An open discussion on alternative forms of fortification.

[TheRedStranger]

 Okay so far we have carpentry as the major skill that defines how well we can barriade and build defensive structures, but what else can be done?

 

 One idea me and Nagol had was weilding, a heavy armour version of carpentry. It's generally less portable, harder to gather the necessary resources for, and has some safety hazards (especially if one is not wearing the right gear or skilled in the craft), however it's constructs are non-flammable, can conduct electricty for added defence, can brace exsisting structures, and is generally more permenant and sturdy than it's "lighter" alternative.  It could be used in construction (building sturdy metalic structures), crafting (making metal-based upgrades and objects), scavenging (breaking down metallic objects), and even infiltration (getting through mettalic objects like steel doors, locks, gun-safes, ect.).  

 

  The required objects, pro's, cons, and mechanics are up for debate - be free to add your thoughts, especially if you know anything about the craft.

 

 The opposite: a quick fix would be more elaborate forms of furniture moving, perhaps even some novice booby traps, like turning a chair over  the front  thus tripping up some of the zombies, or moving a dresser on the edge of the stairs then pushing it down once the zombies flood the stairwell.

 

 Any other thoughts about alternate methods and skills for fortification? And what do you thing about adding welding in general? Any ideas?

[The_One_And_Only]

 Okay so far we have carpentry as the major skill that defines how well we can barriade and build defensive structures, but what else can be done?

 

 One idea me and Nagol had was weilding, a heavy armour version of carpentry. It's generally less portable, harder to gather the necessary resources for, and has some safety hazards (especially if one is not wearing the right gear or skilled in the craft), however it's constructs are non-flammable, can conduct electricty for added defence, can brace exsisting structures, and is generally more permenant and sturdy than it's "lighter" alternative.  It could be used in construction (building sturdy metalic structures), crafting (making metal-based upgrades and objects), scavenging (breaking down metallic objects), and even infiltration (getting through mettalic objects like steel doors, locks, gun-safes, ect.).  

 

  The required objects, pro's, cons, and mechanics are up for debate - be free to add your thoughts, especially if you know anything about the craft.

 

 The opposite: a quick fix would be more elaborate forms of furniture moving, perhaps even some novice booby traps, like turning a chair over  the front  thus tripping up some of the zombies, or moving a dresser on the edge of the stairs then pushing it down once the zombies flood the stairwell.

 

 Any other thoughts about alternate methods and skills for fortification? And what do you thing about adding welding in general? Any ideas?

How about digging a moat that zombies fall in, and can't get out?

[EnigmaGrey]

Digging.

So much digging.

[Kajin]

Electrical work? Could use it to make an electrified barbed wire fence.

[TheRedStranger]

Digging.

So much digging.

 

Pitfalls - good for trapping.

Pungee Pits - good for impailing the unwelcomed or hunting.

Trenches - good for fighting humans in ranged combat.

Moats - excellent deterant and slows down the dead, can be electrified. 

Earthen ramparts - above ground cover, slows down hostiles, can be used to achieve higher ground and buffet other fortifications. Can be used to block ingresses to certain areas.

Proper Grave - for baking cakes...what do you thing a grave is for?   A proper send off that can lessen the blow for you and your fellows when you lose a pal.

Mass Grave - used for getting rid of the reaking bulk of badly bashed bodies from your recent necrocidal exploits. Don't chuck a loved one or NPC's friend in their...it will have negative psychological reprucussions.

Simple pits - a hole in the ground, great for storage of items, prisoners, or Incan children (yeah, Incans really did that). Don't forget pit fights! All you need is a spade and a dream, and you can have your very own redneck Thunderdome!

Burning pits - what happens when you rub hot sauce under your armpits . Not. Add flamables to that pit of yours and you can have a great way to get rid of the dead in mass! Don't chuck passed loved ones or NPC's pals in there...unless your a cold loner psychopath that is a glutton for punishment.

 

 

Pros? Cons?

[TheRedStranger]

Electrical work? Could use it to make an electrified barbed wire fence.

 

And perks with generators and getting electrical based objects working at full capacity.

[Rathlord]

I made a thread about traps, so some of this could play into that thread as well.

 

As far as barricading, we know that furniture will be movable at some point in the future.

 

I'm kinda iffy on the welding. It's something not many people know how to do, which is one point against it. It also requires a lot of tools and consumable resources (like oxygen and acetylene tanks) which is another negative in some ways. I think it could add considerably to gameplay variation, though, and in that way I like it.

 

I would prefer to see the welding primarily be for making small objects and fortifying rather than actually crafting. You can't exactly build a solid wall or a door with welding (easily, at least). I'd much prefer to see things like:

 

• Barred windows
• Barred Doors
• Dead bolt locks
• Basic Tools
• Breaking down other metal objects
• Metal Fencing
• Spikes/various traps
• Basic shields

As I see it, to weld you'd need the torch/apparatus and a container of fuel. These could be found in industrial buildings and warehouses. They're very heavy and it's best to have them set up somewhere rather than try to carry them. Fuel would be used as you make things. They act as a container, so craft things by putting them in. The basic resource would be "metal scraps." These could be used to craft all manner of metal items or to upgrade existing items. Another added item would be a welder's mask. If you craft multiple items without one, your perception is reduced for 24 hours. Craft a whole bunch of items without one and go blind.

[Kajin]

Welding something fast and ugly like a barricade is easy. Doing it safely, on the other hand... Not so much. It's easy to catch yourself or something else on fire if you're not VERY careful.

 

And as far as basic barricades go, I think there should be a modification on how current door barricades are handled. If you barricade a door, it should be as a big wooden bar that slides into place from the inside so you can come and go as you want.

[Rathlord]

Thanks kinda what I was picturing for a door barricade, too.

[Scyoni]

 a quick fix would be more elaborate forms of furniture moving, perhaps even some novice booby traps, like turning a chair over  the front  thus tripping up some of the zombies, or moving a dresser on the edge of the stairs then pushing it down once the zombies flood the stairwell.

 

If this were ever implemented as a particular skill it would have to be called "Feng Shui."

 

I can't imagine a more spiritually beneficial way to arrange household furniture than the way that maims and murders the reanimated dead.

[feral_donkey]

I think an easy upgrade would be the above mentioned welder gear + metal scraps to turn a wooden door or wall into a metal reinforced structure. Then full metal scrap doors and walls would be another construction line.    Four or five times the zed stopping power of wood maybe.   But not impervious. Brick or concrete block masonry would be another heavy duty solution.  As impervious as the in game pre-built version but requiring enormous time and resources to construct.

 

So wood ---> scrap metal ---> masonry.  

 

Doesnt sound difficult beyond generating the tile sets.   But that might be too much effort to justify the return.

[Kajin]

If this were ever implemented as a particular skill it would have to be called "Feng Shui."

 

I can't imagine a more spiritually beneficial way to arrange household furniture than the way that maims and murders the reanimated dead.

For some reason, Feng Shui actually sounds like a good idea to me. If only as a way to influence a "Room Decoration" moodle to increase character happiness.

[Rathlord]

For some reason, Feng Shui actually sounds like a good idea to me. If only as a way to influence a "Room Decoration" moodle to increase character happiness.

 

And if you get good enough at building walls and collecting survivor friends, you wall off all of Muldraugh and start you own community, and before you know it, you're actually playing The Sims =P

[Kajin]

Hey, I don't know about you but if I were surviving the apocalypse I'd go out and hole myself up in the biggest, swankiest mansion I can find. There's more to life then just simple survival. You gotta learn to appreciate the finer things once in a while.

[Rathlord]

Hey, I don't know about you but if I were surviving the apocalypse I'd go out and hole myself up in the biggest, swankiest mansion I can find. There's more to life then just simple survival. You gotta learn to appreciate the finer things once in a while.

 

Indeed.

[Scyoni]

Hey, I don't know about you but if I were surviving the apocalypse I'd go out and hole myself up in the biggest, swankiest mansion I can find. There's more to life then just simple survival. You gotta learn to appreciate the finer things once in a while.

*Bggest, swankiest, defensible mansion.

 

Granted a lot of them have gated walls and such. Could always do the 'destroy the stairs' thing. 

[Rathlord]

Find one of those castles in Europe that's been converted to a giant manor for some rich dude... That's where I'd hole up, anyways. Most of the old castles have wells in them (or rivers running through them) plus have room for minor farming and cattle.

[Scyoni]

For some reason, Feng Shui actually sounds like a good idea to me. If only as a way to influence a "Room Decoration" moodle to increase character happiness.

There are like a thousand better ways to do that. xD 

 

Decorative junk items -> Snowglobes, fake flowers / plants,

Higher quality furniture

Unbroken doors / windows

Big screen TV ;P Usable or no

Real curtains instead of sheets

No items on the floor

No corpses / bloodstains on the floor

 

All give you the positive moodle to varying degrees.  

 

Sparse / bad quality handicraft furniture

broken doors / windows

Sheets or barricaded windows

junk on the floor

corpses and such

burned tiles

 

All subtract from the moodle to varying degrees. 

 

Basically if it looks like the apocalypse has happened, it's not good for your mental state. It'd require that a way to 'cleanup' zombies and spatters be implemented, but otherwise it's not too tricky. 

[Rathlord]

I'm not sure room decoration deserves its own moodle. I think the general idea is to be pretttty stingy with moodles, as they take up screen space and break immersion to an extent. They're meant only as a stopgap for things that the player can't see. A 'mental state' moodle that could be effected by a mess? Maybe. But not one specifically for it. But mental state is a discussion for another thread XD

[Scyoni]

Yah I doubt it'd be a thing. xD I just like thinking up ways things -could- work if they were to be a thing. Arranging furniture for a deco moodle would be more complicated than my way but I doubt either will happen at all, and I'm not sure I'd want them to.

 

... Except maybe with the whole "corpses lying around" thing. I think you should get a penalty for staring at that mess and need to fix it if it's in your base. Corpses are unnerving.

[Kajin]

Seriously, though. I think living in pleasant surroundings should confer some sort of bonus to the character. Whether it's in an old but well kept farm house overlooking a field or a three story manor in the suburbs with expensive furniture and diamond plated electrical outlets. A person that doesn't take time to enjoy their surroundings and relax a bit every now and then is little more than a feral animal.

 

If you manage to get yourself a halfway decent safehouse that is easily defensible, then these sorts of things start to become important as the character manages to reclaim some semblance of civilization in their lives. There needs to be a point where a character's mindset becomes less "craven survivor" and more "normal person". Of course, that will be the EXACT point in time when shit hits the fan and things start falling apart around you 

 

Think of it as a continuing cycle of upheaval.

[Rathlord]

Cleaning up corpses has been confirmed by Lemmy- they will pose health issues.

[Rathlord]

Personally I'd just like to see returning to places over and over again make them calming. It doesn't matter how bad a place you live in- if it's your 'home,' then it calms you. That way returning to a location you've slept in multiple times before could help keep your character less panicked and more sane.

[Scyoni]

The issue in this scenario is how you determine what location is what. Is it a room, or a whole house? How many can be familiar? Do NPCs influence this when they barge in and ruin things? 

[Rathlord]

As I recall the map system already kind of groups a house into a 'unit' so I would say the entire house. You get one "home" and it's the house in which you've slept most often at any given time. This way if you've stayed in it two days (and it's only the third day) it's easy to leave behind, but if you've stayed in it 4 years... you miss it for a looooong time.

 

I'd say no, NPC's don't influence it. Even if it burned down, it would be your home until somewhere else replaced it in your heart.