Hunger, Food, and Nutrition still seem unbalanced...

[FistfulOfZen]

So this starts with playing with friends on a private server. We've got a base set up, we've got farms, we're near a river, and we're foraging regularly. Having a great time with the game. Just noticed the "underweight" trait come up, and we've been fighting it for a month in game, to no avail. I've been looking all over for some kind of guide to help, but there's no information at all, and all of the existing discussions on the topic seem to be archived. Now we're in September, we're noticing that our survivors are dropping weight steadily, despite every effort to eat more than enough. Even with "hearty appetite" and more or less constantly eating, our survivors is already have lost 18% of their weight in just a couple months, despite having more than enough food. 

 

We rely primarily on Farming, Fishing, and Foraging. Traps aren't working at all (even though we have a dozen crate traps, they are catching absolutely nothing, even though they are placed 100+ blocks away in forests by the river). I've been trying to have my survivor eat until stuffed and only doing relatively light work, and I can't get her weight to stabilize, let alone increase. Granted, these are very active characters, and I'm set stats decrease to "slow" (and now to "very slow"), because needs were unmanageable (being tired in the afternoon is understandable, but being "in danger of passing out" on a daily basis with a character with Wakeful? That's time to get a doctor appointment to find out what's wrong). Either or, the weight loss seems out of balance.

I get it. If someone isn't eating enough calories to keep up, they are going to lose weight. Alright. Fair. The problem is that, especially at the extreme amount of weight loss, there are very pronounced symptoms, the most obvious of which should be fatigue that doesn't go away, even when the person rests. That said, if survivors are eating meals of (2) fish fillets, potatoes (carbs), (2) cabbage, and carrots (carbs), three or more times a day, it doesn't seem that malnutrition should be a serious concern (especially in a video game).

 

So, where is the balance of the nutrition mechanic going, because it seems a bit heavy now, and why can't we have a moodle that could let us know if we're meeting our nutritional needs, at least indirectly, even if it's just using one of the existing moodles (exhaustion, for example), especially if there are interactions between one (hunger/fatigue) and exhaustion?

 

Thanks for your time!

PS - Bow hunting? (http://fw.ky.gov/Hunt/Pages/Checklist-for-Bow-Hunting.aspx)

PPS - Nuts? (http://www.uky.edu/hort/Kentucky-trees-with-edible-fruits)

PPPS - Harvesting vine grown fruits/veggies shouldn't destroy the plant. That's the benefit of growing vine based produce, such as tomatoes.

[count_zero99uk]

Couldnt agree more.  Have a similar problem on my server.

[Damien Darkside]

I've turned nutrition off. I'm here to survive and build, not play WeightWatchers

[EnigmaGrey]

There just aren't enough high sources of fat and carbs in PZ for you to maintain a highly active lifestyle and remain at a normal weight without looting nearby cities right now.

 

You're not getting it from your meals.

[FistfulOfZen]

2 hours ago, EnigmaGrey said:

There just aren't enough high sources of fat and carbs in PZ for you to maintain a highly active lifestyle and remain at a normal weight without looting nearby cities right now.

 

You're not getting it from your meals.

 

True enough, but this points to really two distinct problems then. First, this level of realism isn't really realistic. If the goal here is realism, then the goal shouldn't be just an inexorable decrease in weight. It should be a question of "can't". Undernourished? Good luck cutting down a tree. Missing large portions of daily calories? Good luck having the energy to rummage through a neighborhood for supplies. So malnourished that you're dropping weight? Good luck swinging a bat with enough force to stop a single mindless zombie, let alone a group.

 

Using a new "Anemic" or "Malnourished" moodle seems appropriate and necessary, because it's a separate mechanic from either Tiredness or Endurance. The sensation of being malnourished is completely different from being "hungry", and it is distinct from simple exhaustion and tiredness, exactly in the same way that being cold or wet are distinct sensations. Like "overheating" worsens thirst, so should "Anemic" (or "Malnourished") worsen Tiredness and Endurance, because that's exactly what being malnourished does. And it is this sustained malnourishment, not hunger, that kills.

 

It'd be nice to see live stock (cows, chickens, horses, etc.) be implemented at some point, especially considering the game is set in fairly rural KY, where these animals would be fairly plentiful, especially on farms. If I were in an zombie apocalypse, to a rural farm would be one of the first places I'd head, simply because there'd be so few zombies and sustainable food and transportation (since horses don't need gasoline).

 

Either or, even with very little or no activity, I'm having trouble stabilizing my survivor's weight, which is, right now, very apparently nearly impossible.

[Paul Redeker]

Find and eat all the butter in game. 

[sadpickle]

On 5/29/2017 at 11:48 PM, Paul Redeker said:

Find and eat all the butter in game. 

This. Not just dairy butter either. Peanut butter is really good. Ice cream is king. Cupcakes are nice since I guess (?) they're non-perishable like butter. Any sort of junk food generally is high in fat. It's essential to stockpile these goods throughout the game and shuffle them into your fresh foods; then halting weight loss is not terribly hard.

 

Eventually, of course, these things run out. By then you'd think a survivor could find a goat or something, maybe hunt the occasional game instead of the speculative and rather unrewarding trapping.

[SailorWolf]

Fruit and nut trees should be added in some way. I live in Oklahoma and can walk to the corner store which is 3 blocks from my house. In those 3 blocks there are pecan, peach, pear and apple trees. If you don't mind walking maybe a mile you could add cherry and plum to the list.

[Kuren]

On 5/29/2017 at 9:04 AM, FistfulOfZen said:

It'd be nice to see live stock (cows, chickens, horses, etc.) be implemented at some point, especially considering the game is set in fairly rural KY, where these animals would be fairly plentiful, especially on farms. If I were in an zombie apocalypse, to a rural farm would be one of the first places I'd head, simply because there'd be so few zombies and sustainable food and transportation (since horses don't need gasoline).

I'm hoping we see a variety of animals added to the game once animations are out as well. Not just farm animals but wild animals too. That way hunting can help remedy this diet problem for the physically active survivor in the late game.

I feel like a farm with a chicken coop and a pasture would be the best place to post up. Assuming you could get eggs from the chickens, that alone would be a good source of food.

I currently try to post up next to water and make fishing my priority. I can catch more than I can eat that way but I need lots of pans for stir-frys since every type of fish becomes a simple "fish fillet" when cut and you can only add 15 hunger of a single ingredient to a recipe without it ruining the meal. I cook a bunch at once and I'm set for the day though lol

[sadpickle]

2 hours ago, Kuren said:

I feel like a farm with a chicken coop and a pasture would be the best place to post up. Assuming you could get eggs from the chickens, that alone would be a good source of food.

This absolutely should be in the game. I just checked; Kentucky's main agricultural exports are poultry and eggs, http://www.kypoultry.org/pfacts/

 

You need to find Chicken Wire and have carpentry skill to make a Coop. There's a meta event chance every night of zombies or predators getting into the coop and killing your chickens. Encourages good base building, diversifies your food output.

[Rocco36]

Whilst I like the idea of gaining/loosing weight in game as a character, this seems a bit excessive. I don't think any game should be THAT accurate and focused on everything you eat, etc...

[explorator]

The high level of activity is the root cause. If you are not sleeping, you are looting, farming, building, etc. and burning a crap-load of calories.  I know it sucks, but the best option is to slow down and do less each day, but just standing around is super boring. But honestly, the only way I have been able to stop losing weight and even gain a couple of pounds is to spend time staring at the wall. I also stopped running ALL THE TIME and only when I need to. 

[Damien Darkside]

On 6/2/2017 at 4:40 PM, sadpickle said:

This absolutely should be in the game. I just checked; Kentucky's main agricultural exports are poultry and eggs, http://www.kypoultry.org/pfacts/

 

You need to find Chicken Wire and have carpentry skill to make a Coop. There's a meta event chance every night of zombies or predators getting into the coop and killing your chickens. Encourages good base building, diversifies your food output.

Meta events like that should not be in the game. Now zombies destroying it and eating the chickens? Yes. You shouldn't be punished for playing the game, and especially playing it right.

[ChatNoir]

I have no issues balancing my weight. It drops a bit in the first 3 weeks but this can be easily managed with a small amount of high-caloric snacks from time to time. After I have set up a farm and traps and be able to supply me with about 3-4 veggie-meat stirfries a day my weight is stable or even increases over time. Its more inportant in the next month to not gaining too much weight back. I do a lot of loot runs even to places which are far away which needs a lot of running. I also build a lot and chop 6-8 trees a day when I expand and upgrade my safehouse.  The only disadvantage is that you have to take a proper amount of food with you if you are on loot runs. So I always have 2-3 stirfries or some other snacks in my bag to guarantee 3 well fed meals a day.

[Vintrius]

The thread is a little old, but I will add my opinion regardless. I do not want to open another one wit similiar title.

One more thing - please don't get my criticism wrong. I still think the game is great.

 

For now the nutrition system is basically still very unbalanced and virtually sucks - I'm playing IWBUMS 38.5.

It sucks because of the reasons provided above - not having enough food sources - trapping does not give you much. I've checked the calorie count for small birds i.e. pigeons and it is higher than what is coded in the game. This only means that the birds we are catching are the size of a sparrow or some other rater tiny birds. Also in a survival situation you wouldn't throw any edible parts of any animal. Check the calorie count of any bird when you do not throw away the skin. Another reason whyt the system does feel very artificial is bad implementation.

Fishing is pointless, as fish have absolutely no nutritional value in the game (average 100g grilled fish fillet has around 200 calories).

At the moment the system is very easy to exploit. I tested it with 2-3 very well fed meals per day - i.e. stew made from potatoes, cabbage, tomatoes, small bird meat, mushrooms and fish or a stir fry about the same + eggs. Did nothing for the whole day, except cooking. My weight is still going down very slowly. This lasted for several days.

I tried the same and went to do some looting, fought zombies the whole day and repeated for a few next days. This seemed to have virtually little effect on the pace at which my character's weight changed, which is weird.

On the other hand chips are fairly easy to find and you can survive by eating 3-4 packs a day and gain weight fairly quickly.

With food you can gather and cook the best idea is to eat 2-3 pots of soup and go to sleep. Otherwise my weight seemed to be virtually still, even when not doing a thing and only staing awake.

 

On 4.06.2017 at 1:12 PM, ChatNoir said:

I have no issues balancing my weight. It drops a bit in the first 3 weeks but this can be easily managed with a small amount of high-caloric snacks from time to time. After I have set up a farm and traps and be able to supply me with about 3-4 veggie-meat stirfries a day my weight is stable or even increases over time. Its more inportant in the next month to not gaining too much weight back. I do a lot of loot runs even to places which are far away which needs a lot of running. I also build a lot and chop 6-8 trees a day when I expand and upgrade my safehouse.  The only disadvantage is that you have to take a proper amount of food with you if you are on loot runs. So I always have 2-3 stirfries or some other snacks in my bag to guarantee 3 well fed meals a day.

 

To tell you the truth I started with very underweight trait on Survival mode. At the moment it is a free trait. Found loads of chips and ate them to gain weight quickly. Within a month my weight went up to around 72. I also ate all the ice cream and other stuff from the fridges when looting (i.e. mayonaisse). On survival (rare loot) preset there is still enough food to last for 2-3 winters. The issue is getting to it and staying alive.

 

A little digression below.

 

What is also funny about some mecanichs of the game:

Smoker trait - in one of the earlier builds, when it wasn't present, cigarettes (as well as lighters or matches) were fairly easy to find on zombies or in houses. When the smoker trait was introduced it seemed a free trait, however as it seems from my experience with current IWBUMS to balance the issue of a "free trait" the spawning chances and locations of cigarettes were altered to the point where it became ludicrous. I have killed 700 zombies on survival, have also tried the this on the first week and sandbox with abundant loot just to check whether it is related to loot availability. Only places I was able to find cigarettes were prep counters in restaurants and shops (small quantities) and in storage lots (lots of cigarettes spawn in those). It seems as everybody in project zomboid quit smoking prior to the outbreak.