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Loot Ratio Engine


AceFromSpace

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Transfering the idea I posted in the Vehicle Test Build, since it was not all that related to vehicles anyway, and could be a standalone feature.

 

How about a game engine that manipulates Loot Rarity depending on how far in the apocalypse you are. Realistically speaking, the more days that pass in the apocalypse, the more the chanses other survivors will loot some places before you, thus making loot more rare. So what I propose, is a function that takes into account the amount of days you are in the apocalypse, and decrease the ammount of loot in places you have not recently visited (So your base stays intact, but other lootable places would have their resources decreased, even places you have visited before and decided not to empty them). Additionally, this could work in reverse with the spawn ratio of Annotated Maps (more survivors gather supplies on their bases, so the loot can now be found there instead of e.g. a Hardware Store), which could also force players into more zombie killing action instead of just avoiding fights.


I believe it would add a lot of realism to the game, provide players with a new challenge, and also make them feel survivors are actually there in the apocalypse, without actual Survivors being added to the game yet (despite meta events serving the same purpose, sometimes I cannot shake the feeling that I am all alone in a vast map in Single Player, and it is sometimes a horryfying feeling)

 

It would simply serve as a Sandbox option (an extension of Loot Rarity), where you could choose the initial loot rarity and if you want it reduced by this engine, and even to what amount and over how many days you would want it reduced.

 

Additionally, it seems relatively easy to implement, unless all Loot is decided on the map upon game creation, that would make this a lot harder and could (possibly) requite a full redesigning of the Loot Spawning Engine. 

 

Bonus feature: When Survivors are actually in the game, we could make the chances of them raiding your base for supplies higher as days go by (because their supplies are running out ;) )

 

Awaiting your thoughts on this.

Edited by AceFromSpace
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6 hours ago, Drama_Setter said:

Great idea. Can you post it in this thread,please?

Just did, was surprised with how many ideas the community has suggested for the next build.

 

4 hours ago, Damien Darkside said:

As long as there is a way to disable loot vanishing. If I gotta go through four more freakin' warehouses for another freakin' sledgehammer I'll kill someone.

That could easily be an option. I feel your pain because I have walked miles upon miles just to try and find a sledgehammer as it is. But maybe on the other hand, a sledgehammer (or an axe, or any vital tool for the matter) might become easier to find by following Annotated Maps, instead of just trying to breach half-empty warehouses. Why search for it when you can steal it? 

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17 hours ago, AceFromSpace said:

Additionally, it seems relatively easy to implement, unless all Loot is decided on the map upon game creation, that would make this a lot harder and could (possibly) requite a full redesigning of the Loot Spawning Engine. 

Loot spawns as you get close to the container it is in (close meaning it is around/within the edges of the screen fully zoomed out, maybe a little further). So the problem with this is that by end-game most people have  (I assume) looted/visited most areas of the map. It's a cool idea, but I think the only way it would have any impact is if the map was a lot larger or procedural, especially with the introduction of vehicles. Even if you don't use them to visit every building, loot is spawning as you're driving by.

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6 minutes ago, tommysticks said:

Loot spawns as you get close to the container it is in (close meaning it is around/within the edges of the screen fully zoomed out, maybe a little further). So the problem with this is that by end-game most people have  (I assume) looted/visited most areas of the map. It's a cool idea, but I think the only way it would have any impact is if the map was a lot larger or procedural, especially with the introduction of vehicles. Even if you don't use them to visit every building, loot is spawning as you're driving by.


Meh, pretty sure loot is generated only when you "Open" the container and have a look inside.

I started a new game with all mods disabled, abundant loot for testing purpose, Open 1 out of 3 cupboards, quit, loaded a bunch of mods, loaded the game and it generated mod items in the remaining 2 which wouldn't have happened if the loot was already generated just because I was close to the container.

It even sounds easier on the processing to generate stuff only for the few containers player is looking into than to generate potentially thousands of items just because the player just got close to a huge werehouse or a trailer park.

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3 hours ago, Svarog said:

Meh, pretty sure loot is generated only when you "Open" the container and have a look inside.

I stand corrected, after further testing you are correct except for shelves. Pretty weird. It seems all other containers do only populate once you check whats inside.

 

I'm about 99% sure it used to be containers within the vicinity. In fact they may have accidentally left out shelves if it was some sort of update. I don't know why else this would be the case.

Edited by tommysticks
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Also in regards to loot vanishing, I once trekked from a player house in Mald to the logging factory, dodging zombies and making sure I had food.

 

The place was practically empty apart from extremely sparse supplies.

 

If that is how it will feel two months down the line in PZ, I don't want it. It felt horrible, frustrating and a waste of my time since there wasn't an assortment of at least other goods I can use. This is double for the lot of us that play modded PZ, since I NEED THE AUGER DAMMIT

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2 hours ago, Damien Darkside said:

Also in regards to loot vanishing, I once trekked from a player house in Mald to the logging factory, dodging zombies and making sure I had food.

 

The place was practically empty apart from extremely sparse supplies.

 

If that is how it will feel two months down the line in PZ, I don't want it. It felt horrible, frustrating and a waste of my time since there wasn't an assortment of at least other goods I can use. This is double for the lot of us that play modded PZ, since I NEED THE AUGER DAMMIT


That is exactly why I proposed the counter-measure of Annotated Maps and hidden stashes. The loot does not vanish, you simply search for it in other places from where it used to be early in the game. This suggestion is not intended to make a player's life miserable, just to add a little more diversity in gameplay. On a side note, two months in the apocalypse, I believe most players would hardly rely on looting anymore, they would already have a stable base of operations, all the needed tools, and their food and water supply guaranteed. However, for a scenario situation (e.g. 6 months in) I can see it being frustrating and increasing difficulty, so that is where Hidden Stashes come in handy. Yes gameplay could be a bit harder because you have to fight your way into good looting, but then again, you chose to play further in the apocalypse without a hideout, tools, food etc. It is supposed to be harder anyway. ;) 

Edited by AceFromSpace
For some reason I double posted when trying to edit my message. I urge a moderator to delete the the present post and keep the updated one.
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2 hours ago, Damien Darkside said:

Also in regards to loot vanishing, I once trekked from a player house in Mald to the logging factory, dodging zombies and making sure I had food.

 

The place was practically empty apart from extremely sparse supplies.

 

If that is how it will feel two months down the line in PZ, I don't want it. It felt horrible, frustrating and a waste of my time since there wasn't an assortment of at least other goods I can use. This is double for the lot of us that play modded PZ, since I NEED THE AUGER DAMMIT


That is exactly why I proposed the counter-measure of Annotated Maps and hidden stashes. The loot does not vanish, you simply search for it in other places from where it used to be early in the game. This suggestion is not intended to make a player's life miserable, just to add a little more diversity in gameplay. On a side note, two months in the apocalypse, I believe most players would hardly rely on looting anymore, they would already have a stable base of operations, all the needed tools, and their food and water supply guaranteed. However, for a scenario situation (e.g. 6 months in) I can see it being frustrating and increasing difficulty, so that is where Hidden Stashes come in handy. Yes gameplay could be a bit harder because you have to fight your way into good looting, but then again, you chose to play further in the apocalypse without a hideout, tools, food etc. It is supposed to be harder anyway. ;) 
 

7 hours ago, tommysticks said:

I stand corrected, after further testing you are correct except for shelves. Pretty weird. It seems all other containers do only populate once you check whats inside.


Thank you both for your hard work on investigating this situation. Any other ways you can think of that this suggestion could not be achievable? If not, what does it take to convince a dev to give it a shot? :D 

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16 hours ago, tommysticks said:

I'm about 99% sure it used to be containers within the vicinity. In fact they may have accidentally left out shelves if it was some sort of update. I don't know why else this would be the case.


I randomly realized why it works that way while playing the game, it's so the overlay sprites (books on shelves, etc.) are there by the time the player sees the ting, it would not be very good if those appeared out of thin air as player looks at the contents.

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3 hours ago, Svarog said:


I randomly realized why it works that way while playing the game, it's so the overlay sprites (books on shelves, etc.) are there by the time the player sees the ting, it would not be very good if those appeared out of thin air as player looks at the contents.

You're a goddamn genius. 

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13 hours ago, AceFromSpace said:

Thank you both for your hard work on investigating this situation. Any other ways you can think of that this suggestion could not be achievable? If not, what does it take to convince a dev to give it a shot? :D 

It actually might be pretty simple. What timeframe are you thinkin supplies should become more scarce? I might be able to ship some shit up. 

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3 hours ago, tommysticks said:

It actually might be pretty simple. What timeframe are you thinkin supplies should become more scarce? I might be able to ship some shit up. 


Well the original idea was to be able to select the initial value (Abundant, Rare, Extremely Rare etc.) like it is now, and then also select the timeframe during which supplies will be decreased to a minimum value (be it 0 or just something below extremely rare), f.e. Abundant to Extremely Rare over 2 months. That would enable players to simulate each scenario according to their needs.

Now if that is not an option, I would start on Normal on Initial Infection and go up to Extremely Rare over 1 Month. After that, I would just mess with the ratio of completely empty houses vs houses with Extremely Rare loot in. But that is just a personal preference that other people might not like.

The standard formula for this should be an input of Initial Value, Minimum Value, Decrease Period, and after the decrease period a standard reduction pace for the ratio of empty/with loot places. The spawn ratio of Annotated Maps should go upwards in reverse, while the loot of Survivor's Houses should remain on Initial Value or even see a periodical increase

 

Spoiler

Something along the lines of (with a very generalized programming logic, not an actual code):
reduction_rate = (initial_value - minimum_value)/decrease_period
*assume never ending forloop here*
If current_day <= decrease_period then
            daily_ratio = daily_ratio - reduction_rate

else

            empty_ratio = empty_ratio + added_value

end

end

Or something like that, also with Annotated Maps working in reverse and Survivor's Houses excluded from empty_ratio or working in reverse as well. Hope I did more good than harm with my half-assed programming knowledge.



Unfortunately I am not a modder but anyone else that might want to try and work their magic, I will be happy to help in any way I can.

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  • 4 months later...

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1152751225

 

I made something that makes this suggestion possible and a few more things, by making you able to change most sandbox variables over time. It's not the most user friendly thing in the world, but this way you can also do cool things such as increasing the size of zombie groups over time.

 

This is something I wanted to be in the game for a long time, I hope this also fulfills your suggestion in a way.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Maybe you also could split the variable for the 3 loot category existing in game (food, weapon, other). Food and weapons would probably the 1st category to decrease, then the "other" category.

 

Reducing the loot chance to 0 (except for hidden stash from annoted map) is not really good.

 

"Extremely rare" loot is, sincerely, alrdy really punishing. Loot settings below that would be very painful and frustrating (except if it's drastically up since the last time i play with it).

 

The idea of hidden stash is interesting, but there's a limited number of annoted map for each main city (Muld, WP, March Ridge, Rosewood and now Riverside) ; i guess it's around 4 to 6 different annoted maps for each.

 

Valley Station, Dixie, the north-western village (beside the west farm) are all excluded from that (no annoted map for these area, ie no loot concentration after the end of Decrease Period).

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