Swing State

[Dusty Lens]

I wish my professors were as forgiving as you! That post read like hot garbage. Whoops.

 

But yeah. I dunno. I think my view is probably limited by a lack of pvp chops. I play against the environment with friends (when we play, which likely wont be happening again until this game is released or in a near enough state that the groundwork is laid for modding communities to take over a solid fundamental concept) and in that context guns feel like an afterthought at best.

 

Or something to lure a neighborhood's worth of zeds into a firepit to begin a long day's process of walking in a circle with burning zeds slowly dropping behind us.

 

edit: I am aware that broader contexts within the game remain immature and, in time, guns might find a stronger place within the game. At the moment I can agree that regardless of their intended role I truly hope that the animation changes provide additional contextual cues for the wielder to employ in determining what's going to happen should they pull the trigger.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Dusty Lens
butts

[Blasted_Taco]

2 hours ago, Dusty Lens said:

For what it's worth I will agree that the current aiming system is very annoying. Firearms in general are unrewarding at the moment and, outside of having a grand old time emptying out a bucketload of shotgun shells the only real use I've found for unmodded guns is to serve as a nice portable noise source. Furthermore I'm not entirely certain that if someone were to actually choose to focus on firearms as a skill, lord help them, there would be sufficient ammo on the map to employ higher skill weapon types before their ammo was depleted from the map.

 

Guns hold a very strange place within PZ at the present. I'm not entirely certain if they're meant to have a role, which I feel must be the case based on the number of skills and trinkets associated with them, or if what we have at present is supposed to be a placeholder for a more robust vision that has yet to mature.

 

 

Guns serve the purpose of last resort type of thing, it can help you clear a horde and in PVP, sometimes bringing a butter knife to a gunfight is just not a good idea. (Also i am pretty sure that a NPC wont think twice to shot you if he sees that he dosent have the upperhand, renember that guns will probably will be more used in combat with NPCs)

 

The aim system in my opinion has the right mind set of a RPG, having a role and outside and inside factors (your character state) deciding if you hit or not your target.

 

However the major problem i have with the aim system is that i cant really aim at all, you chose a general direction and you just hoping to kill, this is fine with the shotgun aimed at a horde, however if you want to target a single NPC or player, it becomes a whole new world of pain because you dont know if you are targeting him or not.

 

A little bullseye or just a general indicator telling you where your pointer is and lets you aim at a target would fix a lot of the PVP friendly fire problems.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Blasted_Taco

[Dusty Lens]

I find myself thinking that a good aiming system might be a cone of vision within the cone of vision. A sort of color overlay that gives an idea of the potential spread in which your weapon could be expected to operate given your mental state, skill and factors such as standing still to aim.

 

It would be a good way to really "see" where your shots have a potential to land in addition to lending a nice visible clue regarding how horrific your aim might be if you're truly panicked and swinging your pistol about like a shaky madman.

[Lumbo]

Excellent idea, Dusty Lens! In my opinion you could even just shrink down the vision cone to the appropriate degree without any color overlay. So when aiming with a gun you can only see zeds/players within a narrow horizon. I'm curious whether there will be changes regarding the linking between sneaking and aiming along the combat/animations overhaul. Because you'd need to detach aiming from general sneaking in order to achieve that. My personal suggestion is using right mouse for gun aiming as I haven't ever been using it with the current controls, I only use ctrl.

[Kuren]

5 hours ago, Dusty Lens said:

I find myself thinking that a good aiming system might be a cone of vision within the cone of vision. A sort of color overlay that gives an idea of the potential spread in which your weapon could be expected to operate given your mental state, skill and factors such as standing still to aim.

There's actually a mod for this already and I hate to say it but it really doesn't help.

It does help you realize how aiming currently works but unfortunately it doesn't solve the existing issues, in my opinion.

[Lumbo]

Can you tell me how narrow the recent angles of aiming are approximately? Why doesn't the mod help? Because angles are too wide?

[DresdenBBQ]

22 hours ago, xXSly_WolfyXx said:

We whine about it so that the devs can see that some of us don't enjoy it, How else would they know if we don't let them know?

We whine so much about the aim system they know, trust me.

[Dusty Lens]

7 hours ago, Kuren said:

There's actually a mod for this already and I hate to say it but it really doesn't help.

It does help you realize how aiming currently works but unfortunately it doesn't solve the existing issues, in my opinion.

I am not an intelligent person.

 

Would you be willing to elaborate and clarify?

 

Assume you are speaking to a particularly slow child. Like real slow. Like if you dropped me out of an airplane I wouldn't need a parachute. Because I'm so slow. See it's a joke about how my lack of mental fortitude is so substantial that is actually impacts the physical world.

 

No but really would you be willing to elaborate and clarify?

[Necromatic_Corgi]

12 minutes ago, Dusty Lens said:

I am not an intelligent person.

 

Would you be willing to elaborate and clarify?

 

Assume you are speaking to a particularly slow child. Like real slow. Like if you dropped me out of an airplane I wouldn't need a parachute. Because I'm so slow. See it's a joke about how my lack of mental fortitude is so substantial that is actually impacts the physical world.

 

No but really would you be willing to elaborate and clarify?

How does that need clarification? He literally said that there's a mod but it doesn't fix the core issues.

[Kuren]

5 minutes ago, Dusty Lens said:

I am not an intelligent person.

 

Would you be willing to elaborate and clarify?

To repeat myself, a mod exists for what you described (showing your aim with a cone within your existing cone of vision) and my point was that this only shows you what you already know is happening and doesn't solve the issue of the player not receiving real aiming feedback.

I know the cone exists without seeing it and it doesn't change or fix the issues with aiming when I can.

[Dusty Lens]

14 minutes ago, xXSly_WolfyXx said:

How does that need clarification? He literally said that there's a mod but it doesn't fix the core issues.

Whoa.

11 minutes ago, Kuren said:

To repeat myself, a mod exists for what you described (showing your aim with a cone within your existing cone of vision) and my point was that this only shows you what you already know is happening and doesn't solve the issue of the player not receiving real aiming feedback.

I know the cone exists without seeing it and it doesn't change or fix the issues with aiming when I can.

Well. I mean. You have your own cone of vision but I'm not entirely certain where my own aim falls within that cone of vision. Maybe even outside of it in moments of substantial panic or using a long range weapon without pausing. Given the lack of player feedback it seemed to me that having a real understanding of what range of tiles RNG might have my bullets fall within isn't bad?

 

What feedback are you looking for that you're not receiving if not an area in which your fire is going to fall? A precise marker that identifies the target you have your sights on before RNG takes over? A hit percentage indicator ala xcom? What would be your ideal?

[Kuren]

1 minute ago, Dusty Lens said:

Well. I mean. You have your own cone of vision but I'm not entirely certain where my own aim falls within that cone of vision.

I just described this and told you it exists in the form of a modification twice.
 

18 minutes ago, Kuren said:

a mod exists for what you described (showing your aim with a cone within your existing cone of vision)

I tried, I'm done lol

[EnigmaGrey]

Not a mod, it's just debug mode. In the ProjectZomboid32.bat file, add -Ddebug to the bat file after the xmn and xmx values. Save it and launch the game through that bat file.

[Kuren]

12 minutes ago, EnigmaGrey said:

Not a mod, it's just debug mode. In the ProjectZomboid32.bat file, add -Ddebug to the bat file after the xmn and xmx values. Save it and launch the game through that bat file.

Ah thank you! I was trying to pull it up in the workshop because I was thinking it was a nolan mod when I tried it out and couldn't find it, makes sense why now lol