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Of doors and crowbars


GOGOblin

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I'm in a suggestion mood, so I have a couople of astonishing ideas.

 

First, A CROWBAR. A very versatile instrument and a decent weapon (if painted red). It is added, but not really popular.

 

Pretty fence in your neighbourhood

Wanna get some planks? Use crowbar!

Rusty nail's menacing your foot

What you gonna use? A crowbar!

There are locked doors in a house to loot?

What will open them? A crowbar!

 

5518cdec720e7.jpg

 

1) Why can't we use it for disassembling furniture? I do not like the idea of disassembling with a saw, it is not actually dis_assembling, its destroying for fuel. I think using hammer+saw OR only a crowbar will be a good way to make crowbars more useful.

2) Use both hammers or crowbars for unbarricading. You may ask why use crowbars when we already have hammers? I think crowbars should be used for looting runs: disassempling, uncanning barricades, opening doors. Its more rogue's instrument. If it is alredy implemented, lets make it useful. Also it can be set to be easier to find.

3) Open doors. Yes, pretty silently, without smashing them to planks and sawdust. This will make a crowbar unique and more useful. Lets now turn to our mangled doors:

 

Second - DOORS. 

1) Add a "loose" option for a door - it has no lock anymore because it was forced with a crowbar or by Z-mob's pressure.

2) Add a wooden log as a door bar or some metal pipe. For those who want to make a removable barricade on a door. Here is the picture for carpenters:

maxresdefault (1).jpg

And a picture for metalworkers:

2010_0704latch0829.jpg

 

So we could sleep in a barricaded room without barricade-unbarricade every time we need to open the door.

Edited by GOGOblin
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Just now, Kim Jong Un said:

I hope it makes noise.

Hey, if I want noise I use an axe! Crowbar must make little noise if any. You see, the big momentum and slow speed of moving of the crowbar once it digs into a door - this means much less sound then bashing.

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I support the zombie bar. that way you can also barricade...

Doors with handles like this

door.png

You should be able to be barricaded by putting a plank in between the door handles and the door if two such doors are present. You should also be able to chain the doors, that way giving you a really cool scene that looks like this

zombie door.png

Padlocks would have a brand  new meaning (I have yet to find a padlock, and haven't found a use on the forum or the wiki)

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7 hours ago, GOGOblin said:

Hey, if I want noise I use an axe! Crowbar must make little noise if any. You see, the big momentum and slow speed of moving of the crowbar once it digs into a door - this means much less sound then bashing.

 

Yah...

 

I've pried open a door before with a crowbar. It's loud enough. It makes significant noise. Especially if you are breaking something in the process. Having it dug in there means nothing for it's common application:

 

 

Edited by Kim Jong Un
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3 hours ago, Kim Jong Un said:

It's loud enough. It makes significant noise. Especially if you are breaking something in the process.

Ofc it makes some noise when you break something, buit compare it to the noise of bashing a door with a sledgehammer or an axe! 

Using an axe you have to make 2-3 (optimistic) good strikes to break the part of the door where the lock is, you simply cant do it silently. Using a crowbar you need to insert it between planks and slowly(means low noise) break planks or metal parts of the lock, there are no necessary strikes - thats what I'm talking about.  This doesn't mean that you'll open the door like those three snowhites in your video, but at least it is a chance.

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Can't we just agree that you're all using crowbars wrong? Crowbars as a burglars tool is a largely fictionalized thing. They're one of the least effective ways at getting into a place quietly or quickly. I could have gotten through that door in the video in seconds (making the same amount of noise) or in a few minutes (making no noise at all). I'm not saying you can't get into places with crowbars (or that it's not used for that sometimes), it's just one of the worst tools for the job if you're doing something other than smashing your way in (in which case, it's rarely more use than a baseball bat).

 

I'm also not sure why you think crowbars are more effective than a saw for disassembling wooden furniture. I'm not sure if you've ever seen a real crowbar (I work in the building materials industry, with contractors every day). Crowbars are used for destruction, not disassembly. Saws would do a much better job of salvaging material. Unless you're maybe thinking of a cat's paw/nail puller (Z3Dtx0fo5oy.JPG which is a very different tool.

 

Actual crowbars are ~3 feet long (1 meter) or longer and weigh 5+ pounds (2.5 kg) or more. There are smaller models, but those aren't found as often and are not what we have in-game. TL;DR they'd be good for fences but neither of your other examples.

 

Also, those metal barrel bolts like in your picture? Those are for privacy, not security. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying. They're only as strong as the handful of tiny screws holding them in (or, more accurately, the wood they're embedded into). Don't count on them protecting you from an angry child, much less the living dead.

 

Citations: I sell building materials for a living. I'm also certified warranty/technician for entry doors like the one in the video.

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6 hours ago, Rathlord said:

Can't we just agree that you're all using crowbars wrong? Crowbars as a burglars tool is a largely fictionalized thing. They're one of the least effective ways at getting into a place quietly or quickly. I could have gotten through that door in the video in seconds (making the same amount of noise) or in a few minutes (making no noise at all). I'm not saying you can't get into places with crowbars (or that it's not used for that sometimes), it's just one of the worst tools for the job if you're doing something other than smashing your way in (in which case, it's rarely more use than a baseball bat).

 

I'm also not sure why you think crowbars are more effective than a saw for disassembling wooden furniture. I'm not sure if you've ever seen a real crowbar (I work in the building materials industry, with contractors every day). Crowbars are used for destruction, not disassembly. Saws would do a much better job of salvaging material. Unless you're maybe thinking of a cat's paw/nail puller (Z3Dtx0fo5oy.JPG which is a very different tool.

 

Actual crowbars are ~3 feet long (1 meter) or longer and weigh 5+ pounds (2.5 kg) or more. There are smaller models, but those aren't found as often and are not what we have in-game. TL;DR they'd be good for fences but neither of your other examples.

 

Also, those metal barrel bolts like in your picture? Those are for privacy, not security. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying. They're only as strong as the handful of tiny screws holding them in (or, more accurately, the wood they're embedded into). Don't count on them protecting you from an angry child, much less the living dead.

 

Citations: I sell building materials for a living. I'm also certified warranty/technician for entry doors like the one in the video.

 

That's true, but  regardless of how much more effective alternatives are, crowbars are commonly used for B&Es. If my anecdotal evidence isn't enough, here's one of quite a few articles with a link to this study that pops up if you search "crowbar break in" and "common tools for break ins". (http://www.ackermansecurity.com/resources/blog/3-simple-tools-burglars-use-to-break-into-your-home http://www.ackermansecurity.com/uploads/client/BurglarSurveyStudyFinalReport.pdf). Not saying you are wrong about it being "one of the worst ways" but it's still a very common way.

 

So it's not "fictionalized" as a prying burglary tool in the sense that it actually is quite regularly used as one. The only other game I can really remember it having the function in is This War Of Mine (which it's inclusion had a lot in common with the video above). Everything else replaced it with generic lock-picking tools, and let's be honest, that's an acquired skill that is even more frequently represented incorrectly. As for a crowbar, it's an easy tool for the desperate, non-certified technician burglars everywhere to use. Common, easy to acquire (at the very least, steal), and they do use it. It's not quiet or quick, but it's effective. Wedge it in,  pry that sucker open after a few tries. I've done it myself (legal circumstances), it's far from unfeasible. Could work with windows too, but I think the game has that functionality already.

 

I'm sure not all of that was directed at me but I quote myself in saying "I hope it makes noise".

Edited by Kim Jong Un
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9 hours ago, Rathlord said:

Crowbars as a burglars tool is a largely fictionalized thing.

Maybe crowbar became a symbolic bulgral tool, but it is still higly effective.

Thats what we have in PZ, exactly this: shitty door, no effort needed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFqTh8NTIqY

 

 

9 hours ago, Rathlord said:

I'm also not sure why you think crowbars are more effective than a saw for disassembling wooden furniture.

 Disassembling, not destroing. We ned those planks, so we tear them one from another so metal things are pulled out, leaving holes, without destroying the whole plank or cutting pieces from it.

 

9 hours ago, Rathlord said:

Also, those metal barrel bolts like in your picture? Those are for privacy, not security. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying.

Enough for mindless Z's. And not this one from picture (I just liked the colours), more massive. Much better than nothing anyway.

 

9 hours ago, Rathlord said:

Unless you're maybe thinking of a cat's paw/nail puller (Z3Dtx0fo5oy.JPG which is a very different tool.

For me a crowbar is:

crowbar-005.jpg

I don't see big difference between this devise and the one on your pic. There are versions with both ends splitted for nails, the difference is mostly size, I guess.

9 hours ago, Rathlord said:

I'm not sure if you've ever seen a real crowbar

Oh share your wisdom what is a REAL crowbar,?

Edited by GOGOblin
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4 hours ago, GOGOblin said:

Oh share your wisdom what is a REAL crowbar,?

 

For one thing, I already directly explained this in my post. For another, it was a serious statement- many people haven't seen one outside of movies and video games. It's not as common a tool as you might expect.

 

And finally, we've already had this discussion about your attitude. Post respectfully or don't post.

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4 minutes ago, GOGOblin said:

 

 

I have no lots of respect for you, why should I conceal it?

 

Because that's the rules. Maybe you should take a moment to go read them again and decide if you want to stay in this community.

 

Now, back to the topic: gonna be late to work, but I'm not saying burglars don't use crowbars from time to time (obviously they do). What I am saying is the extent to which they do, and the effectiveness with which they're used, are largely fiction. More on why after I get back from my other job.

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Just now, Rathlord said:

Because that's the rules

So lets both follow them withot this " I'm not sure if you've ever seen a real crowbar ", ok?

1 minute ago, Rathlord said:

the effectiveness with which they're used, are largely fiction.

Well, so are many things in PZ. But as we like movie chliches about zombies, why shouldn't we like some about crowbars? It is already ingame item - but pretty useless - adding functionality to it wil do no harm. And smashing shitty doors with axes - surrounded by not-so-deaf zombieas is a sheer idiotism, so adding an alternative tool is a good idea, as I see it. I don't mean it must be silent of super-effective, but i would prefer to have a crowbar if I had to open a door.

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Useful actions for the crowbar would be a fine addition, so long as it has the appropriate penalties for its use.  If they're not much quieter than chopping a door, they should at least be faster, since you're really just aiming to break the frame, anyway.

 

Really, we should also have the option to kick down doors or sledge them down, as well. With appropriate risks.

 

Most solid wood furniture in the US is screwed together, so the game's requirement of a screw driver makes more sense. The saw, not so much. But then, disassembly should really just have increasing returns for having tools in your inventory, rather than be locked behind them.

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