RELEASED: Build 35.26

[TextError]

My composter don't show either!! I build 3..and i know they are there ...cant pass ....and i can see the boxes on the tab(next to my inventar)i even put rotten food there..i will upload a image later today when i go home

 

And knife dont lose from his quality(you can use that infinite) when you bucher birds/rabits...you even gain xp and you can raise quiete fast blade maintenance....and i just sustain my caracter and raise his weight from 65 to 80 only eating birds...i think will be beter if you can make like foreign? Eating 10 to 15 birds a day ?they dont disappear?and fish/rats have less fat iirc vs birds.....and you can fish in winter if that is correct...iwbums version 6ml(sp)

 

[steiger]

The nutrition bit is annoying -- when I realized how much weight I'd lost the first 2 months by only eating when I get peckish, and only enough to make the moodle go away, I started to pay attention to this.

 

Decided to WAY over-plant for what I thought I should need, and then when things came to harvest, basically ate non-stop until I couldn't eat anymore.  It took a month or so of keeping myself well-fed all the time to lose my "underweight" trait -- this is strictly using farm produce without fatty pre-cataclysm food stuffs, and the occasional batch of fish or small animal meat for variety.  Having to make gains on what you can raise cuts WAY down on rotten food waste, to say the least.

[TextError]

Yeah..veggi have like 0.samething fat and a birdhave 3.25 and easy to cach too...have lots of worms ...:)...so if you plant tomato you can use that as bait for birds or to cach rabbits(rabbits they are ballance cuz you can cach like 3 max a day from 10 traps..they eat and go too or use cabage...they harvest in 10 day +2 for seeds(and will be great if you can collect half of seeds req to plant them again?harvesting and plant + extra seeds its op(way go to town?))having 10 traps is so easy ...checking them 2/3 times a day...and cook them second day or so..soory for wall of text...bored at work :)

 

[CaptKaspar]

We can't build big wire fences. I made a post about it here in general chat:

 

RJ, should I place this in bug tracker, or are we doing something wrong?

 

Also any progress on the antique stove not being able to be used bug? These are the two things that I am hoping most to see patched in 35.20

[Chris0135]

4 hours ago, steiger said:

 

The nutrition bit is annoying -- when I realized how much weight I'd lost the first 2 months by only eating when I get peckish, and only enough to make the moodle go away, I started to pay attention to this.

 

 

I wish the hunger value (like the -15 on chips) was correlational to the calories provided. It doesn't make sense that a bag of chips only gives you -15 hunger while supplying 720 calories, but a stir fry with all sorts of meat only provides 300 calories (-60 hunger)

[CaptKaspar]

11 minutes ago, Chris0135 said:

I wish the hunger value (like the -15 on chips) was correlational to the calories provided. It doesn't make sense that a bag of chips only gives you -15 hunger while supplying 720 calories, but a stir fry with all sorts of meat only provides 300 calories (-60 hunger)

 

While this idea isn't realistic, it would make things simpler!

 

Unfortunately, the sensation of hunger has little to do with calories. IRL you can drink water with 0 calories and decrease your sensation of hunger. 

 

Whats more important? Satiating your hunger or ensuring your characters get the required calories? Ideally,  hunger would be an indication that you need calories. After all biologically that's the purpose of the sensation of hunger right?

 

But, in reality we know there are high calorie foods that don't make you feel full, and foods that make you feel full that aren't full of calories. 

 

Maybe moodles that tell us cravings when we're deficient in one area of nutrition or another? 'Man, I could really go for something sweet' , 'What I would do for a good steak?' or 'I'm really craving some carbs, who's got some bread or pasta?'

 

Perhaps realism should take a backseat to gameplay on this one? Then again I'm pretty sure you can just turn off the nutritional aspect of the game in server settings or sandbox

[Chris0135]

3 minutes ago, CaptKaspar said:

Maybe moodles that tell us cravings when we're deficient in one area of nutrition or another? 'Man, I could really go for something sweet' , 'What I would do for a good steak?' or 'I'm really craving some carbs, who's got some bread or pasta?'

Oo yeah, i REALLY like this idea. That would be awesome. 

 

Because right now in my world my friends and I are trying to survive on what we think is enough food (meat and veggie stir fries) but we are losing massive weight. If we had some moodle tell us what we are missing that would be awesome.

[Kuren]

I personally like that hunger and calories are different "bars" because it not only reflects reality but it adds to the gameplay in my opinion. I do however think that it needs to be tweaked now that the nutrition system is in, as it was built before it and based off of very short days (30 minutes at the time, I believe). The nutrition system wants you to eat like you would over a full day in real life but you wont get hungry as many times as you would in real life with the current hunger balancing, that to me is the issue. While you can overcome this by simply eating more often than your character tells you they need to, it's confusing for new players that don't understand this, making them lose weight while they think they're doing fine.
 

Edited October 18, 2016 by Kuren

[Chris0135]

12 minutes ago, Kuren said:

I personally like that hunger and calories are different "bars" because it not only reflects reality but it adds to the gameplay in my opinion. I do however think that it needs to be tweaked now that the nutrition system is in, as it was built before it and based of of very short days (30 minutes at the time, I believe). The nutrition system wants you to eat like you would over a full day in real life but you wont get hungry as many times as you would in real life with the current hunger balancing, that to me is the issue. While you can overcome this by simply eating more often than your character tells you they need to but it's confusing for new players that don't understand this, making them lose weight while they think they're doing fine.

Okay yeah this makes sense. I guess whats wrong is not the calories, but the hunger moodle is misleading. 

[Chris0135]

1 hour ago, CaptKaspar said:

 

While this idea isn't realistic, it would make things simpler!

 

Unfortunately, the sensation of hunger has little to do with calories. IRL you can drink water with 0 calories and decrease your sensation of hunger. 

 

Whats more important? Satiating your hunger or ensuring your characters get the required calories? Ideally,  hunger would be an indication that you need calories. After all biologically that's the purpose of the sensation of hunger right?

 

But, in reality we know there are high calorie foods that don't make you feel full, and foods that make you feel full that aren't full of calories. 

 

Maybe moodles that tell us cravings when we're deficient in one area of nutrition or another? 'Man, I could really go for something sweet' , 'What I would do for a good steak?' or 'I'm really craving some carbs, who's got some bread or pasta?'

 

Perhaps realism should take a backseat to gameplay on this one? Then again I'm pretty sure you can just turn off the nutritional aspect of the game in server settings or sandbox

And one more idea had had about this was that in your case the hunger moodle is your "sensation" of hunger, in that case shouldent your nutrition value give you extra strength and faster healing while the "sensation" gives you happiness and less boredom or something? I dont think it really makes sense for when you "think" you are full that you should have more strength and more importantly, more healing.

[steiger]

4 minutes ago, Chris0135 said:

Okay yeah this makes sense. I guess whats wrong is not the calories, but the hunger moodle is misleading. 

I guess I disagree with this in favor of how it works now, even though I find it annoying?

 

I'm convinced that you could be eating such that you aren't hungry much throughout the day, but still aren't taking in enough calories to maintain weight.  I've done it IRL, having lost like 20 pounds in a few months by consuming mostly protein and fat and very few carbs.

I think this is especially true when your food options are limited and your daily activities include running away from zombies, assembling structures, carrying heavy loads, and swinging a hammer and/or axe as much as you probably do in the game.

[Kuren]

1 minute ago, Chris0135 said:

And one more idea had had about this was that in your case the hunger moodle is your "sensation" of hunger, in that case shouldent your nutrition value give you extra strength and faster healing while the "sensation" gives you happiness and less boredom or something? I dont think it really makes sense for when you "think" you are full that you should have more strength and more importantly, more healing.

I never thought of this but it's a great point Would love to see a change in this direction now that we have hunger and nutrition working together

I always wished they would add buffs to gaining strength and whatnot based on if you're eating enough of certain things in your diet. Like if you want to get strong you better be meeting the protein requirements for your body weight to gain strength/mass, if you want to have some energy during the day you should eat enough carbs or if you eat too many fatty/sugary foods you'll of course get fat more easily, stuff like that.

I could still see having a full belly be good for healing and energy though, maybe if one of the food values counted as something you're character would "burn" through, so eating something would help heal you but only until it was "digested" in a sense, untying it from the hunger system.

Ultimately I feel like the issue being discussed here (of hunger not happening often enough) could be solved by simply changing how often a player gets hungry in a day but these are some interesting ideas I like too

[Chris0135]

If i change the stats decrease to very high, will that only affect the moodles and not nutrition? Because that might be an easy fix for now.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Chris0135

[Maxi605]

On 16/10/2016 at 4:00 PM, RobertJohnson said:

Yeah, it's my bad, I had a talk with EG about it, now I get it.

 

So for next version, what I'll do will prob be (don't hesitate to tell me if it's bad):

- Host loggin as non admin

- Host and only him will have access to an admin panel (in the main menu screen, while in game just press escape)

- From this panel he can get his admin superpower, allowing him to do wht the heck he wants

- When he's done admining, he can remove the super power again

 

That way, you're not always an admin (because I changed some code in it, like admin can't get hits by zed or pvp etc...) but you can administrate your server (even tho i find it quite cheaty, specially with the player stats UI now, but meh.)

 

Sounds good to you guys?

 

Edit:

If it sounds cool, I'll try to release a version tomorrow with a few fixes in MP stuff, I know I said i'll work again on SP, but had to do some MP stuff... (and specially now i get lot of ppl playing easy coop and can't use my new admin tools, and i really needs feedback on them, to be sure it's ain't broken!)

and fix the composter please? thanks

[RobertJohnson]

About nutrition:

 

I've done tons of calcul and research to make it pretty close to the reality, and to me, it is.

But, I realised something, confirmed by my brother in law: he is basically someone who do only sport all day, he live for sport, if he does less than 7h sport per day, he feels bad, and jeeze i swear, he eats really a lot! He told me, to lose 2 kilos before a judo competition, he simply reduce a bit what he eats for 1 week and here we go.

 

And I think that's what's happening in PZ, even if I think all the calcul are correct, very few people are realising how much sport you're doing in a normal PZ day, running almost 24/7, sweating, jumping over fences, fear of zombies, chopping wood, crafting stuff... You're rarely just chilling, normal, it's a video game.

So yes, with this type of day, having what you think a normal meal isn't enough (stir fry? there's no oil/butter in it, only vegetables? it's kinda a low calories meal!), it's more like what my brother in law does when he wants to lose some weight.

 

So yeah, to me, it is correct, but because no one is really prepared to eat that much 'cause you're burning so much calories, I need to lower the calories lost, though, not to the point you need to eat like you spend a day in front of a computer (ask my waifu, i can eat only 1 thing per day and i won't lose weight :D)

 

I'll work on it, thing being, lot of people are complaining because they're losing some weight, and that's intended, i don't want this changed, i just want to see if you're able to maintain an average weight after a few weeks of survival.

 

Now, remember, calories ~= hunger reduction ~= hunger moodle (sensation of feeling full), eat a bag of chips, you'll feel a bit full for 15min, got tons of calories, but still gonna be hungry after a bit, eat a salad full of concumber and carrots, you'll feel full for longer, but got really small amount of calories.

 

About having buff with nutrition, it's already in, having a good amount of protein boost your strength xp faster, etc...

[Lumbo]

That leads me to an idea for maybe some future updates (I know you're busy with all kinds of stuff right now, so don't bother): to have a calorie burn variable depending on many other things like workout, stress, etc. That way you'd try not to run as often, rather save those calories and walk, just a little thought

About the state of nutrition at the moment: Yeah, I think it's plausible to burn lots and lots of calories during apoclypse, haven't gotten to care about nutrition yet in game though.

[Kuren]

46 minutes ago, RobertJohnson said:

About nutrition:

 

I've done tons of calcul and research to make it pretty close to the reality, and to me, it is.

But, I realised something, confirmed by my brother in law: he is basically someone who do only sport all day, he live for sport, if he does less than 7h sport per day, he feels bad, and jeeze i swear, he eats really a lot! He told me, to lose 2 kilos before a judo competition, he simply reduce a bit what he eats for 1 week and here we go.

 

And I think that's what's happening in PZ, even if I think all the calcul are correct, very few people are realising how much sport you're doing in a normal PZ day, running almost 24/7, sweating, jumping over fences, fear of zombies, chopping wood, crafting stuff... You're rarely just chilling, normal, it's a video game.

So yes, with this type of day, having what you think a normal meal isn't enough (stir fry? there's no oil/butter in it, only vegetables? it's kinda a low calories meal!), it's more like what my brother in law does when he wants to lose some weight.

I completely agree The nutrition system is great and you've done an amazing job on it When you're going to the gym or doing a lot of any physical activity like running, sports or hard labor, you need to eat a lot to keep up, especially if you want to gain or maintain weight (be it with muscle or fat).
 

 

46 minutes ago, RobertJohnson said:

About having buff with nutrition, it's already in, having a good amount of protein boost your strength xp faster, etc...

And this is great to hear Thank you Never saw this in the change notes so I just assumed it hadn't happened lol


But yeah, I think the nutrition system is great personally It just might help some people having trouble if their characters got hungry slightly more often. So I would say try tweaking the hunger system first, especially if you feel that the nutrition system is accurate (like I do as well).

Anyway, thanks for being so great and communicating/listening to the community all the time You're always adding so much to the game and I'm sure I speak for many when I say I appreciate it
 

Edited October 19, 2016 by Kuren

[Rickyroughneck]

I get what you are saying RobertJohnson about calories vs hunger, but the problem is that in the game they are too disconnected. Calories should correlate with hunger by at least 50%, but at the moment it feels that they are completely disconnected. I think this could be solved by adjusting the calorific quantities for many items. 720 (said earlier in the thread) is far too much for a packet of chips (as is -15 hunger reduction... I am usually hungrier after eating chips than before!). On the other some vegetables might be too low such as potatoes or carrots - both are tubers whose purpose is to store a bunch of energy.

 

I am not sure if it is done already or too difficult, but exercise should be reflected in both hunger and expended calories.

 

Also, in a related way - hunger and/ or the quantity that you can eat should reduce when nauseous

[RobertJohnson]

Exercice, almost every timed actions will burn more calories, depending on the action, some other nutrition elements also reduce more or less calories burned per activities

[Lumbo]

One thing that could cause confusion with the nutrition calculations is that the weight of food items is a representative for weight+volume. Personally I think it's kind of unbalanced that nutrition gets superdetailed values and calculations whereas weight and volume are a rough guess. Hope I didn't sound too critical, I just sometimes wish weight and volume were separated or carrying capacity/ main inventory nerfed a lot. But that's just me...

edit: nevertheless the weight systems is fine as it is and works for me

esit2: and I have no idea how accurate the nutrition system is, I'm giving it a try right now.

14 minutes ago, RobertJohnson said:

Exercice, almost every timed actions will burn more calories, depending on the action, some other nutrition elements also reduce more or less calories burned per activities

That's great!

Edited October 19, 2016 by Lumbo

[NagashUD]

5 hours ago, RobertJohnson said:

Now, remember, calories ~= hunger reduction ~= hunger moodle (sensation of feeling full), eat a bag of chips, you'll feel a bit full for 15min, got tons of calories, but still gonna be hungry after a bit, eat a salad full of concumber and carrots, you'll feel full for longer, but got really small amount of calories.

 

About having buff with nutrition, it's already in, having a good amount of protein boost your strength xp faster, etc...

I don't get it, isn't this already in game ? or will we have a new update for it? i'm lost :/

Edited October 19, 2016 by NagashUD

[Unghin]

On 17.10.2016 at 8:12 PM, RobertJohnson said:

Can you screenshot this UI problem?

Unable to change size of window (fullscreen screenshot)

On 17.10.2016 at 8:12 PM, RobertJohnson said:

And what you mean by horde map?

I meant map from admin panel that show zombie population around, was released somewhere in this topic.

[RobertJohnson]

Yeah, tbh resizing all those new admin UI could be a pita to do... You can move it around the screen tho, it's still a problem? :/

 

For map horde, erm, gonna see if I can find that post, but could be really tough as only a small portion of the map is loaded around you (zombies included)

[Blasted_Taco]

5 hours ago, RobertJohnson said:

Exercice, almost every timed actions will burn more calories, depending on the action, some other nutrition elements also reduce more or less calories burned per activities

 

So maybe the way to fix this is not tweaking the cal and weight system, but instead, give this information to the player, give him an idea of how the system works, maybe add some tips of how to eat? 

 

I would like the idea of a Health & Care channel in the TV, but i doubt that most new players will change to that channel and think "huh i should follow those tips", but you need to give players an idea of how the system works instead of giving in.

[Chris0135]

56 minutes ago, Blasted_Taco said:

maybe the way to fix this is not tweaking the cal and weight system, but instead, give this information to the player, give him an idea of how the system works, maybe add some tips of how to eat? 

Yeah i think this is fair