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allu

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On 4/27/2016 at 3:47 PM, allu said:

I just read about this in the latest IWBUMS update and had to come to hear what others think about it. I personally don't think it's a feature the zomboid would really need right now, especially if it's long and hard job. I first played zomboid like in 2013 and there were promises of NPCs already back then, which so far has not been filled.

 

Your OP insinuated that you were disappointed that other features were being worked on when NPCs still aren't done. Your second post (especially before the edit) was just rude, condescending and unneeded (in my opinion).

 

And they've already stated the reasons they don't want to add half complete NPCs to the game and they have the right to make that decision.

 

People not understanding the development process and who works on what is why we're in this mess to begin with. As those same people will come and accuse other features of being the reason they don't have NPCs when in fact they're being worked on by completely different people. You're posts have simply added to this load and I think this response is directed towards more than just you.

Simply put, please try to realize where the devs are coming from before posting possibly hurtful/aggressive things. Let's all try to be lovely and understanding if we can :)

Edited by Kuren
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47 minutes ago, allu said:

 

 

Is this really so hard to code? Seeing as you are getting frustrated towards your own community, I would suggest doing a change of tactic and start to integrate the NPC system slowly by baby-steps instead of trying to showcase us a full npc system with companions and bartering.

 

No, that wouldn't be hard to code. And if you had enough respect for the people you were addressing, you would have read his DIRECT RESPONSE TO THIS EXACT IDEA. You're more than welcome to post your opinions here, but I'd recommend not being so rude as to ignore the dev who took time out of his day to address you. When you fail to actually read what he wrote, you're wasting his time and all of ours.

 

Edit: In fact, survivors like that were already in the game at one point, but were removed to be reworked. What you're suggesting would be actually going backwards.

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31 minutes ago, Rathlord said:

 

No, that wouldn't be hard to code. And if you had enough respect for the people you were addressing, you would have read his DIRECT RESPONSE TO THIS EXACT IDEA. You're more than welcome to post your opinions here, but I'd recommend not being so rude as to ignore the dev who took time out of his day to address you. When you fail to actually read what he wrote, you're wasting his time and all of ours.

 

Edit: In fact, survivors like that were already in the game at one point, but were removed to be reworked. What you're suggesting would be actually going backwards.

I did. And I did read it all again. I still managed to miss the DIRECT RESPONSE TO THIS EXACT IDEA.
Just after 2 post I have never felt more un-welcome by any community, just because my first post contained a single word.
It wasn't even the main point of the post. I just added it as an example, apparently should have used vehicles since the word NPC causes more aggression here than the word immigration in real world.

How is that going backwards?
That is like a getting your car manufacturer taking the stereo away and saying that it will get replaced with upgraded bluetooth, but years pass and you still get nothing.
 

36 minutes ago, Kuren said:

 

Your OP insinuated that you were disappointed that other features were being worked on when NPCs still aren't done. Your second post (especially before the edit) was just rude, condescending and unneeded (in my opinion).

 

And they've already stated the reasons they don't want to add half complete NPCs to the game and they have the right to make that decision.

 

People not understanding the development process and who works on what is why we're in this mess to begin with. As those same people will come and accuse other features of being the reason they don't have NPCs when in fact they're being worked on by completely different people. You're posts have simply added to this load and I think this response is directed towards more than just you.

Simply put, please try to realize where the devs are coming from before posting possibly hurtful/aggressive things. Let's all try to be lovely and understanding if we can :)

Only rude and condescending post in this thread came from your beloved dev. If he is so sick of all the NPC talk, he could just make a sticky about his feelings concerning the subject instead of laying it on a new-comer in the community. I mean no rudeness towards anyone and I'm not here to argue, thats why I did edit out some the personal opinions his essay gave me.

Edited by allu
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HeyI

 

As I said in the post I'm going to finish it :P that's not in question.

 

The point is at a game studio, doing a day job for money, some crunch aside, people don't work 12-16 hour days, they work 7.5, 9 till 5 until the end of a project when the crunch begins. You'd also likely have a team of 3-4 in a studio doing AI as extensive as this.  Say 3 people, that's a 21 man hour day.

 

So what happens when one of them gets stuck, has a problem they can't get by? They walk over to the desk of their team mates and say 'hey can you give me a hand'. You go to the technical director of the studio and say you're having a problem with something, and you have meetings with 8 programmers and discuss how to get by the problem. You contact the publisher and see if they have a solution to the problem. Or more likely, you don't have that problem in the first place because you've got the AI from the first 4 games the studio made to draw from, or you have the behaviour system from the AAA engine you've licensed.

 

When you're a small indie company, working remotely from home, with only one person to do all this, the difference between 'doing it for fun' for 12-16 hours a day,  which is about 2 people worth of 9-5ing, the moment that becomes something, as I say, you have to 'tie yourself to your desk' to do instead of doing it because you enjoy or are interested in it, you CANNOT maintain those kinds of work hours when it's work, or you'll make yourself ill. Imagine working 14 hour days at something you hate, 7 days a week. Every waking moment. No that's not acceptable and I'd be concerned at anyone who thought it was.

 

My point is by turning NPCs into a horrible job one doesn't want to do, you're effectively instantly killing off one entire developer on the NPCs, one that knew everything the other developer did.

 

Now on top of that, you have a problem, you're stuck on something, a complete roadblock you can't figure your way past. Do you walk over to the other AI programmer? They don't exist. The technical director above you? Doesn't exist. Do I ask my collegues? They have never done any of the AI on the game, and beyond general suggestions are unlikely to know the way around a roadblock the person with all the NPC and AI experience is stuck on? So what then? Search the internet?

 

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=behaviour%20trees

 

Oh. Seems the #1 search result is an article by... me. I'm in uncharted territory a lot of the time.

 

Nope, there's only one solution. Put it to one side, stop driving yourself crazy, and work on something else that you CAN progress with. Also something you'll be working as two people on, because you're into it and can work as two people due to having 'day job' you and 'after work hobby' you both working on the same thing. This is how I work, I hit a roadblock, and stew and try and rev my car over it for a while, until it becomes clear its not going anywhere. I can't see the wood for the trees, so I put it to one side and work on something for the game that IS being productive and come back later, where suddenly I have a fresh perspective, and within a bit more struggling will almost always find some new route past the roadblock. Then progress whirs along again.

 

This has been the way I've worked throughout the entire of my indie career, and it works and is the way it has to work for a lot of the time.

 

This is nothing to do with the fact that 'oh its not fun and I want my job to be fun' and feeling entitled to that, I'm not stacking boxes in a warehouse or putting labels on boxes on a conveyor belt. My job requires a great deal of mental discipline, creativity, and many other factors that control how capable I am of navigating through extremely complicated roadblocks, to make creative leaps of imagination to come up with solutions to problems that I have no colleagues or superiors to bail me out, or to collaborate with, that if I google to get an answer, often the answers I need aren't there on the internet. There's no one to turn to, and at the same time I'm having this onslaught on my motivation, mental well being, confidence and stress levels by having to read daily complaints and often insults, second guesses, suspicions, accusations. I can't avoid this, I NEED to read the communities feedback on the game, read problems people are having with the game and so on. Yes of course the NPCs are part of this, but I'm just being honest about how grueling the constant NPC complaining is, and the fact that it's literally hurting development of them severely. This isn't me throwing my toys out the pram and saying 'blergh I don't like that people are being mean so I'm cutting how much I work on them', or feeling entitled because its my own company and I'm not doing a day job, and therefore feel I can get away with doing less if I'm not enjoying it. I put 10x the effort into this company and game, part my own, than I ever did working for some big AAA corporation that didn't give a crap about me.

 

The difference is at a big AAA company, if I hit a roadblock I would have more routes around it that wouldn't necessitate some breathing room and a break from it. Also there'd be a PR guy, several marketing guys, countless other people whose responsibility it would be to read all the stressful and endless complaints that company may be receiving. It's kept away from the developers, its of no direct consequence to them, and they are not weighed down by them in the same way as an Early Access game on Steam where the people running the company and managing the community feedback, and reading the mondoid comments, are the same people sat there in front of a code IDE expected to solve problems and motivate themselves to write hugely complicated NPC systems single handedly.

 

I apologize again that you happened to get the full unload of all this stuff, it's just an unfortunate combination of wrong place, wrong time, and some frustrating comments in your OP but I'll admit you didn't deserve that level. That all aside, this all needed to be said, and you're right, we've put NPC information up in lights on the Steam board and that should be the same here and am a bit confused why this isn't the case, I'll look into it as I'm certain we've had one in the near past, FAQs and all sorts. 

 

Regarding your last quoting myself back at me, I fail to see the relevance. I know that many people want different things from the game, and that's why we're developing lots of different things for the game. I can't control the resources we have and what roadblocks we hit, or what particular team members have what particular specialities and what combination of the things that need doing happen to be suited to what developers. We get complaints for working on 'cosmetic stuff' instead of NPCs by people who seemingly don't understand that someone who does art has absolutely no way of helping in the development of AI behaviours. I've been in the industry including indie for 15-16 years, and I know who needs to be doing what, but we're not ARK we don't have several teams all working on this, there's just a few of us strewn around the planet. Even so we specifically enlisted the help of a third party company to do all the VOIP so that it would not effect any of the current game development whatsoever, but there is literally nothing I can do to get NPCs out faster than they are apart from putting myself in an early grave first, and as much as I'd find that non-preferable that's also a good way to ensure NPCs never come out.

 

 

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"Mean no rudeness" meanwhile calling people rude and condescending repeatedly- that doesn't quite fly. I'm sorry you don't feel welcome, but if you were to wander into someone's office in real life, start telling people how to do their jobs, and then call them names- you probably wouldn't feel very welcome there, either. You're more than welcome here, but we do require members of our community to treat each other with respect, whether it's your first post or your thousandth.

 

 

Edit: Here you go, I went and found the relevant bit for you:

 

 

Quote

6) There is huge expectation to live up to so it would be suicide to put them in in progressive stages of completeness like we do other features. There'd be nothing in theory stopping us putting some npcs in in a more basic state and moving code and features over as its refined, building on what's there, but it would be 'THIS IS IT AFTER ALL THIS TIME?!?!' apocalypse soonafter. Therefore they have to deliver pretty much everything we promised in the first version. As a mental exercise, imagine we had to do the same with the map: people would be still saying 'when are we getting more than this 300x300 tile alpha map?! Why the delays?!' and Muldraugh and Westpoint would be nowhere to be seen since we'd have to get Louisville and other areas in before you saw

any of it.

 

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PZ! Now with 1000% more Wall o' Text!

 

Lemmy, my dear lemmy. Please do not pander so eagerly to us mere mortals, or we may begin to take you for granted.

 

You need a day off. Infact, you need all the days off.

 

Don't worry, I've called the Contractor, the Forced Labor camp should be done by next week. He assured me that forum goers indeed have no rights and we can classify the prison as a mandatory Summer Camp.

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To be honest allu has a point, as I said I stand by the frustration of the assumptions made about demand for VOIP and whatnot, but I think especially since we didn't have any sticky visible to make it clear to newcomers, it would be good for us all to remember quite how spikey the community and me in particular must appear from allu's perspective without being aware of both a) how lovely we all generally are and b) quite how apt immigration comparison is and how much a raw nerve it is for many, most of all myself. It's something that's dragged the community around by the hair for years now, not a single day passes where it doesn't get shoved in your face at some point, and everyone's tired about it. It was just unfortunately the exact combination of things in the OP to throw a match on the fuse. 

 

That aside I fully understand why allu would respond defensively to the initial responses here, and not particularly judge us well as a friendly community or devs because of it. I'd just ask you look a little deeper into the history on this subject before judging me too harshly based on it as I suspect you have no idea quite how deep it runs or how persistently miserable it's been, or how much in general what I said needed to be said, even if you ended up acting as proxy to hundreds of people many of whom have been obviously more rude than yourself. I've had a tough time lately and hope after looking around a bit more you'll realize this isn't the norm (perhaps once every year when the toll starts to build and it all swells to bursting point). I tried to apologize in my initial post bit it may have seemed inadequate in comparison to the wall of text.

 

I'd also ask that people sticking up for me or TIS please don't start pushing back on allu's responses since I can get how he/she would be prickly in return. It's just not been pleasant first impressions all around.

 

ne way, I hope we can put this behind us. I'm really glad I said what I said, but I regret it being in this thread and being blasted in allu's face upon entry to our community. It began an immediate response to allu but turned into a response to every NPC comment in the past month by the end, and that's not really fair.

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I understand all of that, but op wasn't just scared or feeling unwelcomed, he used a couple of dirty moves that are not well seen by people who know how to argue. I mean no offence, but a couple of those answers are straight insults and a couple are clearly him ignoring facts pointed at him. I hope this goes somewhere though

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7 minutes ago, Livio Persemprio said:

I understand all of that, but op wasn't just scared or feeling unwelcomed, he used a couple of dirty moves that are not well seen by people who know how to argue. I mean no offence, but a couple of those answers are straight insults and a couple are clearly him ignoring facts pointed at him. I hope this goes somewhere though

 

As I said in response to the jack ass who was saying 'lol wish I had lemmy101's job so I could do nothing all day', I can understand people who get heated out of frustration, say things they don't mean or overreact, as I've been guilty of it myself (and well I guess this is evidence of it), and a bit of pushback expected when you post on a new forum and have more or less completely negative responses to it that lacking context seem way out of proportion to the post. I'm sure I wouldn't like it. Not saying any direct insults are acceptable, but given the circumstances I think a little understanding is warranted at the same time.

 

I think more could be accomplished in trying to understand each other's points of view and forgetting all the heated emotions, as its hard for either side to see the others perspective otherwise, cooler heads will prevail.

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50 minutes ago, Rathlord said:

"Mean no rudeness" meanwhile calling people rude and condescending repeatedly- that doesn't quite fly. I'm sorry you don't feel welcome, but if you were to wander into someone's office in real life, start telling people how to do their jobs, and then call them names- you probably wouldn't feel very welcome there, either. You're more than welcome here, but we do require members of our community to treat each other with respect, whether it's your first post or your thousandth.

 

 

Edit: Here you go, I went and found the relevant bit for you:

Just to set the record straight, I didn't walk in to anyone's office declaring you are doing it wrong, I made a topic on a public forum where i expressed my fear about ending up with a bad in-game chat. See the difference? The only mistake I did was the NPC word.
But thanks on the excact info, I honestly don't know how I missed that...

Plus now I just have to ask this... when on earth have I been rude or condescending towards others repeatedly, especially since I have only 3 posts and 1st and 3rd were 100% clean from anything that can be taken offensively?

Since this is quite touchy subject, I'm gonna drop it, right after I boldly suggest one more time that maybe the community would be happy with just basic NPCs, that might blast you with a shotgun or not.

 

22 minutes ago, lemmy101 said:

I hope we can put this behind us. I'm really glad I said what I said, but I regret it being in this thread and being blasted in allu's face upon entry to our community.


No worries man, you apologized already in your earlier post and now I feel like an idiot for taking it personally.

Edited by allu
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Well, that requires a lot of effort, but I agree, I think I can relate to those emotions you pointed out...

Now I feel confused, in a good way, I think....

 

On the other hand, I was thinking that summarizing some of your answers here in a pinned thread would help a lot of newcomers avoid this kind of situation, maybe (?)

I just think that getting something productive out of this would be good

Edited by Livio Persemprio
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Quote

Since this is quite touchy subject, I'm gonna drop it, right after I boldly suggest one more time that maybe the community would be happy with just basic NPCs, that might blast you with a shotgun or not.

 

stick around for a month (we're not like this all the time ;)) and you'll before long understand fully why such a thing would never work unfortunately. I'd love to be able to release a simpler NPC system to expand on along with the community, and the community itself you're exactly right, it would be great. But it's not the community that's the issue, its those outside of it, that still participate in the internet, are perhaps disgruntled by the delay and went off and forgot about the game, or wait on the fringes for news to reach them of the game. Sadly there's so much expectation at this point, even a mention of NPCs in the mondoid fanning the flames and brings these people back with supreme anger and prejudice. There are so many who've gone away and plan to come back when they hear NPCs are in, and the actual promises and goals for the NPCs so lofty, having simple versions in there, even stating in a blog post 'THIS ISN'T ALL WE'VE DONE' would have twenty responses saying 'THIS IS ALL YOU'VE DONE?!' it would just.... seriously it wouldn't go down well and we'd probably be looking at hundreds of negative reviews and miserable forums for weeks.

 

We once made a joke in a mondoid in response to the Mojang sale to Microsoft,  that we'd sold our company to Sony for $2bil and were flying around in golden helicopters, and for months after were getting accused by some of being sell outs or congratulated on it was remarkable. The community are wonderful, but a lot of those outside the immediate community who just keep tabs on the game. who don't pay close attention, it's impossible to convey the situation to many or even most of them, to remotely set or temper their expectations in advance. As soon as NPCs go in in any form, even in a beta branch, those NPCs will be judged as 'the npcs we've been waiting for for YEARS', they won't ever be able to be made to understand that 90% of the code may be on another branch, and us moving finished bits into testing. The assumption will be 'that's what's been done in the YEARS we've been waiting' and there will be blood in the streets. Everyone whose been here long enough knows it in their bones and in their blood. It's just very difficult to get a message out there to people who often just see an update in steam, run the game, and pass their judgements without ever reading a word. We obviously know that everyone in the community, everyone who keeps full track of development, will know and understand. They aren't the ones making the constant complaints and queries about NPC progress though.

 

This is where the frustration comes from, because people here have no sooner explained, or disarmed, or in worse cases banned, the last person, when the next person comes with almost the exact same post. Like you put the fire out and immediately notice the curtains catch on fire, and you're running around putting out flames all day, despite it only being a tiny fraction of people in comparison to the number of players of the game, it just feels it never ends and nothing you can say can 'get the word out' there and get everyone on the same page. This is more an issue on the steam forums than here, which is probably why the npc info isn't as prominent as it should be, though I'm still convinced its here somewhere I think it may have lost visibility in the forum upgrade recently.  not that that makes any substantial difference to the posts it just gives you something to point at when they don't read it and post anyway :P,

 

The community has gone through a lot in the past, with a burglary and various other things that have given us somewhat of a spidey sense about exactly what kind of response we'll get from any action from the wider fringe of the community.

 

You'll understand in time, and probably start wincing at every NPC mention yourself one day. ;)

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10 minutes ago, Livio Persemprio said:

Well, that requires a lot of effort, but I agree, I think I can relate to those emotions you pointed out...

Now I feel confused, in a good way, I think....

 

On the other hand, I was thinking that summarizing some of your answers here in a pinned thread would help a lot of newcomers avoid this kind of situation, maybe (?)

I just think that getting something productive out of this would be good

 

Yeah i'd like to extract as much from this thread as possible to get it out there, as I say its important to say, its been building up on my shoulders for a long while, it's just not really the place for it to be.

 

That all said it's got some honesty in it I'd worry about the aforementioned 'outside community' people seeing it. The admission that there are times I may not work on NPCs, or that I've worked on non NPC things, makes my blood run cold at the thought of some reading it :P

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32 minutes ago, lemmy101 said:

As soon as NPCs go in in any form, even in a beta branch, those NPCs will be judged as 'the npcs we've been waiting for for YEARS', they won't ever be able to be made to understand that 90% of the code may be on another branch, and us moving finished bits into testing. The assumption will be 'that's what's been done in the YEARS we've been waiting' and there will be blood in the streets. Everyone whose been here long enough knows it in their bones and in their blood.

 

This made me laugh so hard because is true, i am sure that as soon as the NPCs hit the IWBUMS, even if it just the Kate & Bob scenario, the whole Steam and TIS forum will be set on fire from trolls just flaming and the community defending the game i am sure that maybe Rock Paper Shotgun or PCGamer could give a spotlight of this event and all the people will come expecting the second coming of Jesus Christ in NPC form.

 

Is going to be a day to remember 

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19 hours ago, lemmy101 said:

 

Most has been explained in the wall of text, but the reasons are primarily:

 

1) Small team where there isn't enough resources to have more than one person doing NPCs due to the rest of the team being needed to do other things to keep the game moving along during dev for everyone getting updates. Expanding team with AAA AI experts would soon diminish the 'pot of gold' and make the company less stable, potentially leading to no NPCS EVER, so slow and steady wins over 'fast but if anything goes wrong run out of money'. Them being slow and delayed is ironically due to responsibility to make sure they are finished at all. Even if there were many AAA AI experts out there who were java experts too, considering all of AAA uses C++ not java. In short it's a very very difficult role to advertise for.  

2) The dev doing them needing to do other things intermittently to cover things only that dev can do due to prior experience or proximity to animator IRL or as stated before because there aren't enough resources to cover everything.

3) The dev needing to do businessy things as MD of a company like taxes and other boring stuff.

4) the dev needing breaks due to incessant NPC complaints destroying all sense of fun and excitement of them, and making NPCs associated with lots of negative stuff, that results in NPCs being very much a 'day job' unlike other features being made at fast speeds due to being done in spare time as a 'hobby' as well as for work, often in 12-14 hours stretches, all nighters and over weekends. 'Willing perpetual crunch, for fun' when dev is enjoying it. NPCs are very much 9-5 maximum, and are no longer welcome of my free time for own personal health and mental well being.

5) We were over zealous in our initial ambitions and goals being a more naive company in the earlier days. Got a bit carried away imagining the future of PZ. We're also true to our word and therefore have commited to delivering those lofty goals. They are extremely complicated and difficult, requiring a lot of research, learning and experience building, rethinks, reorganizations, and at least one do over.  This massive requirement of research and experience adds to the difficulty of getting more developers from the team in on the work requiring a long 'ramp up' time until anyone else could be productive on it, even if we could spare anyone.

6) There is huge expectation to live up to so it would be suicide to put them in in progressive stages of completeness like we do other features. There'd be nothing in theory stopping us putting some npcs in in a more basic state and moving code and features over as its refined, building on what's there, but it would be 'THIS IS IT AFTER ALL THIS TIME?!?!' apocalypse soonafter. Therefore they have to deliver pretty much everything we promised in the first version. As a mental exercise, imagine we had to do the same with the map: people would be still saying 'when are we getting more than this 300x300 tile alpha map?! Why the delays?!' and Muldraugh and Westpoint would be nowhere to be seen since we'd have to get Louisville and other areas in before you saw any of it.

7) It became obvious that trying to develop them alongside animations was a fools errand, so much needs changing for movement / combat, they need to come out after, and be developed after, animation overhaul.

8) Dev is human and has a life that may occasionally be complicated and interfere with ability to work either practically or mentally. Nice example: Dev is getting married this year. There are less nice examples too.

 

That all said dev will get NPCs out eventually and 5 years of steadfast commitment to the game should show that dev is serious about that.

 

Thanks for explaining and thanks for using your time to do this. :)

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19 hours ago, King Kitteh said:

If you would sir. Please step into this small room containing a computer and bucket.

Pay no attention to me locking the door behind you, all is well.

 

 

On topic, I must admit that I am somewhat melancholic about this game's choice to further distance itself from i's original inspiration. Typing of the Dead. A true masterpiece.

*Looks at your response and thinks*:

"And somebody liked this."

Come on, did i really say it in such a bad way?

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24 minutes ago, ChristFive said:

*Looks at your response and thinks*:

"And somebody liked this."

Come on, did i really say it in such a bad way?

 

What can I say? I'm a lickable likeable guy.

 

The joke was that I was being extremely ruthless and intolerant to the issue. What you said wasn't badly worded.

 

That said, you're above regulation brain activity for a slav- happy camper! Yes camper. Please take this inject of liquid loveliness. :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)

 

 

Edit: Also you didn't seem to bother reading Lemmy's wall of text which explained the issue. (Although I admit to giving up after the first few)

Edited by King Kitteh
Loveliness Regulations
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28 minutes ago, King Kitteh said:

 

What can I say? I'm a lickable likeable guy.

 

The joke was that I was being extremely ruthless and intolerant to the issue. What you said wasn't badly worded.

 

That said, you're above regulation brain activity for a slav- happy camper! Yes camper. Please take this inject of liquid loveliness. :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)

 

 

Edit: Also you didn't seem to bother reading Lemmy's wall of text which explained the issue. (Although I admit to giving up after the first few)

Ok, when you talked about that room before, i understood it was a joke but now it just sounded like if you wanted to say "sir, did you even f****ng read the post before yours?".

So thanks for explaining that, (and) (i think) i've readen all his posts on the first page but not the second page. I don't really know.

 

I know you wanted to call me slave but no way, i'm not going on a supply run for you, i need to get supplies for myself.

Edited by ChristFive
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6 minutes ago, TheDreaded1 said:

Soooo...that a solid 'No' on NPC eta, oooorrrr...

 

(Does this make me a bad person?)

Yes you are :P

Jokes aside, it has been stated so many times that you shouldn't even be asking if you looked around this thread or any other related to dragons.

 

It's also OK for devs not to give ETAs since developing isn't something that goes as planned, we don't even get etas for animations and creative mode as well, that's just how it works, and believe me, even if this looks counter intuitive, that's the best and most serious way to approach development

maxresdefault (1).jpg

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4 minutes ago, Livio Persemprio said:

Yes you are :P

Jokes aside, it has been stated so many times that you shouldn't even be asking if you looked around this thread or any other related to dragons.

 

It's also OK for devs not to give ETAs since developing isn't something that goes as planned, we don't even get etas for animations and creative mode as well, that's just how it works, and believe me, even if this looks counter intuitive, that's the best and most serious way to approach development

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Early access development certainty. Games with release dates tend to rely on them more. :)

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