be okay if sometimes in the winter (maybe when it snows or is about to snow) they made it so bodies of water (and maybe even the edges of the Ohio River) froze over. It would require you to smash a block (like a single PZ tile) of ice out with some kind of weapon or tool. It could even really tire you out with certain tools that aren't optimal. It would add an extra challenge for getting water and fish in the winter, and heck, it could even be another cool way to die or hurt yourself. Falling through thin ice if you walk out too far on a slightly too warm day lol, Wiser to smash a block out by the shore, but maybe the fishing's not as good as it is a few tiles out :P

While another topic entirely, water tiles in general are in a dire need of an overhaul. While I haven't messed with vehicles lately, I bet they'll just simply collide with those tiles instead of sinking into them. Also, it makes for some weird zombie behavior in general since they function as solid walls. So many opportunities could be added for survivors to recklessly drown (or potentially escape) via water tiles, as well as being ambushed while fishing by zombies lurking below the surface :D 

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Just now, Moose65 said:

While another topic entirely, water tiles in general are in a dire need of an overhaul. While I haven't messed with vehicles lately, I bet they'll just simply collide with those tiles instead of sinking into them. Also, it makes for some weird zombie behavior in general since they function as solid walls. So many opportunities could be added for survivors to recklessly drown (or potentially escape) via water tiles, as well as being ambushed while fishing by zombies lurking below the surface :D 


My hope was always that animations could open this up more. It would be cool to be able to wade out into the water a few tiles or cross a small creek (getting yourself wet and possibly sick from being too damp like rain does). And as you mentioned, there's all the other things that could interact with water in cool ways too :D Cars sinking in and zeds lurking on/in the shoreline would be amazing additions to the game :) Plus it would be cool to see hoards cross some of the smaller creeks in the game. The Guns-a-BlazIN motel wouldn't be so protected without that tiny wall of water stopping all the zeds coming in from town :P

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Actually, as long as Depression moodle won't kill you, you also can dig for worms ; it's the ultimate last resort to avoid starvation (as long as you get a shovel or trowel). It's tedious but can keep you "alive" even in dire circumstances... I can't say it's exciting, nor fun, but it's a solid way to survive the 1st 6 month winter (at least as long as you can set a viable Agriculture, in some remote places).

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14 hours ago, Moose65 said:

Perishables aren't an option on 6 months later, nor is preserving food. I don't mind a challenge, but 6 months later doesn't give you an option to settle down anywhere since you basically HAVE to move house to house. Also, I think your playing a mod since you can't grow peanuts in game, and while every crop can "potentially" be grown indoors, you'll still need a heat source during the winter.

 

Now, if you made it past winter, you could possibly forage for a stupid amount of (currently, but probably not suppose to be) non-perishable goods. Right now its at the extreme end of there being no re-newable food sources during winter since apparently fishing was changed at some point.

You do not need a heat source or light. It's enough just to plant your farm in a building.

 

It'll just grow slowly.

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3 hours ago, EG Bot said:

You do not need a heat source or light. It's enough just to plant your farm in a building.

 

It'll just grow slowly.

Really? I thought the cold could kill them? You still have to have an uncovered window don't ya? I'm going to experiment with this in sandbox.

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10 hours ago, agreubill said:

Actually, as long as Depression moodle won't kill you, you also can dig for worms ; it's the ultimate last resort to avoid starvation (as long as you get a shovel or trowel). It's tedious but can keep you "alive" even in dire circumstances... I can't say it's exciting, nor fun, but it's a solid way to survive the 1st 6 month winter (at least as long as you can set a viable Agriculture, in some remote places).

Thought worms were disabled during the winter?

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So messing around a bit in sandbox........

 

I can see 1 tile of dirt = infinite worm farming is still in the game. Kinda disappointing, because if that's the case all you need is a trowel to survive forever. Also, holy crap why are plants so resilient when planted indoors? I haven't bothered to mess with them outside, but even when its freezing inside with NO sunlight available, they keep on trucking. This seems like an oversight, as I don't know too many plants that survive with zero sunlight on top of the fact that their ignoring freezing temps indoors.

 

Winter survival needs some serious re-balancing :/

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1 hour ago, Moose65 said:

So messing around a bit in sandbox........

 

I can see 1 tile of dirt = infinite worm farming is still in the game. Kinda disappointing, because if that's the case all you need is a trowel to survive forever. Also, holy crap why are plants so resilient when planted indoors? I haven't bothered to mess with them outside, but even when its freezing inside with NO sunlight available, they keep on trucking. This seems like an oversight, as I don't know too many plants that survive with zero sunlight on top of the fact that their ignoring freezing temps indoors.

 

Winter survival needs some serious re-balancing :/

Basically, everything in doors isn't as cold as they are out doors. So the health regren outpaces the damage from the cold. 

 

Plants also can't tell when they're covered in snow. So if the temperature is relatively mild most of the day, they'll still merrily grow enough.

 

Along with questionable decisions like not being able to forage and fish, find protective clothing and layer up (even if it's not visible), and safely build a fire indoors (excepting a rare fireplace or wood stove), winter has pretty much remained untouched since it was added.

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4 hours ago, EG Bot said:

Basically, everything in doors isn't as cold as they are out doors. So the health regren outpaces the damage from the cold. 

 

Plants also can't tell when they're covered in snow. So if the temperature is relatively mild most of the day, they'll still merrily grow enough.

 

Along with questionable decisions like not being able to forage and fish, find protective clothing and layer up (even if it's not visible), and safely build a fire indoors (excepting a rare fireplace or wood stove), winter has pretty much remained untouched since it was added.

Wasn't sunlight also a factor in a plant's health? Seems like I read something about that mechanic, or maybe i'm imagining it. It seemed strange that they weren't losing health with every window covered.

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7 hours ago, Moose65 said:

Wasn't sunlight also a factor in a plant's health? Seems like I read something about that mechanic, or maybe i'm imagining it. It seemed strange that they weren't losing health with every window covered.

Pretty certain there's no concept of ambient light for plants.

 

Should be easy to check. =D

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Since you can still grow crops during winter, survial during winter is still too easy. I always end up with tons of non-perishable foods which I never use cause I can still survive during winter without them. I can understand that 6 month later is different to survival mode cause you can't stock up on non-perishables but I think it would be worth to create a real challenge during winter. I am still missing phases of hunger during winter time and the need to loot houses to survive.

 

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