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Faalagorn

Unified world item picking

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The thing that's been boggling me since the furniture moving was introduced (which I totally love by the way :)) is that there are two systems for moving things currently in-game. I always wanted to suggest it, but I was reluctant to write a whole post about it back then and seeing how it is now with disassembling items, picking up multi-tiled items, inability to drop picked furniture as items on the ground, and minor improvements to pick up menu, I'm a bit confident unifying the system could be a right way to go.

 

Previously before furniture items were movable, it was possible to pick up and place down generators and dead bodies - and I may say I really like this system. It still generates an "item" in your inventory, but it automatically occupies both hands, making you vulnerable to attacks and disallows to pick up another body and/or generator - which is great, as it is really realistic :).

 

However, when the furniture moving was released, a new system was introduced with a new sub-menu allowing to choose an item from the world and put it into your inventory. While great, as it also allows you to rotate the object and making it potentially easier to place the item at desired location, whereby placing generator is not so "precise", it introduced some oddities - for example, you can pick up multiple furniture items and even hide them in your bags (or equip in one hand (!) ) and further reduce their weight, which isn't quite realistic. You can also equip a weapon while carrying a fridge, which while slows you down, doesn't make you as vulnerable as with transporting a generator or moving a dead body. Originally it was also possible to pick a furniture and drop it on the ground as an inventory item, but that was changed recently (though the drop option is still there that currently does nothing :P).

 

While I realize the rotation and more precise placement (also when wanting to place the item on top of another) is needed, but it would be nice to unify both systems a bit, either one way or another (though I'd really prefer to use the generators/body system for this). 

 

I also really like the recently introduced disassembly system, as it utilize right click instead of separate menu for disassembling items up. It would be really nice if you could select items to pick up by right clicking, as it would be less confusing (especially for newcomers), unified and won't require a separate button for picking things up.

 

I'm aware changing the system would probably need some work to make properly and that probably it was done and managed by a separate person that introduced movable generator and bodies, but here's my suggestion how it could look like to be more fitting to existing systems:

  • Right click any applicable world item and choosing "Pick up" option (same way as "Disassemble" is made) to pick item up item and equip it in both hands (similar to corpses and generators).
  • Right click item in your inventory and choose "Unequip" (which could be also renamed to anything else if you feel it's too confusing, such as "Place" or current "Drop") to bring the current "Place" option. The press "'X'  = cycle through object in inventory would no longer be needed as you are operating one item at time. I don't think it would bring issues with placing down your radios/walkie talkies from inventory, as you'd just have to pick up appropriate one anyway - actually that alone could be less confusing, as you know exactly which one you will be placing. Also, the current unusable "Drop" option on movable items would no longer be needed.
  • In addition to allowing you to rotate items upon placement, it's certainly possible to add "Rotate" option to right click menu, below the "Pick up" and "Disassembly" options - it would just let you rotate objects the same way the current rotate options allows you.
  • For multiple-tiled items, there are two options I see - one would be simply allowing you to pick them up wholly (which make sense for large paintings or mattresses, but less sense for large beds), second option would be automatic splitting to parts upon clicking "pick up" and using the current system. Keep in mind that there are most likely still some refinements to be done on that matter, as, unless something changed, you still can destroy a part of multi-tiled object with sledgehammer :).
    • EDIT: For starters, maybe how about if destroying a tile of an item with a sledgehammer automatically make the remaining tiles, minus the one actually destroyed appear on ground? This could apply to partially burnt items too, at least until some delay (to allow fire to spread). It would basically mean that without that part, the rest of the object fell apart. Alternatively simply make destroying one tile destroy the others automatically (and after a delay for fire to allow it to spread potentially). The remaining parts would have to be picked up one by one manually.

 

EDIT: I also realized that trap placing for mouse traps already uses a similar system, too - as long as you have a mouse trap in your inventory, you have to right click ground tile, choose "Place Trap" option and then the regular placement menu appears. I just think the rotation isn't available there. Putting traps could be unified in this new system as well, since they are basically not really different than radios, walkie-talkies or TVs. It would be nice to be able to rotate traps in addition to generators!

 

That way, it'd be bringing more streamlined, unified, less confusing and requiring a less clicks option to move furniture while using the systems that should already be in place!

 

Currently, the lightest items to pick up with furniture moving system are probably paintings or smallest chairs. While painting are cumbersome to move due their size, I fully understand it being unrealistic to be totally vulnerable while moving a single chair or being able to move more than one item - maybe it's possible to set it to certain items to only occupy one hand instead two then? That way you could either wield a one handed weapon while moving a light/easy to move object, or to be able to pick up two chairs with one trip. Actually, it would also be cool if the strength skill/trait check could be added to move some items one-handed that normally require two hands. I could imagine a 10 STR muscular character being able to be able to drag two zombie bodies in one trip for example (ormouse  drag one body one-handed while wielding a pistol/knife in other hand), a task terribly impossible for a weak filmsy character.

 

Also, while we're at it, I would suggest changing the disassembly recipe for TVs in place of the current right menu disassembly option. I'm not sure if you want to further expand it to placed radios and walkie talkies (which I am fine with), as it would require placing them on ground or appropriate surface first (some radios are preplaced in world, but I don't think any walkie talkies are, but they are generally found as a loot).

 

Also I would like to know if there are some hard to avoid technical reasons that could made impossible for this system to be implemented that I'm not aware of - or maybe I missed something? Discussions are also welcome, I'm just glad I could finally make a post about what was confusing me, as even if it won't be impossible/unwanted change, at least I know why :P.

 

P.S. Hopefully my post is not too messy, as I wasn't really up to proofreading it much.

 

EDIT: Down the road, when vehicles are added, it would be nice to be able to load them with furniture you want to move. I really like the idea of pushcarts/barrows/shopping carts to allowing to move items more reliably as @Unghin suggested with a nice picture :D.

Edited by Faalagorn
Added EDIT about multi-tiled furniture, sledgehammer and fire, traps, as well as vehicles/transportation

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I had these exact thoughts last night after posting about crafting interface suggestions.

 

This is a single function in rl ("move stuff," be it in bags or in world) that is carved up and inplemented over distinct systems. It's easy to understand how it has come to it's current state by necessity, but hopefully there are plans to unify this.

 

While I agree about my appreciation of the generator/corpse "equipped" item movement, I will also be sad if a day comes when I cannot load my bags full of mannequins and coffee tables at the mall to outfit my base in Muld :P  But for realism's sake, I woud favour a system in which excessively large items were given an "equip" tag for transport.* 

 

*Side note, this might include logs as well. I think logs should be carried in hands and should not be as "stackable" as they are now- 4 long trees are still 4 long trees when bound together. I think planks should be made the preferred transport form for wood, as it can be reasoned that they can be shortened, stacked and otherwise arranged in bags more efficiently than logs. It would also be necessary to "bundle/stack" planks for capacity reduction similar to current log stacking.

 

Tldr; I wish every function in game was accessed in context menu via right click for simplicity. Tutorial for new players: "How do you X?* "Right click."

Edited by trombonaught

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On 3/23/2017 at 5:23 PM, trombonaught said:

While I agree about my appreciation of the generator/corpse "equipped" item movement, I will also be sad if a day comes when I cannot load my bags full of mannequins and coffee tables at the mall to outfit my base in Muld :P  But for realism's sake, I woud favour a system in which excessively large items were given an "equip" tag for transport.* 

Yeah, it'll make outfitting the bases a bit tedious :P But on the other hand, it may have a positive side, by allowing to rotate generators? As a balance, it would be cool if one-handed holding could be implemented for a part of items, as I suggested, at least somewhere down the road.

 

On the other hand, I actually think that you could still be able to transport at least part of the items easily, given some combination - I'll have to test it in current game with corpses, but as they can be currently put in containers, you could place a bag on the ground, fill it with an item(s) and then equip the bag - though I'm not sure if the weight won't be still an issue :P.

 

EDIT: While browsing the small suggestion thread, I realized that the idea was also suggested loosely by @Unghin before;)

 

EDIT2: I just realized that "Place Trap" system for mouse traps at least already uses this item placement option. I'll update original post with the info.

Edited by Faalagorn
EDIT2

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