Darkwhip Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Hi guys, so since a few days I've been creative only during late hours of the night (23:10 PM right now) and I was thinking about how PZ was handling targeting and began to think how we could change it or improve it. So first, I remembered RJ who spoke about a turn based mod for PZ and I thought « Uh yeah, I can't see how else we could handle better the aiming with guns without using a turn based system » So yeah. the main problem in PZ now is the targeting with guns and I think I might have two solutions to the problem. 1. A simple target system, just like any typical MMOs out there, when you pass your mouse over someone, its character highlights and when left clicking on it, a small "profile" of it appears up the screen. That person is now "selected" as your target of interest/interaction. While selecting someone and raising/aiming and attacking, the attacks will be focused on the target and not randomly change targets except if its in the way. Small bonus, when close enough, a small arrow can be clicked to see possible interactions. 2. Radius, while raising your weapon or aiming, a highlighted radius representing the range of your weapon's reach appears in front of where your character is aiming. Withing that radius, your mouse becomes a target icon, anything alive withing that radius can be attacked/shot if clicked close enough or accurately on it. It's important to keep in mind that if anything gets in the way, that thing/person will get hit by the attack and not the target. So these are my ideas, They were quick thought, I admit they appeared in to my mind suddenly out of nowhere. The goal is to create something accurate, easy to use and efficient, but also quick. Bonus idea: While aiming with a scope, the range of using CTRL camera move, should be upgraded when holding a gun equipped with a scope, (If not already the case) but the radius should be waaaaaayyy less wide, I think it would also make sense for binoculars. Sincerely yours, Darkwhip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trombonaught Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) I see the need for it but it will be challenging to find a system that doesn't negatively impact player immersion. A soft auto-lock might be nice, wherein the cursor gravitates to hold over a zed while one holds the aim button. Any range indicators would IMO kill the immersion. Bullets should be presumed to be capable of coverng screen distance while melee weapon range should be indicated by watching your character swing. Edit: by soft lock I mean if you move the cursor over a zed it will want to stay there, but easily move on if you make it and only hold on a zed if the cursor is brought overtop of the zed. Examples are out there... but escape me for now Edited November 10, 2016 by trombonaught Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demonic_Kat Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 There's been threads about this before, and I believe the reason why it wouldn't work is because it's almost random if/when a bullet hits (unless this has changed recently). It's like the game takes into account which direction you're shooting, if there's anything in that general direction, what your aiming skill is, and then rolls the D20 to see if you hit. trombonaught 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltfuricACid Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Honestly, while this would be useful in most settings, I don't think it holds that much use in PZ. I mean, in the end, which zombie you're shooting in the horde isn't really that important. Sure, you may want to shoot the closest zombie and the game may not be "targeting" it, but honestly I'm not sure whether the game truly targets an enemy at all, or if it just looks at stuff in that direction and applies some sort of distance and direction based modifier to the chance of hitting it. Cool idea, but a lot more effort and potentially immersion breaking (not to mention jarring for players used to the "point character in right direction and fire" method) than it's worth in my opinion. trombonaught 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkwhip Posted December 13, 2016 Author Share Posted December 13, 2016 (edited) On 04/12/2016 at 4:39 PM, SaltfuricACid said: Honestly, while this would be useful in most settings, I don't think it holds that much use in PZ. I mean, in the end, which zombie you're shooting in the horde isn't really that important. Sure, you may want to shoot the closest zombie and the game may not be "targeting" it, but honestly I'm not sure whether the game truly targets an enemy at all, or if it just looks at stuff in that direction and applies some sort of distance and direction based modifier to the chance of hitting it. Cool idea, but a lot more effort and potentially immersion breaking (not to mention jarring for players used to the "point character in right direction and fire" method) than it's worth in my opinion. You're making a good point here, but it's not just about zombies here, it's also for PVP. How do you focus a specific enemy player (Or enemy NPC for later) with the actual system if they're more than 5 regrouped ? I'm just saying that we need a mechanic that allows us to focus a specific target. Because for example, you see an enemy group, one of them has a sniper, another one a shotgun and the rest a pistol. We can agree that in the end they are all deadly, but focusing the sniper first and then the shotgun guy and then the rest could be a nice strategy, it feels silly to have to say " Uh fuck, I missed the sniper because the system shot the other dude with a pistol instead " (Or a zombie in the way). Anyway, 'Night Edited December 13, 2016 by Darkwhip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaGrey Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Personally, i think targeting should remain the purview of the character, not the player, with the exception of perhaps being able to select targets with a certain radius of the mouse. Perhaps the weapon and skill should affect that radius so you can get the more accurate targeting you want, without giving full control the player. The system already does this to an extent with the highest levels of aiming, in which the size of the targeting angle decreases. Priority is always given to the nearest target, though I'm unsure how or if it uses a different process for player characters. The game doesn't currently draw a vector from the gun to the target and hit anything in its path, further complicating changes like this to the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkwhip Posted December 13, 2016 Author Share Posted December 13, 2016 9 hours ago, Butter Bot said: Personally, i think targeting should remain the purview of the character, not the player, with the exception of perhaps being able to select targets with a certain radius of the mouse. Perhaps the weapon and skill should affect that radius so you can get the more accurate targeting you want, without giving full control the player. The system already does this to an extent with the highest levels of aiming, in which the size of the targeting angle decreases. Priority is always given to the nearest target, though I'm unsure how or if it uses a different process for player characters. The game doesn't currently draw a vector from the gun to the target and hit anything in its path, further complicating changes like this to the system. There is many other games who have proper targeting system, so I can't believe it's actually really difficult to make Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaGrey Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 . . . What's that have to do with anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkwhip Posted December 14, 2016 Author Share Posted December 14, 2016 (edited) 17 hours ago, Butter Bot said: . . . What's that have to do with anything? Well the fact you said it was "difficult" to make. I really doubt making a proper targeting system is a hardcore challenge for the devs to achieve. So if other developpers were able to do it, I'm convinced the PZ team can do it too. Edited December 14, 2016 by Darkwhip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltfuricACid Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 (edited) I don't believe the issue is one of difficulty. The devs can do it, yes. However, that takes time. First, in PZ, if there's really a group of players attacking you, you're not going to be "Oh, I'll kill this one, and then this one"... because you'll be dead. That being said, I think that the existing system, as we believe it works, works fine. As I seem to understand it, it targets the closest enemy in the direction you're aiming, and that aiming becomes more accurate as you level up. To me, that makes most of the functionality we really need. You point at the thing you want to shoot. You shoot. If you're bad at aiming, you might accidentally hit something else. If you're really good at aiming, then you're more likely to hit what you aimed at. Now, if this isn't the case, then maybe some sort of backend tweak to how aiming works would be good. But to me I think part of the immersion of the game is the fact that there isn't an aiming ridicule or a target indicator; You're you, aiming at zombies. To me, at least, I would prefer the game without the aiming indicator as it adds more hud which is always immersion-limiting for me. But if it really is a helpful thing to PvP, then I suppose it may be an eventual inclusion with the new clan / faction update that seems to be on it's way down the pipeline towards release. Edited December 16, 2016 by SaltfuricACid Mr_Sunshine and trombonaught 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkwhip Posted January 3, 2017 Author Share Posted January 3, 2017 On 16/12/2016 at 3:34 PM, SaltfuricACid said: I don't believe the issue is one of difficulty. The devs can do it, yes. However, that takes time. First, in PZ, if there's really a group of players attacking you, you're not going to be "Oh, I'll kill this one, and then this one"... because you'll be dead. That being said, I think that the existing system, as we believe it works, works fine. As I seem to understand it, it targets the closest enemy in the direction you're aiming, and that aiming becomes more accurate as you level up. To me, that makes most of the functionality we really need. You point at the thing you want to shoot. You shoot. If you're bad at aiming, you might accidentally hit something else. If you're really good at aiming, then you're more likely to hit what you aimed at. Now, if this isn't the case, then maybe some sort of backend tweak to how aiming works would be good. But to me I think part of the immersion of the game is the fact that there isn't an aiming ridicule or a target indicator; You're you, aiming at zombies. To me, at least, I would prefer the game without the aiming indicator as it adds more hud which is always immersion-limiting for me. But if it really is a helpful thing to PvP, then I suppose it may be an eventual inclusion with the new clan / faction update that seems to be on it's way down the pipeline towards release. It wasn't the point at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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