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35-Alive

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We released Build 35 four days ago, and it’s been awesome seeing folk running around and trying it out. If you missed the changelog then you can find the highlights of it here.

Clearly a fairly big proportion of this week is now making sure that we tackle the various bugs and issues discovered by the substantially increased numbers of people playing the new beta-turned-public version.

To this end we released 35.26 on Friday, and have today with the help of General Arcade addressed issues hampering survivor activity on certain Linux set-ups. It looks like we still might need to address issues with the new TransactionID system in MP too, alongside other bugs reported in the PZ Tracker.

We don’t want to update the main public build with fixes until we’re sure they’re watertight, however, so will be released 35.27 as a public IWBUMS beta in the coming days. Once everything is fixed up we will update non-Steam download services and move onto Build 36.

As a little bonus we will be including Turbo’s recent work on movable multi-tile items so it’s all playable in the  IWBUMS beta – specifically the ability to deconstruct large furniture and move them around in partial kit form. We’ve already covered this in a Mondoid but here’s the video of it in motion again:

MAP STUFF

Blindcoder anticipates that the new areas of Rosewood, March Point, the Rosewood Prison complex and all the rural areas in-between will be a part of the main Project Zomboid Mapping Project next week. Updates to the PZ online map require a lot of time and processing power, due to the vastness and detail of what’s being hosted.

Until then there’s a good annotated map on the TIS forum, while the recent release of our CartoZed tool  means that there are now handy ‘standard’ maps available for your viewing pleasure. Rosewood is NW, March Ridge is SE.

new area landscape

A full cartographic look at the full current PZ map, meanwhile, can be found here – and here also if you’d prefer a more isometric version. CartoZed essentially uses the details from our map files to create NESW maps of whatever we choose – roads, buildings, electrical items, bodies of water etc.

In the New Year we intend to start working on an in-game lootable map system, but clearly the tool also opens up a lot of avenues for our modding community. Speaking of…

ITEMZED

ItemZed3jpeg

Also from the desk of TurboTuTone comes ItemZed, a tool we’ll soon be releasing to help modders easily create, edit and refine in-game items and recipe scripts. The biggest pain in the arse for any item mod, or any item added by the developers, is the manual generation of these scripts so…

As you can see – ItemZed gives developers and modders alike control over item attributes, recipe contents, individual values, loot locations and spawn rates. We hope it’ll make life easier for everyone involved, and also allow for easier game balancing.

It’s almost done now, so keep an eye on the forums if you’re a modder interested in taking it for a spin!

MERRY XMAS!

Next Mondoid will be Boxing Day so Mondoid will be on our site but fairly limited what with the holidays. In the New Year we’ll be back with news on the other stuff still in the dev furnace and new stuff for the build(s) to come. Have a great Christmas if you’re celebrating!

SpiffoMascot_Winter

Featured image from Pechenyshkin! The Centralized Block of Italicised Text would like to direct your attention to the PZ Wiki should you feel like editing or amending something, and the PZ Mailing List that can send blogs like this and patch notes direct to your mailbox. We also live on Twitter right hereOur Discord is now open for chat and hijinks too. A general overview of the content of PZ builds past, in testing and upcoming can now be found here.

 

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8 hours ago, Queen Glory said:

Maybe ItemZed will help developers develope faster?

It's a tool for the devs, which they've added to so it can be released for modders :)

 

1 hour ago, Blasted_Taco said:

 

Well, at least we know that next year we are going to get the new animations, thats for sure.

Maybe. We don't give ETAs anymore, remember? ;)

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19 hours ago, Queen Glory said:

Maybe ItemZed will help developers develope faster?

 

I think the best option for them would to create tools for modders and leave the game to the community, they should focus on fixing bugs, finishing the "base" of the game and spend/invest the rest of the money they earned  from this and their time in some other field/project (I wouldn't early access for sure). Unless there's still some more to milk from this game. Sorry if I sound rude, that's my personal opinion.

I am sure a bunch of motivated modders would work faster and, I am afraid to say so, would do a better job in general.

 

Edited by Marco1

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1 hour ago, Marco1 said:

 

I think the best option for them would to create tools for modders and leave the game to the community, they should focus on fixing bugs, finishing the "base" of the game and spend/invest the rest of the money they earned  from this and their time in some other field/project (I wouldn't early access for sure). Unless there's still some more to milk from this game. Sorry if I sound rude, that's my personal opinion.

I am sure a bunch of motivated modders would work faster and, I am afraid to say so, would do a better job in general.

 

They already have access to the majority of the stuff the devs use.

 

Likewise, these tools are also for the devs and modders alike.

 

Mods may keep PZ alive after development's done, but they set out to build their own game, not just a sandbox for modders and those impatient with how fast they work . . .

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4 hours ago, Butter Bot said:

They already have access to the majority of the stuff the devs use.

 

Likewise, these tools are also for the devs and modders alike.

Oh, really? :) 

 

I wouldn't like invest time in something that has high chances of being not compatible with final version.

Like you would not spend 100+ hours playing while you know your save won't be compatible with the next update, that maybe is out tomorrow.

Here I read a lot of people talking, but a very few of them really playing the game for hundreds of hours and I am not talking people playing online with cheat modes, I mean people playing SP in IWBUMS...

I know what this games lacks because I've been playing it and be sure it hasn't changed much, for sure not 3 years-worth-of-development (and doesn't matter, if small team, one guy coding or else, it's not MY problem) in a normal world, if we start from the steam release, of course. Compared with when it first came out...even worse :)

 

 

Quote

Mods may keep PZ alive after development's done, but they set out to build their own game, not just a sandbox for modders and those impatient with how fast they work . . .

Ok, last line explains your view on this.

Define Impatient in years, define slow development as well, please.

Consider how they're struggling with "simple" things, wouldn't a sandbox for modders make more sense? And may be a more realistic goal?

Can't believe how little this games has changed...And it's not about being impatient.

I couldn't care less if they want to finish it, it's their choice. Sometimes you can be slow even if you're giving your best, at this point it's not an opinion it's a fact.

 

 

Edited by Marco1

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27 minutes ago, Marco1 said:

Oh, really? :) 

 

I wouldn't like invest time in something that has high chances of being not compatible with final version.

Like you would not spend 100+ hours playing while you know your save won't be compatible with the next update, that maybe is out tomorrow.

Here I read a lot of people talking, but a very few of them really playing the game for hundreds of hours and I am not talking people playing online with cheat modes, I mean people playing SP in IWBUMS...

I know what this games lacks because I've been playing it and be sure it hasn't changed much, for sure not 3 years-worth-of-development (and doesn't matter, if small team, one guy coding or else, it's not MY problem) in a normal world, if we start from the steam release, of course. Compared with when it first came out...even worse :)

 

 

Ok, last line explains your view on this.

Define Impatient in years, define slow development as well, please.

Consider how they're struggling with "simple" things, wouldn't a sandbox for modders make more sense? And may be a more realistic goal?

Can't believe how little this games has changed...And it's not about being impatient.

I couldn't care less if they want to finish it, it's their choice. Sometimes you can be slow even if you're giving your best, at this point it's not an opinion it's a fact.

 

 

The game's incomplete and in early access. If you're not comfortable investing your time into it, then that's understandable.  Foruntately, TIS works their ass off to ensure save and mod compatibility where possible -- in three years, the worst that's happened is someone lost their canned food.

 

People don't want PZ to turn into Gerry's Mod -- they want the game finished. Mods are great, but not the sole reason PZ exists, and slowing down development even further (delaying animations and NPCs) for creative mode won't do anyone any good.

 

If the past three years of progress from a much bigger team than present its first three years is "little change," then tehre's nothing really to discuss. You're welcome to your opinion, but I hope you'll seek some perspective and, maybe, play the game a bit. The old demo is still up on ModDB and quite playable -- take a peak, see how the game played for its first 2-3 years. You know, before Steam.

 

We may be slow, but at least that's resulted in a game good enough that most people care about it's progress, even if some shouldn't have bought it when they did, or lash out because of it.

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@Marco1 unless you yourself are a game developer, I don't see how you could properly judge that the content is "for sure not 3-years-worth-of-development". If you do have the keys to say so, please share them. If you don't, I'll use your own words: please define "3-years-worth-of-development" in the PZ context. And try not to mix up your personal expectations and what is actually achievable in that time span for a TIS-sized team.

 

Also, please define "simple" when you say they struggle on "simple" things. I'm curious about that one.

 

To make things clear, I'm not saying that you can't say development feels slow. I'd say that too, but I can't judge if it's ACTUALLY slow or just on a normal pace given what they've been working on. But your "I know it all, mark my words, I know what I'm talking about" doesn't help taking your allegations into consideration.

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1 hour ago, Teesee said:

@Marco1 unless you yourself are a game developer, I don't see how you could properly judge that the content is "for sure not 3-years-worth-of-development". If you do have the keys to say so, please share them. If you don't, I'll use your own words: please define "3-years-worth-of-development" in the PZ context. And try not to mix up your personal expectations and what is actually achievable in that time span for a TIS-sized team.

 

Also, please define "simple" when you say they struggle on "simple" things. I'm curious about that one.

 

To make things clear, I'm not saying that you can't say development feels slow. I'd say that too, but I can't judge if it's ACTUALLY slow or just on a normal pace given what they've been working on. But your "I know it all, mark my words, I know what I'm talking about" doesn't help taking your allegations into consideration.

 

When we talk about 3 years, we are talking since the game came out on Steam or when the game shifted gears to push the 3D aspect of the game (plus the save option)? In total i think the game has been in dev for 6 years by now, but there has been a fuckload of progress ever since then.

 

As for the development speed, everyone pretty much agrees that its slow, even the devs said so, thus no ETAs, for example the animations, a little screw up here and there makes everything slow down a lot, the motto always is: "Shit happens" when it comes to game dev.

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Not that I don't want to reply to you guys (Teesee, Butter Bot and Blasted_Taco), but I think it would be a waste of time for all of us.

 

I wrote all I had to say in my first post, if you didn't get what I mean or you disagree, well...good to know.

In the second one I tried to explain my point a bit more, but didn't work well, I guess.

Let me just say, it's not what I want, it's what I think devs should consider instead of dragging this longer than necessary.

It's not about my expectations, but...expectations. If you expect nothing or very little, if you think EA is like throwing money at people because you can, well, good for you.

If you think it took three years to DEVS to go from point A to point B and you understand there's a long way (considering what this game is still missing) ahead of them, maybe you have, in my opinion, all the right to wonder if you're actually going to play a final version of PZ one day (possibly before 2020).

Edited by Marco1

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4 hours ago, Blasted_Taco said:

 

When we talk about 3 years, we are talking since the game came out on Steam or when the game shifted gears to push the 3D aspect of the game (plus the save option)? In total i think the game has been in dev for 6 years by now, but there has been a fuckload of progress ever since then.

 

As for the development speed, everyone pretty much agrees that its slow, even the devs said so, thus no ETAs, for example the animations, a little screw up here and there makes everything slow down a lot, the motto always is: "Shit happens" when it comes to game dev.

4 years, iirc.

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1 hour ago, Marco1 said:

Not that I don't want to reply to you guys (Teesee, Butter Bot and Blasted_Taco), but I think it would be a waste of time for all of us.

 

I wrote all I had to say in my first post, if you didn't get what I mean or you disagree, well...good to know.

In the second one I tried to explain my point a bit more, but didn't work well, I guess.

Let me just say, it's not what I want, it's what I think devs should consider instead of dragging this longer than necessary.

It's not about my expectations, but...expectations. If you expect nothing or very little, if you think EA is like throwing money at people because you can, well, good for you.

If you think it took three years to DEVS to go from point A to point B and you understand there's a long way (considering what this game is still missing) ahead of them, maybe you have, in my opinion, all the right to wonder if you're actually going to play a final version of PZ one day (possibly before 2020).

The devs are using the methodology they are right now because

a) It works and

b) It's sustainable (Won't run out of money before game is finished)

 

The devs have been very, very clear on the features that need to have landed before they call the game done. Those features aren't in yet. Therefore, the game isn't done, and it will receive full attention from team TIS.

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On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 8:53 AM, Marco1 said:

Oh, really? :) 

 

I wouldn't like invest time in something that has high chances of being not compatible with final version.

Like you would not spend 100+ hours playing while you know your save won't be compatible with the next update, that maybe is out tomorrow.

Here I read a lot of people talking, but a very few of them really playing the game for hundreds of hours and I am not talking people playing online with cheat modes, I mean people playing SP in IWBUMS...

I know what this games lacks because I've been playing it and be sure it hasn't changed much, for sure not 3 years-worth-of-development (and doesn't matter, if small team, one guy coding or else, it's not MY problem) in a normal world, if we start from the steam release, of course. Compared with when it first came out...even worse :)

 

 

Ok, last line explains your view on this.

Define Impatient in years, define slow development as well, please.

Consider how they're struggling with "simple" things, wouldn't a sandbox for modders make more sense? And may be a more realistic goal?

Can't believe how little this games has changed...And it's not about being impatient.

I couldn't care less if they want to finish it, it's their choice. Sometimes you can be slow even if you're giving your best, at this point it's not an opinion it's a fact.

 

 

I actually DO spend  100+ hours playing characters in SP with saves that I EXPECT will not be compatible with future releases. I also delete them, myself, at times before they become Zombie snacks. I, for one, would be greatly disappointed if dev. dropped this and left it as a sandbox. There's so much left to do.

 

As someone who HAS written programs, I understand the idea that you can't place deadlines on a project. If you do, you get stuff like Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows ME, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows 2007, Windows Vista, Etc., Etc., Etc. Releasing things because they have reached a deadline is selling broken crap.

 

Macro1, you do not appear to be paying attention. This game is supposed to have NPCs. Something that, quite frankly, SP is really missing. Moders aren't going to be able to give us that. There are a number of other elements, such as vehicles, armor, which will need to be incorporated into the mechanics; again, something the moding community will not, and should not have to do. Perhaps, you simply aren't the type of person who should get involved with "Early access".

Edited by Erkinwine
Typing correction

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12 hours ago, Erkinwine said:

I actually DO spend  100+ hours playing characters in SP with saves that I EXPECT will not be compatible with future releases. I also delete them, myself, at times before they become Zombie snacks. I, for one, would be greatly disappointed if dev. dropped this and left it as a sandbox. There's so much left to do.

 

I meant: I play  Project Zomboid regardless of the fact my save could not be good anymore, because I like the game, I play the game and I am not one of those that play it for 10 minutes and treat me as a "hater".

I never said I want that and of course I would be disappointed as well. However I am trying to be realistic. Yes, a lot to do and that's exactly why I said that. Considering there's so much to do I have little hope I'll see PZ reach its potential or come even close, well, at least before 202X (at this pace)...

 

Quote

As someone who HAS written programs, I understand the idea that you can't place deadlines on a project. If you do, you get stuff like Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows ME, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows 2007, Windows Vista, Etc., Etc., Etc. Releasing things because they have reached a deadline is selling broken crap.

 

I understand that as well, but they don't even try... If you know what you're doing you know if you can do it and approximately how long it will take. I am sure a lot of us at work have to deal with projects and deadlines, knowing your staff, their skills and everything, but, hey, that was and has never been my point.

Now, I know really well a single line of code could ruin your day, but hey: do you think it will take 1 month? Say it will take 2 even 3, we'll never know if they'll spend the rest of time drinking coffee and chatting.

Otherwise it looks to me you have no idea about what you're doing.

Also TIS is not Microsoft and PZ is not Windows...

And you know what? I couldn't care less about ETA, I don't even want ETAs. I never asked for ETAs. So you're talking to the wrong person.

My opininion is just: at this pace they'll never be able to deliver a full game, at least, once again, anytime soon. I hope there won't be a guy asking me what I mean for full game, like for the "simple things" in my previous post. I can reply, of course, but please make an effort to understand my point first.

 

 

Quote

Macro1, you do not appear to be paying attention. This game is supposed to have NPCs. Something that, quite frankly, SP is really missing. Moders aren't going to be able to give us that. There are a number of other elements, such as vehicles, armor, which will need to be incorporated into the mechanics; again, something the moding community will not, and should not have to do. Perhaps, you simply aren't the type of person who should get involved with "Early access".

 

No No, I pay attention, a lot. Supposed to have NPCs? Yes.

Ok, does PZ look to you like a game ready for NPCs? No. Not even close.

There are so many things this game needs, NPCs are last of my concerns and for how this game is made I guess it should be one of the last things to come "to life". They're too much connected to how the "final" game will be and it would be too complicated (if not planned properly and not "flexible" enough to adapt to serious change of code) and a waste of time to complete them now and change half their code later.

 

I'd prefer to have less in a reasonable time, not even saying tomorrow or next year, than a lot NEVER (or really really too late). That was my point.

 

Early Access, I wrote many times, for me is not charity.

TIS are lucky EA exists, they got the money without having a "final product" to offer and, be sure, many people could only dream that kind of opportunity in their line of work.

So, let me be one of those annoying fools here to remind them there's a game to finish. And forgive if I am arrogant saying this game lacks a lot of features to be considered "complete" and in the last 3 years changes were not "worth" the wait.

Please don't let me define "worth" or "weigh" the changes so far, it's something you get or don't.

The part that some people don't seem to get is: when you know how many things this game still lacks and how long it took to get here, unless something "magical" happens this game won't be complete any time soon, I mean years, not days or months. Years, many, more than you would consider "enough" for a game like PZ. That's my point.

Edited by Marco1
corrections

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On 22/12/2016 at 0:20 AM, kirrus said:

The devs are using the methodology they are right now because

a) It works and

b) It's sustainable (Won't run out of money before game is finished)

 

The devs have been very, very clear on the features that need to have landed before they call the game done. Those features aren't in yet. Therefore, the game isn't done, and it will receive full attention from team TIS.

 

I am sure they did their math, it wasn't even a problem for me, not sure why you're telling me this.

Thanks for your reply and your time, of course.

 

I am aware of all of that, my concern is the pace, that's all.  I don't think finishing this game is their priority now, so I am quite sure it will be even "worse" when PZ will become "just" a previous project they still provide support for.

Edited by Marco1
corrections

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" If you know what you're doing you know if you can do it and approximately how long it will take "

PZ is a huge game, resulting in complications when it comes to doing even "simple" things. This means timeframes are unpredictable and unexpected problems will crop up. The bigger the change, the less predictable its timeframe will be.

 

" My opininion is just: at this pace they'll never be able to deliver a full game, at least, once again, anytime soon."
 

To me, that's not a problem so long as the game continues to grow. Those that bought into Early Access expecting a pre-order experience or assuming the game would be completed in a short period of time despite its scope and team size will need to adjust their expectations, as TIS can only work so fast.

 

" Supposed to have NPCs? Yes."
 

For the final version, yes. For the final version, there's still three or four big things that need to be put into the game, otherwise we wouldn't be in early access now.

 

That's the whole point of EA -- to fund the development of a project that's incomplete. In exchange, you get the game as it currently stands and any updates to it.

 

If that's not good enough, then you've made a mistake buying this and should not have -- though I'd hope the hours you spent in game was enough to justify the cost, for most, it'll be a hell of a lot more time than they get from more expensive games.

 

" Early Access, I wrote many times, for me is not charity. "

 

You pay money. You get game. You accepted that the product was incomplete at purchase and you knowingly bought a product that might never be finished.

 

This isn't a charitable donation or an investment. It's a straight exchange.

 

" TIS are lucky EA exists, they got the money without having a "final product" to offer and, be sure, many people could only dream that kind of opportunity in their line of work. "

 

Big companies are happy to sell you "final products" that are far from final, as well.  That TIS chooses not to emulate them just to keep you happy about the "pace," thanks to the support EA and alpha funding, shouldn't be such a severe downside.

 

" I mean years, not days or months. Years, many, more than you would consider "enough" for a game like PZ. That's my point. "

For you, maybe. I expected years when I bought it in 2011 and that's before the game's scope increased ludicrously to include the current public version of the game. PZ should never have been this big -- it should have been a tiny little game like the demo that people play for a few hours then move on. No MP, no saving, no huge maps, no sandbox, no modding support, no Lua, no 3D models, no pre-rendered animations, no farming, no seasons, no erosion, no smooth lighting, no shaders, no zoom, no vehicles, no "creative mode" and assorted mod tools released or in production  -- just a pert little story and some free-form play when the story ends. That's how I envisioned the game that I thought would take years back in 2011.

But no, now customers get almost as much entertainment from the damn thing as AAA titles and spend hundreds and thousands of hours in it -- single player or MP. It's touched on every survival aspect it can possibly touch on, to the point where very little is ever "new' anymore and people wait with baited breath for the two or three things that the game doesn't have while getting upset about incremental changes to what's already in game.

 

So I guess we'll all just have to accept that it'll be years after all, won't we? Because how do you expect them to just "finish" it any faster?
 

Your disappointment isn't going to change that. No one's is -- at worst, the constant expression of it will just further injure morale and maybe things will go a bit slower, or maybe the game simply will never be finished, but that's what happens when you gamble your $10 -- or in the case of TIS's staff, part of their  working lives.

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32 minutes ago, Butter Bot said:

Big companies are happy to sell you "final products" that are far from final, as well. 

 

qa1y6zvrsxs3veen1hku.jpg

 

I don't know what you speak of!

Edited by RoboMat

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9 hours ago, Marco1 said:

So, let me be one of those annoying fools here to remind them there's a game to finish. And forgive if I am arrogant saying this game lacks a lot of features to be considered "complete" and in the last 3 years changes were not "worth" the wait.

Please don't let me define "worth" or "weigh" the changes so far, it's something you get or don't.

The part that some people don't seem to get is: when you know how many things this game still lacks and how long it took to get here, unless something "magical" happens this game won't be complete any time soon, I mean years, not days or months. Years, many, more than you would consider "enough" for a game like PZ. That's my point.

So it isn't done tomorrow or even next year. Ask yourself this, since you claim to spend a great deal of time playing it - "Do you enjoy that time?" If so, why are you bitching? You are getting what you paid for. I've been on board since late 2014, sot that's two years, now. Do you know how many games can actually keep my attention for 2 years? Outside of the Civilization franchise, there are probably fewer than five, I certainly could not list five.

 

Now, over that two years there have been a handful of new patches released. Each one feels like an expansion and renews my vigor and excitement for the game. And I get all this for one low price paid a number of years ago. Quite frankly, if the game takes until 204X, I would not be disappointed, because I would have a game that I have played for 25 years.

 

-- Gosh, and my wife thinks I'm too cynical.

 

Let me add, that if the Dev. team stopped work on PZ tomorrow, it would be sad news, but I would certainly feel I got my money's worth. To the Dev. team: Please don't stop. I love this game, appreciate your hard work and look forward to playing Build 36 and beyond.

Edited by Erkinwine
Additional note.

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