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Crazy ManMan

building a well

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It should require both high carpentry and some farming for balance purposes, but I would like to be able to build the well, mostly because it is a neat prop like the little outhouses we also can not build (and infinite water without having to boil every time is kinda nice if you have been surviving a long time). It should take a bucket, a shovel, plenty of stones, rope, a few boards/logs, and a long amount of time to make it (digging a big hole takes a long time and is much work). Perhaps the engineer could even build some of those hand pump wells if they can find enough piping. It would need to be hard enough that building rain barrels is still worth one's time.

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Sounds like by the time you've got the supplies to make a well, you'd already have plenty of water from stockpiles/bowls on the ground/collecting barrels, not to mention the futility if the player had made the wise choice to make a base by an existing well or body of water.

 

With the addition of some ponds around Muldraugh as of one of the more recent IWBUMS, I think it wouldn't be worth the effort of making a well when you can just hike over to infinite water-- not to mention how dangerous digging a well by yourself would be. If it is added, I think that it should take an extremely long time to do while risking injury (like how digging farm plots with no shovel or trowel hurts your hands). Considering the rural area, you'd also probably be risking chemical contamination in groundwater by way of crop pesticides. Maybe this would wear off after a few months. so players can't immediately rush a well without getting sick?

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20 minutes ago, hunger john said:

Sounds like by the time you've got the supplies to make a well, you'd already have plenty of water from stockpiles/bowls on the ground/collecting barrels, not to mention the futility if the player had made the wise choice to make a base by an existing well or body of water.

 

With the addition of some ponds around Muldraugh as of one of the more recent IWBUMS, I think it wouldn't be worth the effort of making a well when you can just hike over to infinite water-- not to mention how dangerous digging a well by yourself would be. If it is added, I think that it should take an extremely long time to do while risking injury (like how digging farm plots with no shovel or trowel hurts your hands). Considering the rural area, you'd also probably be risking chemical contamination in groundwater by way of crop pesticides. Maybe this would wear off after a few months. so players can't immediately rush a well without getting sick?

Having well water and living in a rural area near a number of farms (and having just tested my water a week ago) I can tell you most of the time the ground filters out the majority of the pesticides, so risks of that are nominal even if rather near a farm. Current infinite water sources in game have to be boiled every time which is kind of a pain after a few months of survival, but either way I would like this as a prop at the very least.

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15 minutes ago, Crazy ManMan said:

Having well water and living in a rural area near a number of farms (and having just tested my water a week ago) I can tell you most of the time the ground filters out the majority of the pesticides, so risks of that are nominal even if rather near a farm. Current infinite water sources in game have to be boiled every time which is kind of a pain after a few months of survival, but either way I would like this as a prop at the very least.

Does your well have lining? I'm pretty sure that you'd have to boil well water anyways if it doesn't have any sort of lining, and it seems really, REALLY unfeasible for one or even two or three people to construct a concrete well with some scrounged supplies and no construction equipment.

 

Might be a little off topic, but back in 2009 I was also living in a rural (read: poor and remote) area, and our well water was very low quality-- what I can only assume to be a result of poor construction resulted in light orange, putrid smelling water. While of course my personal experience isn't indicative of the quality of wells constructed by survivors of the apocalypse in the middle of Kentucky, it shouldn't be overlooked just how easy poor placement and construction can result in water that's the same, if not worse, than rain or lake water.

 

The radio also mentions chemical testing taking place near Knox County, so there's an additional reason not to go digging holes for drinking water. 

 

Simulated C8 poisoning in Project Zomboid when?

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This is one of those suggestions that, while being interesting, almost contradicts some of the major gameplay themes we see in PZ. One thing that I think makes PZ unique is that no matter how late in the game you get, you still need to work hard at just about everything. Sure, you can kill zombies easier, run faster, shoot more and melee less, but nothing is done for you. You have to boil your own water (or have built your base out in the middle of nowhere near a well), grow or find your own food, build or maintain your own shelter. At no point in the game is anything automatic, and at no point is there a "build this to have this essential need met". Generators are as close as you get, and even those are a) currently almost useless and b) always run out of gas pretty quickly and therefore aren't even close to being a semi-permanent solution. The well would be a semi-permanent solution to getting water, and while it would make end-game gameplay easier, I'm not sure end-game gameplay really needs to get any easier.

 

A footnote I just thought of: The "knock out the stairs and use sheet rope" could be considered an exception to this idea, but frankly I have a feeling the devs have an eventual nerf coming for that anyways, so I'll just consider it under the category of "broken" for right now.

Edited by SaltfuricACid

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45 minutes ago, hunger john said:

Does your well have lining? I'm pretty sure that you'd have to boil well water anyways if it doesn't have any sort of lining, and it seems really, REALLY unfeasible for one or even two or three people to construct a concrete well with some scrounged supplies and no construction equipment.

 

Might be a little off topic, but back in 2009 I was also living in a rural (read: poor and remote) area, and our well water was very low quality-- what I can only assume to be a result of poor construction resulted in light orange, putrid smelling water. While of course my personal experience isn't indicative of the quality of wells constructed by survivors of the apocalypse in the middle of Kentucky, it shouldn't be overlooked just how easy poor placement and construction can result in water that's the same, if not worse, than rain or lake water.

 

The radio also mentions chemical testing taking place near Knox County, so there's an additional reason not to go digging holes for drinking water. 

 

Simulated C8 poisoning in Project Zomboid when?

Ground normally acts as a natural filter for some contaminents as long as the well itself does not get contaminated (like a corpse falling in there or something), but it needs to be deep enough. Additionally considering how much bigger the map is going to be I think there is likely safe ground water around. There are of course a number of other factors at hand, but considering 18th century well were build before all this tech it could be possible. I am also thinking since this is after all a game it could be simplified some, I mean there is no way somebody could go for zero construction experience to building multi-story forts in a matter of like 2 weeks either but it can be done in game.

 

 

9 minutes ago, SaltfuricACid said:

This is one of those suggestions that, while being interesting, almost contradicts some of the major gameplay themes we see in PZ. One thing that I think makes PZ unique is that no matter how late in the game you get, you still need to work hard at just about everything. Sure, you can kill zombies easier, run faster, shoot more and melee less, but nothing is done for you. You have to boil your own water (or have built your base out in the middle of nowhere near a well), grow or find your own food, build or maintain your own shelter. At no point in the game is anything automatic, and at no point is there a "build this to have this essential need met". Generators are as close as you get, and even those are a) currently almost useless and b) always run out of gas pretty quickly and therefore aren't even close to being a semi-permanent solution. The well would be a semi-permanent solution to getting water, and while it would make end-game gameplay easier, I'm not sure end-game gameplay really needs to get any easier.

 

A footnote I just thought of: The "knock out the stairs and use sheet rope" could be considered an exception to this idea, but frankly I have a feeling the devs have an eventual nerf coming for that anyways, so I'll just consider it under the category of "broken" for right now.

I am not sure that is intentional though, as this game is still in development. I assume there will be many more options for things that one could do in the future, and honestly I do not consider repetitively boiling water while just standing there a part of gameplay, it is just grinding, which I do not think is always a bad thing, but in this case I do not see a downside to having easy access to clean water if one is willing to put a large amount of work into making that access available. I mean, even in real life with ones own two hands one could automate water purification with a simple charcoal filter put on top of the rain barrel. It would just need to be replaced once a year if it were set up correctly and is made of things one could easily make themselves.

Edited by Crazy ManMan

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3 minutes ago, Crazy ManMan said:

I am not sure that is intentional though, as this game is still in development. I assume there will be many more options for things that one could do in the future, and honestly I do not consider repetitively boiling water while just standing there a part of gameplay, it is just grinding, which I do not think is always a bad thing, but in this case I do not see a downside to having easy access to clean water if one is willing to put a large amount of work into making that access available. I mean, even in real life with ones own two hands one could automate water purification with a simple charcoal filter put on top of the rain barrel. It would just need to be replaced once a year if it were set up correctly and is made of things one could easily make themselves.

I didn't think about that. This is a very good point. I suppose we'll have to wait and see how the devs decided to shape the currently relatively formless "end-game".

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I kind of like this idea, but with the way construction and such is currently implemented, I don't think it would be possible. What I mean is that digging the well alone could take hours. And currently if your building something and you move, it fails. There is no working on it part way, it's either spend all your time in that spot motionless, or move and loose all progress. That's not that big a deal for something short like nailing a board to a window, but somethings hours long would have all kinds of complications. What if you get attacked by zombies, or if you have to change a bandage, or any number of things. Like I said, I like the idea, but it would require some changes to work.

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2 hours ago, TheWraithPlayer said:

I kind of like this idea, but with the way construction and such is currently implemented, I don't think it would be possible. What I mean is that digging the well alone could take hours. And currently if your building something and you move, it fails. There is no working on it part way, it's either spend all your time in that spot motionless, or move and loose all progress. That's not that big a deal for something short like nailing a board to a window, but somethings hours long would have all kinds of complications. What if you get attacked by zombies, or if you have to change a bandage, or any number of things. Like I said, I like the idea, but it would require some changes to work.

I assume it would work kind of like how books can be half read in game and do not have to be read all in one sitting anymore.

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On 5/4/2017 at 8:16 PM, Crazy ManMan said:

I assume it would work kind of like how books can be half read in game and do not have to be read all in one sitting anymore.

My idea for that was the possibility of having to build it in stages. Here is the basics of what that would look like in this case.

1. Dig the hole

2. Add the stones

3. At the roof/cover

4. Add the bucket and the rope

That's pretty much it. At some point you'd have to wait for the water to come, but other than that, those four steps would cover it. And the beauty behind it is that you can do step 1 and 2 on the same day, then not mess with it  for a while, then finish it later.  The construction mechanics wouldn't have to be altered, and it would all be good! :)

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13 hours ago, TheWraithPlayer said:

My idea for that was the possibility of having to build it in stages. Here is the basics of what that would look like in this case.

1. Dig the hole

2. Add the stones

3. At the roof/cover

4. Add the bucket and the rope

That's pretty much it. At some point you'd have to wait for the water to come, but other than that, those four steps would cover it. And the beauty behind it is that you can do step 1 and 2 on the same day, then not mess with it  for a while, then finish it later.  The construction mechanics wouldn't have to be altered, and it would all be good! :)

From what I know about wells they usually fill up pretty quickly if you build them in the correct location, but I am not expert either. I know if I stuck a well in the ground at my house it would fill up within a few minutes as there is plenty of water in our soil. Actually quite ironically if I dug a shallow well it would fill up but if I dug a deep well I would likely hit a sand pocket and it would drain itself, so it is all about location. I think in general though being able to build things in stages is an interesting idea. Maybe more things could have this mechanic.

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while I do think building a well could be cool, I feel like its something that needs to be added with care. That said if you place a sink under a water barrel and one tile to the left it will take water from the barrel and purify it automatically when you fill stuff from it.

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Wells should be one of those "Late game goals" that is paired with making sure you have food, construction and other misc objectives. I don't think it is cheating to have a well anyways, since you can literally get a backpack, go from house to house and garbage bin to garbage bin finding every single garbage bag you can and making Rain Collecting Barrels. I currently have 6 of the second tier barrels, I have never really gone below 4 barrels (this is before I modded). That is also not mentioning the West Point River, and the ponds.

 

As I have stated in previous threads, the game does need longer-term goals. Surviving zombies is not actually a huge problem of the main game and when cars are added, they will be even less so out in the boonies which will be 100% viable to live in. Zombies are good for making areas dangerous, and certainly a threat when you need to loot a book or some gas, but those are mostly for newer players. Experienced players don't find zombies to be much of a threat after the first month of the game, where weapon skills are 6 levels in and I can sprint for a long time.

 

Having projects like "building and farming" is good, and having objectives like "In order to stop using my 15 water collection barrels that makes water conservation pointless, let's build a well" is a fantastic time sink. Hydrocraft currently has a "Build a well" option that requires a TON of resources.

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Wells could be made available only through a highly leveled community of players creating an endgame benefit to collecting an engineer, an electrician, a metalworker, a carpenter, a mason, and a couple more. Just blatantly make it unconstructable without 5 distinct professions leveled up to max or something. 

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55 minutes ago, thiosk said:

Wells could be made available only through a highly leveled community of players creating an endgame benefit to collecting an engineer, an electrician, a metalworker, a carpenter, a mason, and a couple more. Just blatantly make it unconstructable without 5 distinct professions leveled up to max or something. 

Wells are not really highly complex things to make. The main thing one has to worry about is if the water is contaminated or not and whether or not there si actually water close enough to the surface where they are currently digging. At least the oldest fashion wells are basically just a hole in the ground with a rock wall holding it open. Hand pump wells are a little more compliceted but if you know how they work are still quite simplistic in nature. The hardest thing about them is the huge amount of work digging a decent hole is.

Edited by Crazy ManMan

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