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'Last Resort' Mondoid Concern: "Copy/Pasting" Saves


FireOnAsphalt

Copying/Pasting Save Files  

22 members have voted

  1. 1. How do you feel about copy/pasting a save file?

    • This is a bad thing.
      11
    • This is a good thing.
      4
    • I'm indifferent.
      7
  2. 2. Should players be allowed to copy/paste a save file?

    • Yes, they should.
      12
    • No, they should not.
      10


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Hello again, it's been a while!

 

I've been keeping tabs on the Mondoid posts and the IWBUMS forum for some time, eager to see what new additions are coming and getting sneak peeks at content being worked on (anims and VOIP!). Largely, I've been happy with recent developments. However in this week's Mondoid, RJ made some comments in regards to save files that I found slightly concerning.

 

Spoiler

... In 35.18 I’m also looking at dealing with people who copy/paste saves, and think I may have a decent solution but I need to make sure there aren’t any sync problems.”

 

I'm looking to get some clarity and open a discussion here about what the pros/cons of copy/pasting saves are. Whether or not there should be any punishments on players who do this or restrictions on the ability to do so.  Are people largely against it, supportive of it or simply indifferent at large?

 

Thanks in advance for your input!

----------------------------------------

 

Now with all that being said, let me present my viewpoint.

 

As a player with a less-than-standard piece of equipment (laptop from 2012),  I have issues at times with overheating and occasional crashing while playing video games. I've taken apart and reassembled this laptop at least four times, and I have the extra screws left over from my mistakes to prove it! Each time was to fix an issue with the heatsink or fan ventilation, one time being for faulty keyboard wiring.

 

When my laptop crashes or overheats while playing Zomboid, there is a chance that my world is corrupted. It seems to happen more often than not. As a preventative measure to save myself from losing weeks worth of work on a character I have fought to keep alive, I will copy and paste my save after every few play sessions to ensure that I have a backup to go to in the event that my save file is corrupted. It gives me much ease of mind to know that I can play without worry of losing progress unfairly due to technical failure and not any fault of my own as a player.

 

I spoke with a friend whom I play this game with about this topic, and we came to many of the same conclusions about copy/pasting a save file. When a player copy/pastes a save, it is probably for one of the following reasons:

 

  • A player wants to cheat and revert death
  • A player wants to make a backup of a world or move it to a new location (HDD transfer, file share, etc)
  • A player wants to share their world with others (which essentially is an extension of the above)

 

While I think it's cheap for a player to cheat and revert death, I think they should be allowed to do that if they want. There is already a creative mode and there are options to turn the player into an information sponge (exp rates) with the stamina and endurance of a Terminator with sandbox customization. There isn't a ranking system, and this game isn't competitive like titles such as DOTA or CS:GO. A player can even download a mod to give their character godlike abilities or change the game in any number of ways. So if a player wants to revert death, well, okay. Personally though, it would sour the experience beyond acceptance.

 

A player who wants to make a backup of a world or move it to a new location should completely be allowed to do this. People make backups of work all the time: writing, coding, images, music, nearly any form of content oo media you can think of. If a player wants to ensure they don't lose their progress due to unforeseen complications, I see no reason why they should be restricted from doing so. 

 

Sharing is what we do on these forums. A player who wants to share their world with others via file transfer is simply sharing their creations and efforts with others. I see no issue with this.

 

Put my drama in a spoiler if you're not interested in reading it. :-o

Spoiler

Now, my question for you RJ is this: What exactly are your plans for this? Is there any way you can elaborate a little more? You did say that you're still working on a solution, and so I would like to see what your viewpoint is on copy/pasting a save. All my drama aside, I must say I'm super happy with Zomboid and have been a player for years! If I come off as aggressive or overly concerned here, know that it only comes from my passion for this game.

 

Edited by FireOnAsphalt
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Like loudboomaker said, the copy/paste thing is mostly for Multiplayer, i dont care if someone backups their save in SP, but i been victim of killing someone in MP or seen someone get bit in MP and suddenly they are back at full health or they duped an item.

 

Those changes that RJ is making are purely MP sided, so dont worry.

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I don't care about duping, sharing worlds, resurrecting a dead character... In SP. Yes, the game's all about dying so backing up a save to avoid permadeath sounds wrong to me (l2p noobs lol) but if it only impacts you in SP, that's OK. 

 

Now, there's no point in sharing a MP world because it's located server-side. So basically, backing up a MP save is most likely implying you're cheating. So... Preventing it is necessary, IMO.

 

I don't know if RJ would share his (untested?) method, knowing that giving details could also give leads on how to bypass it! 

Edited by Teesee
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There seems to be some confusion in regards to this?
This is to prevent people from loading a single player save into multiplayer. If a player somehow effs up his multiplayer save, admins now have means to "restore" a character because they can change traits, experience, etc.

You can copy your single player save file all you want, just not into a multiplayer game (that's the goal).

 

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7 hours ago, nasKo said:

There seems to be some confusion in regards to this?
This is to prevent people from loading a single player save into multiplayer. If a player somehow effs up his multiplayer save, admins now have means to "restore" a character because they can change traits, experience, etc.

You can copy your single player save file all you want, just not into a multiplayer game (that's the goal).

 

There are already protections against SP files being loaded into MP.   None that I know of for MP reloading of old saves though.

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11 hours ago, nasKo said:

There seems to be some confusion in regards to this?
This is to prevent people from loading a single player save into multiplayer. If a player somehow effs up his multiplayer save, admins now have means to "restore" a character because they can change traits, experience, etc.

You can copy your single player save file all you want, just not into a multiplayer game (that's the goal).

 

Yeah, I think my concern was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction, given a night to think about it. I honestly wasn't aware that there is an issue with single player saves being used to dupe multiplayer, so in that context, RJ's comments completely make sense. I'd be pissed if I was playing on a server that players were cheating on.

 

I just love this game too much to see it get hurt I guess... :oops:

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On ‎2016‎-‎10‎-‎05 at 7:01 AM, nasKo said:

There seems to be some confusion in regards to this?
This is to prevent people from loading a single player save into multiplayer. If a player somehow effs up his multiplayer save, admins now have means to "restore" a character because they can change traits, experience, etc.

You can copy your single player save file all you want, just not into a multiplayer game (that's the goal).

 

 

But what if after a lot hardwork and patience you're proud to show your world to a few friends?  Couldn't there be an upload function to allow a single transfer?

 

That may impossible to do while having safeguards against the real problem you describe.  I'll let you be the judge of that.

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5 minutes ago, MyTJ said:

 

But what if after a lot hardwork and patience you're proud to show your world to a few friends?  Couldn't there be an upload function to allow a single transfer?

 

That may impossible to do while having safeguards against the real problem you describe.  I'll let you be the judge of that.

You can do this.  Sending it to a Single Player game.  Granted you would need access to the MP server files.  But this is specifically talking about character files.   Many updates ago you could take a SP file and paste it into the MP file.   Safeguards since then have been placed to disallow this.  But it's the old cat and mouse game.  So it's not as easy to do for your average player.  What still hasn't been fixed is taking old saves from a server and reusing them.    But with the new interface, admins can more easily prove cheating instead of having to follow players around and digging through server logs.

SP do what you want.  Use old saves, use old base or world files whatever.  

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1 hour ago, justcrow said:

Ah, here my question is. Is there a way to figure out who copies and pastes savefiles with server logs in 34.28(current) version?

 

No, but I've added a transactionID for the next version, which basically stop people doing that, also few more options like automatically save when something hits you, etc... It should stop people from abusing this (hopefully!)

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