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Ranged Weapons/throwing knives


TicklemeTommy

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Recently I have taken up knife throwing as a hobby which has led me to thinking about how convenient it would be to throw certain weapons in project zomboid.

 

A new skill could be added: Ranged.

This skill would pertain to the accuracy of thrown weapons and also the accuracy of archery (which I saw in the plans for the future)

 

Certain weapons you would be able to throw, some as a last resort in a desperate attempt to escape some zeds:

Kitchen Knife

Hunting Knife

Butter Knife (doesn't do much damage even with a successful hit)

Screwdriver (requires more accuracy)

Axe (requires more strength)

Spears

Hammer

*Edit* Rocks

 

And a new weapon I will also propose is the hatchet. It is like an axe but is more lightweight able to be thrown. The damage is less than the axe but more than the hammer.

 

Thanks!

Edited by TicklemeTommy
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6 minutes ago, TicklemeTommy said:

Recently I have taken up knife throwing as a hobby

I like the idea of throwing a light spear - at least some use for pool cues. And I like the "ranged" idea for stones and bombs maybe. But throwing a knife at a Z is a strange idea.

The head is small and hard to penetrate (I know that thown knives penetrate well and hard to be pulled from a target wood, but you need to hit a head diectly in the center, otherwise a blade may slip aside), also it is moving towards you, that also makes it difficult to perform a good throw. Also to achieve good results you need a bunch of similar blades (and 1000 successfull throws).

My pretty humble experince with throwing knives tells me: if you have a time to throw a knife well you have a time to settle your problem without throwing your weapon away.

Besides this noone uses throwing knives outside computer games. No. One. There are two exceptions: african monster-machete-axe-flying-abominations and shurikens. First are.. well, for africans. Second are no good against Zs: they dont feel pain, don't fear and don't sufer from poisons, I guess.

 

sorry for a long post, blame cheap Chianti :-D

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6 minutes ago, GOGOblin said:

I like the idea of throwing a light spear - at least some use for pool cues. And I like the "ranged" idea for stones and bombs maybe. But throwing a knife at a Z is a strange idea.

The head is small and hard to penetrate (I know that thown knives penetrate well and hard to be pulled from a target wood, but you need to hit a head diectly in the center, otherwise a blade may slip aside), also it is moving towards you, that also makes it difficult to perform a good throw. Also to achieve good results you need a bunch of similar blades (and 1000 successfull throws).

My pretty humble experince with throwing knives tells me: if you have a time to throw a knife well you have a time to settle your problem without throwing your weapon away.

Besides this noone uses throwing knives outside computer games. No. One. There are two exceptions: african monster-machete-axe-flying-abominations and shurikens. First are.. well, for africans. Second are no good against Zs: they dont feel pain, don't fear and don't sufer from poisons, I guess.

 

sorry for a long post, blame cheap Chianti :-D

True, this wouldn't do that well against zombies, but here are two things to consider;

(1), When your running from blood thirsty cannibals, you get pretty desperate.

(2),  Just because this wouldn't have much effect on zombies, most people would do everything possible to keep something from being stuck in their arm.(or face depending on how good your aim is):-D

Edited by TheWraithPlayer
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1 minute ago, TheWraithPlayer said:

True, this wouldn't do that well against zombies, but here are two things to consider;

(1), When your running from blood thirsty cannibals, you get pretty desperate.

(2),  Just because this wouldn't habve much effect on zombies, most people would do everything possibel to keep somehting from being stuck in their arm.(or face depending on how good your aim is):-D

Oh, I hate throwing knifes so much< I have to answer :-D

1) the last thing you will do when chased by Zs is aiming and throwing. You will rather run as hell or, maybe, will try to kill them. If you have a single slacky walking Z approaching you.. well you may try to throw a knife to impress someone (14 years old) or for fun.. But a single  Z never was a problem, right?

 

2) PvP well.. may be useful if you have a couple of spare knives.. and your victim is weaponless.. And you are 100% you do not just give your enemy a weapon against you. Because hitting a vital spot is a bi skill.

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1 minute ago, GOGOblin said:

Oh, I hate throwing knifes so much< I have to answer :-D

1) the last thing you will do when chased by Zs is aiming and throwing. You will rather run as hell or, maybe, will try to kill them. If you have a single slacky walking Z approaching you.. well you may try to throw a knife to impress someone (14 years old) or for fun.. But a single  Z never was a problem, right?

 

2) PvP well.. may be useful if you have a couple of spare knives.. and your victim is weaponless.. And you are 100% you do not just give your enemy a weapon against you. Because hitting a vital spot is a bi skill.

(1) Haven't you seen the movies were in desperation the hero flings some bladed weapon or empty gun in desperation!?!

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20 hours ago, GOGOblin said:

Ive seen some shit :-D - I've seen TWD. 

Ofc there is a chance to kill a Z with..  with a smile, lol, so beautiful and wild.. lala.. 

Well first of all you underestimate the intimidation someone wielding a knife is. 

Secondly, that is why I proposed the ranged skill, because your accuracy would be a major hindrance against incoming targets

Thirdly, It can be used as a way to SLOW DOWN enemies, not just kill them. When you throw a blade large enough, such as one on a 7 inch blade, it can lacerate a leg muscle, causing a zombie to fall to the ground, unable to use the leg anymore.

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1 minute ago, TicklemeTommy said:

Thirdly, It can be used as a way to SLOW DOWN enemies, not just kill them. When you throw a blade large enough, such as one on a 7 inch blade, it can lacerate a leg muscle, causing a zombie to fall to the ground, unable to use the leg anymore.

This could work fine(with some high level of skill) in PvP.. But Zs..  Z takes bullets like pills, they dives from second floor - like a boss - without damage (for now, I hope they will become crawlers).  

 

Besides this "ninja" skills are kinda out of genre of horror survival :-D

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22 minutes ago, GOGOblin said:

Besides this "ninja" skills are kinda out of genre of horror survival :-D

Why not? Just another way to survive. :lol: 

22 hours ago, TicklemeTommy said:

Recently I have taken up knife throwing as a hobby which has led me to thinking about how convenient it would be to throw certain weapons in project zomboid.

As I know: throwing weapon have special form for accuracy throws. Regular weapon allow to make a fine throw too? It's a good idea btw.

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Here's what I have to say about throwing knives (as someone who's done it for years as a hobby):

 

If you're holding a knife and you throw it, you've just turned a valuable weapon into a rock. Save yourself an amazing, versatile, important survival tool and weapon, and pick up a rock instead. Or, use the knife as it was intended- to stab or cut.

 

Throwing knives is tons of fun, but it has no real application in real life. Measuring revolutions and distance appropriately (and still throwing with enough force to damage) is a skill that takes years to develop with a specific tool. If thrown objects come into the game, throwing a knife should be treated just like throwing a heavy spoon or any other object.

 

It's also worth noting that hatchets and throwing axes and axes are all different things. Hatches are small tools with wide heads. They aren't balanced for throwing and tend to tumble awkwardly.  Axes are large tools with simple properties, that also can't be thrown effectively. Throwing axes have thinner heads and specifically balanced hafts to ensure they can be thrown. Throwing axes can be a variety of sizes, from as small as a hatchet to nearly as large as a normal axe. Throwing axes can actually be an incredibly deadly and potent weapon (and have been used in actual, real combat historically). The problem with them in PZ, though, is two-fold:

 

1) Same point as throwing knives. If you're holding an extremely valuable weapon and you allow it to leave your hands for a chance at a single zombie kill, you are an idiot, you're going to die, and you deserve to die for being bad. If it's just one zombie, just hit it in the head with the axe. If it's not one zombie, congrats you've maybe-killed one, and now have no weapon.

2) Actual, weighted and balanced throwing axes are quite rare. Maybe some sporting goods stores, but in very few homes. The ones I've thrown all had to be ordered in (and they were pretty shoddy quality, too).

 

Spears also share a similar issue with letting go of your weapon, but also have a few redeeming factors:

1) Much easier to make, especially out of every-day objects

2) Much easier to throw/hit with

 

I am a big fan of short-spears as a weapon in general.

 

TL;DR throwing stuff is cool but doesn't exist like you think it does.

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17 minutes ago, xXSly_WolfyXx said:

I'm down for throwing weapons, It would be nice if it was just a fun gameplay thing and it didn't have to be super realistic.

 

And if this were an arpg or arcade action zombie game, that'd be cool, but that really misses the point of what PZ is about...

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1 hour ago, Rathlord said:

 

And if this were an arpg or arcade action zombie game, that'd be cool, but that really misses the point of what PZ is about...

 

IMO I think it should be gameplay > realism, all be it still punishing to the player for not being skilled in it.

 

If they fail at throwing it, they fail at throwing it. You can drink bleach in this game, after all. Let it be the player's choice to make, I'm sure theres a way to tie a "ranged" skill into it as well, like the OP said.

 

Since it's likely a matter of wits (to throw it right without thinking in a fast situation), probably have panic add negative modifiers to the chances of it hitting properly as well (of course, on top of general accuracy). That's probably the best way to implement it, so players won't want to do it unless they are actually good at it. 

Edited by Kim Jong Un
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5 hours ago, Rathlord said:

Throwing knives is tons of fun, but it has no real application in real life.

Sometimes I have to agree with Rathlord.

 

4 hours ago, Rathlord said:

And if this were an arpg or arcade action zombie game, that'd be cool, but that really misses the point of what PZ is about...

Two times.

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throwing a knife or axe at a zombie is a silly idea. i want to throw vinyl records, shoes, saucepans and dead rats at them. 

being able to throw stuff would probably be more useful/fun for moving things around. 

 

if fall damage was set so that you could drop 1 floor to the ground with minimal damage when carrying next to nothing.  you could throw your bag/weapon out the window, then climb/jump down.  (i know fall damage has changed but i haven't tested it out)   

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22 hours ago, Rathlord said:

Here's what I have to say about throwing knives (as someone who's done it for years as a hobby):

 

If you're holding a knife and you throw it, you've just turned a valuable weapon into a rock. Save yourself an amazing, versatile, important survival tool and weapon, and pick up a rock instead. Or, use the knife as it was intended- to stab or cut.

 

Throwing knives is tons of fun, but it has no real application in real life. Measuring revolutions and distance appropriately (and still throwing with enough force to damage) is a skill that takes years to develop with a specific tool. If thrown objects come into the game, throwing a knife should be treated just like throwing a heavy spoon or any other object.

 

It's also worth noting that hatchets and throwing axes and axes are all different things. Hatches are small tools with wide heads. They aren't balanced for throwing and tend to tumble awkwardly.  Axes are large tools with simple properties, that also can't be thrown effectively. Throwing axes have thinner heads and specifically balanced hafts to ensure they can be thrown. Throwing axes can be a variety of sizes, from as small as a hatchet to nearly as large as a normal axe. Throwing axes can actually be an incredibly deadly and potent weapon (and have been used in actual, real combat historically). The problem with them in PZ, though, is two-fold:

 

1) Same point as throwing knives. If you're holding an extremely valuable weapon and you allow it to leave your hands for a chance at a single zombie kill, you are an idiot, you're going to die, and you deserve to die for being bad. If it's just one zombie, just hit it in the head with the axe. If it's not one zombie, congrats you've maybe-killed one, and now have no weapon.

Whoa, whoa, whoa hold on here! yes, against zombies, that's an idiotic idea, but against npcs, as you said, throwing axes have been used in real world historical battles, against people.

19 hours ago, Kim Jong Un said:

 

IMO I think it should be gameplay > realism, all be it still punishing to the player for not being skilled in it.

 

If they fail at throwing it, they fail at throwing it. You can drink bleach in this game, after all. Let it be the player's choice to make, I'm sure theres a way to tie a "ranged" skill into it as well, like the OP said.

 

Since it's likely a matter of wits (to throw it right without thinking in a fast situation), probably have panic add negative modifiers to the chances of it hitting properly as well (of course, on top of general accuracy). That's probably the best way to implement it, so players won't want to do it unless they are actually good at it. 

I agree with you, it's all in player choice. It's the players decision to take on 20+ zoms with a fork, instead of grabbing the fire axe in the closet. At least half of the game is based around what would you do in that scenario.

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1 hour ago, TheWraithPlayer said:

Whoa, whoa, whoa hold on here! yes, against zombies, that's an idiotic idea, but against npcs, as you said, throwing axes have been used in real world historical battles, against people.

 

And I clearly mentioned that. But it suffers from a similar problem- letting go of a weapon for an iffy chance at disabling a single person. There's a good reason throwing axes existed, and that was that they were made for people carrying other dedicated weaponry. In my humble opinion, weapons aren't going to be that expendable in post-zombie Kentucky. Also, as mentioned, modern throwing axes are a pretty uncommon find- in a town the size of Muldraugh, you'd be lucky to find any at all. Throwing a hatchet or any axe that's not weighted for throwing will have disastrous results.

 

My conclusion? Not worth the time to program in. It fails a lot of the criteria (depending on which specific weapon you're looking at) for a good suggestion. It's not reasonably common, for many it's not particularly realistic, and it doesn't have much impact on the game. I'd much rather support throwing blunt objects, as that's going to be a better utilized and more realistic option for the game in almost every possible scenario.

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Same thing as hatchet vs throwing axes, kitchen knife are not especialy well balanced.

 

Got to say that throwing rock (or even using a sling to hurl it at greater speed) is a much more interesting idea as I currently have a lot of unused rocks itching for a use.

 

Plus rocks are renewable no mater if there is loot respawn or not.  I guess wooden spear would be a good idea too... but they are already useful for fishing or burning the branches they are made of.

Edited by MyTJ
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+1

While I doubt there would be balanced/accurate throwing knives laying about, and even if there were, doubt they'd kill zombies.

I do however, believe throwing rocks, spears, hatchets, and etc should be potentially able to kill zombies from a distance. Possibly even set up traps that drop heavy objects on zombies set these up above doors and wam!

 

IMO the drawback should be that throwing weapons are weaker than normal melee, but are just as silent, and without the same risk. Rather carreyweight limits your ammunition stocks. Though TBH I want to have archery in the game already. Stick, string, arrows, etc.

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