Option to have Zed numbers increase until peak day with respawn off.

[Joshnpk]

As the title says could we please have a sandbox option so that you can start with low zombie numbers and have them increase up until the peak population day without having to have respawn on? I don't know how complicated this would be to implement but at it's most crudest could we not just have an option in sandbox to have respawn on until peak population day? so basically respawn is on up until the game reaches what ever day the player has set as the peak population day.

[MyTJ]

The idea of having respawn shut down on peak day seem simple enough.

 

Meanwhile, you could experiment with sandbox settings to do one or more of the following :

• Set respawn rate very low (like 0.1 or whatever input is the lowest possible) ;
• Increase respawn time drasticaly.

While not perfect, this would give you roughly the same result.  But there is one drawback : I'm not sure if you could reach the proper population on peak day this way.  You may want to work around that by decreasing initial population factor, increasing population multiplier and peak day number.

 

Let me know how that work out for you (I'm always curious about experiment with sandbox settings).

[Guest]

UR A... Damn it I'm not typing this out I will just copy/paste, so it won't be all caps   UR A Option to have Zed numbers increase until peak day with respawn off.

 

 

 

I feel like I gotta say I'm jokin'  | Yeah it's a good idea I have no clue how long it would take to be added in, it's still cool no matter what.  

[Scyoni]

I'd like this too, actually. Respawn itself gets on my nerves because it doesn't make sense sometimes (at least not without NPCs yet) but having a kind of curve from some zombies -> LOTS OF ZOMBIES before it shuts down would be more realistic than it is now.

 

I mean right now you have two options: 

1- You start smack in the middle of the apocalypse. Everyone has turned. Here's 90,000 zombies. Enjoy.

2- You start at the beginning of the apocalypse. Here's a few zombies. There will always be more. I don't care that Muldragh had a population of X, there are X³⁹ zombies there. and more are on their way.

 

You can argue about 'migration' all you want, it still doesn't make sense that the population of the world twice over can spawn in some tiny town in the middle of nowhere.

[GOGOblin]

57 minutes ago, Scyoni said:

it still doesn't make sense

Oh you..

 

I hope new 3d animations will lead to new fighting system which in its turn will make Zs more dangerous and thus their amount will be decreased.

[Scyoni]

Well, a good part of the threat of zombies is that there are so many of them. They're a restless, unrelenting force, which in moderate numbers can overwhelm the best of men if they aren't properly equipped and paying attention. 

 

I think the issue I have with the current populations is that having so much of an ambient population makes hordes a bit less terrifying. I mean yes - a horde of 100+ zombies will be scary no matter what - but if you're used to only finding one here and there, in unsearched buildings and small groups very rarely the streets when they've migrated there from elsewhere, suddenly running into unholy shambling masses would give you a heart attack.  If you run into a small group of like 3-10 on every street, it's less "holy mother of god" and more "oh. Look. More of them."  You just get desensitized. They're a chore to hack away - not much more than that.

 

Might just be my impression.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Scyoni

[GOGOblin]

28 minutes ago, Scyoni said:

 If you run into a small group of like 3-10 on every street, it's less "holy mother of god" and more "oh. Look. More of them."  You just get desensitized.

That is what happened to the game, something went wrong a year ago. I will post this picture once more:

the Z's are just ANNOYING and not scary at all. 

 

The game turned too much to TWD style, I think - the most boring zombie setting.

[EnigmaGrey]

Gogoblin, if you want rare / very strong zombies, make the settings happen in sandbox.

 

There's no point reliving your Reddit conversations from months ago here.

Edited July 27, 2016 by EnigmaGrey

[GOGOblin]

Enigma, shall I post the picture about your opinion?

 

Please don't tell me what to do and what not to do.. And I am not going to argue about sandbox, I've said it all before and btw I am not the only freak here, who doesnt like your "sandbox approach".

 

( I understand, that breaking in others' dialogues is ok for this forum, but I still can't get used to it)

[nasKo]

45 minutes ago, GOGOblin said:

That is what happened to the game, something went wrong a year ago. I will post this picture once more:

the Z's are just ANNOYING and not scary at all. 

 

The game turned too much to TWD style, I think - the most boring zombie setting.

 

What would be the change you'd turn it around with?

[GOGOblin]

10 minutes ago, nasKo said:

 you'd turn it around with?

Couldn't translate this, sorry.  What do you mean?

[nasKo]

57 minutes ago, GOGOblin said:

Couldn't translate this, sorry.  What do you mean?

What is the change you're proposing

[GOGOblin]

20 minutes ago, nasKo said:

What is the change you're proposing

"Reduce the default amount of Z's"

Killing 30 Zs per day is too much, even for TWD style (punching through a scull with a screwdriver and so on, like killing a human is an easy task).

And this is not only my opinion, as may be seen ITT and in /r/, some people agree with me.

I do not mean difficulty of the game, I think Z's should be more dangerous: no 3 Zs down after one swing of a rolling pin, no "by default" instakill with a knife and so on. 

[MyTJ]

On ‎2016‎-‎07‎-‎27 at 8:38 AM, GOGOblin said:

(...)

Killing 30 Zs per day is too much, even for TWD style (punching through a scull with a screwdriver and so on, like killing a human is an easy task).

(...)

 

At the risk of opening my eponymous box...

 

Although I don't endorse the act itself, killing a human is incredibly easy when he/she is unaware of danger.

 

Massive shoot-out asside, there are numerous death each years that actually happen by accident.  I remember a case a while back of a young kid killing another with a single punch to the head (although in that specific instance the victim had a weakness, conclusion was involontary homicid by application of the "thin skull theory").

 

Look-up at legal information center where you live for a lot of case where there was actual evidence of a killing being done by accident.

 

Are zombies aware of danger : no, they are driven by only one thing = to eat juicy brains (or whatever, depending on the lore you use).

 

Are zombies possibly weak : maybe, decay may do it's part.

[GOGOblin]

On 29.07.2016 at 9:19 PM, MyTJ said:

killing a human is incredibly easy

Nope. It depends on luck, ask 50cents : ) and all those who had arrows in their brain or a limb cut off by a train.

 

It maybe easy to kill by wounding and then later the victim dies.. in an hour. In most games enemies have to be fed 4-5 bulets - to represent the fact that killing instantly and wounding deadly are different things. 

 

On 29.07.2016 at 9:19 PM, MyTJ said:

legal information center

Have you read something like "the victim was stabbed 45 times" ? It IS not an easy task to kill someone until you are lucky or really know how. Besides Zs' dont give a  fart until you really dispatch them.

On 29.07.2016 at 9:19 PM, MyTJ said:

maybe, decay may do it's part.

TWD is full of scenes of something percing a zombie's scull as a pile of shit. Actually bones do not decay that fast, but who cares, its a movie. In PZ we have a nice palate piercing strike (its so amasing, that a have dedicated a poem to it, lol), so the degree of decay is not that significant.. Anyway I do not think that even TWD characters kill 30 Z's on daily basis.

[MyTJ]

49 minutes ago, GOGOblin said:

(...)

Have you read something like "the victim was stabbed 45 times" ? It IS not an easy task to kill someone until you are lucky or really know how. Besides Zs' dont give a  fart until you really dispatch them.

(...)

This is due to a couple of things :

 

1) Blood from knife wounds take some time to flow out by capilarity unless you hit an artery, contrary to what we can see in movies.  People expecting to see blood as a sign of damage will tend to overdo it by a considerable margin.

 

2) Most crimes involving such 45 stabs are also crimes of passion.  There is a compulsory element to the number of stabs.  Again, they do a lot more then what's necessary.

 

3) Those stabs are usually to the abdomen, in some instance in the torso.  You won't read 45 cuts to the jugular because one is enough to seriously wound.  Not sure if I've seen any stab cause spinal cord injury.

 

From the above you'll see that I understand the difference between wounding and killing.  I agree that in a way luck (or bad luck for the exemple of a single punch kill) has something to do with it too.

 

But I still maintain that it's incredibly easy to kill unaware victims, and that by definition, zombies are unaware of danger. I also beleive that the game is relatively well balanced as it is.

 

[GOGOblin]

17 hours ago, MyTJ said:

and that by definition, zombies are unaware of danger

No, most times they spot you. They don't care about defense, but they also attack you. So you need to make one good strike but at the same time you must not allow them to scratch you. If you manage to sneak close to a Z and have time and enough force to place a good strike - thats should be an instakill, but otherwise you need to move, defend yourself, aim and strike at the same time. And if you panic or do not know how to kill a Z in a proper TWD manner - you'll probably spend a lot of time and energy in vain making a lot of useless strikes. 

Edited July 31, 2016 by GOGOblin

[EnigmaGrey]

Got to agree with TJ. Zombies just attack to kill -- they're not doing it because of an awareness of danger. They'll walk through barbed wire, bear traps, and off ledges to get to their next meal.

[MyTJ]

1 hour ago, GOGOblin said:

No, most times they spot you. They don't care about defense, but they also attack you. So you need to make one good strike but at the same time you must not allow them to scratch you. If you manage to sneak close to a Z and have time and enough force to place a good strike - thats should be an instakill, but otherwise you need to move, defend yourself, aim and strike at the same time. And if you panic or do not know how to kill a Z in a proper TWD manner - you'll probably spend a lot of time and energy in vain making a lot of useless strikes. 

 

Exactly what happen when you stab without waiting for the proper moment.  I once though knives where useless (break too fast, low damage and no knockback), untill I learned their true (in-game) use.

 

I'll agree that they are aware of you so to speak as I think you've agreed they have no self preservation instinct (wich was what I was really saying by being unaware).

 

But hey, we're getting sidetracked here with OP idea : Start with a few zombies, have them increase over time then stop regenerating their number on or around peak day.

 

I'll add to the argument on this it may be a good thing to have actually two respawn set in sandbox.  One between initial date and peak day, the other after peak day.  This may be a simple way to deal with this issue and have the added bonus of allowing some respawn for those that like the idea of having a few zombies wandering from time to time from neighboring towns/cities.

Edited July 31, 2016 by MyTJ

[GOGOblin]

15 hours ago, MyTJ said:

I'll agree that they are aware of you so to speak as I think you've agreed they have no self preservation instinct (wich was what I was really saying by being unaware).

Yes, agreed, they do not try do defense themeselves, but this is not equal to just standig and waiting for a good axe swing.

Actually fighting skill - against humans - and fighting skill against Z's are very different skills. Everything is upside down: you need protect yourself from any little scratch while your enemy has no fear and ignores damage enough to knockout or even kill a living person.

 

 

15 hours ago, MyTJ said:

Start with a few zombies, have them increase over time then stop regenerating their number on or around peak day.

Does it mean migration from neighbouring cities? It would be nice to have a model of Zs' migration, not plain random.

[EnigmaGrey]

If the effect is the same as simple randomization and the only issue selling it to players then why spent time trying to "realisticl" migrate the continental US through the affected area of the game? There's a good 5-10 million people within one or two hundred miles.

Edited August 1, 2016 by EnigmaGrey

[Scyoni]

I miss the days when they only spawned in at the edge of the map.

[GOGOblin]

21 minutes ago, EnigmaGrey said:

There's a good 5-10 million people within one or two hundred miles.

Thats why some model is needed.  Million of "people" spread uniformly and million marching down the Dixie Highway are very different millions.

[EnigmaGrey]

4 hours ago, GOGOblin said:

Thats why some model is needed.  Million of "people" spread uniformly and million marching down the Dixie Highway are very different millions.

You do really the current system isn't uniform, right? Zombies when migrating already prefer roads and avoid trees to some extent.

 

4 hours ago, Scyoni said:

I miss the days when they only spawned in at the edge of the map.

 

When was that? For most of the Steam build's life, migration and respawning didn't exist.

 

Prior to the steam build, the population of zombies was fixed on game startup and the map was so small that individual zombies were able to flock around the map.

 

The system we now have checks if a zombie could exist in the area its spawning from the edge of the map. This is meant only to happen after enough time has passed to be equivalent to a zombie walking from the edge of that map, to that area. This is done because it's not actually possible to model individual zombies due to the limitations of computers -- the same reason we can't really model huge migrations of people over the US. Some suspension of disbelief will be necessary -- perhaps more so if you actually want to know these systems operate.

 

My main contention with the current system is actually that it's too consistent, however.

Edited August 1, 2016 by EnigmaGrey

[GOGOblin]

9 minutes ago, EnigmaGrey said:

Zombies when migrating already prefer roads and avoid trees to some extent.

Yep, I sow those respawn maps, roads were highlighted.

Maybe the reason of displeasure is the fact that Zs' do not really migrate in the game? They roam aimlessly or react on some sound but there is no flow of them on the highway. They just hang around some houses in a packs of 5-10.  There is no migrating groups or something, they just stay in one place, waiting for a player.

BTW sometimes very comic: they stand in tight groups and after the player arrives they all step back a little, like they were discussing some evil plan against the player and after being spotted pretend they "din du nofin"