"How to connect generators" - Why??

[Snorrsenkel]

Hello everyone!

I real life, would you know how to connect the generator in the related picture?
Just fill up, start it and put the cable plug in the socket. Its not science. So why do survivors in PZ have to find the "How to connect generators" manual to use it? -It makes no sense.

You should be able to use freezer, cooker and bedside lamps without the manual. The manual should only give you the abillity to re-connect the original lights in the current house.
Maybe you should have to find the manual first, if you play as a female character. Just kidding.

[Magic Mark]

A random person could figure out how to turn these on, but we are talking about connecting the generator to a house's power supply, not plugging in a Playstation.

 

I think it's fair that new characters can turn these on and off but I can totally justify the need for the book on how to connect them. Granted at least I find the books easy to find, however I would totally agree with you if the books were rare.

[Snorrsenkel]

In a blackout situation, i am not trying to connect the whole house. Thats nonsense.
I plug in the fridge and lamps to the generator, thats all. Why would anyone ever need a manual for this?

Chapter II: "How to make a salad"

Edited April 12, 2016 by Snorrsenkel

[Magic Mark]

But in your OP you are questioning why you need a manual to connect the house to the generator. Why not ask why you can't hook up individual items manual-less instead.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Kim Jong Un

[EnigmaGrey]

Depending on the generator, just plugging things in is a great way to fry 'em. Many generators did not have built in inverters for running delicate appliances, couldn't handle surges or excessive draw, and didn't have power filters. Not to mention failing to ground the generator itself.

 

Which says it all, doesn't it?

 

(Power is tile-based and uses the building definition as wires.)

[CaptKaspar]

Simply put:

 

Because you are not plugging items into the generator. You are tieing the generator into an existing grid/system.

 

PS. Why would you ever post a horribly sexist comment like that and think it's ok to post a just kidding after it? Wow...

 

 

[Okamikurainya]

Well this actually brings up a cool idea.

 

Without the "How to use a Generator" guide the player could hook up a generator to a single device such as a tv or a fridge, but it would have a chance to blow the device it's hooked up to. Maybe a surge protector could be found rarely that you can add in the generator's device menu kind of like how you add headphones to a radio? I'm not sure if surge protectors existed back then?

 

Speaking of which, I don't honestly know much about generators... Would it use the same amount of gas regardless? Is there an idle rate of consumption? Or would a house really use it up faster than a single fridge?

[EnigmaGrey]

21 minutes ago, Okamikurainya said:

Well this actually brings up a cool idea.

 

Without the "How to use a Generator" guide the player could hook up a generator to a single device such as a tv or a fridge, but it would have a chance to blow the device it's hooked up to. Maybe a surge protector could be found rarely that you can add in the generator's device menu kind of like how you add headphones to a radio? I'm not sure if surge protectors existed back then?

 

Speaking of which, I don't honestly know much about generators... Would it use the same amount of gas regardless? Is there an idle rate of consumption? Or would a house really use it up faster than a single fridge?

I'd like that.

 

Some generates can control their throttle, others have only one speed. Not really sure what PZ is going for specifically, but it's always nice to have more options.

[Slice985]

12 hours ago, EnigmaGrey said:

Depending on the generator, just plugging things in is a great way to fry 'em. Many generators did not have built in inverters for running delicate appliances, couldn't handle surges or excessive draw, and didn't have power filters. Not to mention failing to ground the generator itself.

 

Which says it all, doesn't it?

 

(Power is tile-based and uses the building definition as wires.)

 

Well. I think this is also a counter point. When I was playing the game itself and running a command center to listen to all the lore. Tvs and stuff were blowing after like 4 days anyways. You can say these are fluctuations over the electrical lines, but everything in this game seems designed to blow up after a few days. Realistically one really wouldn't hook a generator to their whole house. Maybe I am a fool, I never read the "how to use a generator" but in 1993 in Louisville we had a terrible ice storm and we hooked up a generator to some lights, a toaster, occasionally a tiny heater during the night, and a boom box. using just an extension cord. No other filters or grounding or surge protection. 

 

I don't really remember many delicate appliances back in the 90s. We had a Windows 3.0 computer back then. But... It really wasn't useful enough for anything for us to care about powering it. 

 

Edited April 13, 2016 by Slice985

[Snorrsenkel]

I did some homework.
Modern generators usually have a inbuild inverter, meaning the electric generator unit is working independent from the engine. So you will be fine just to plug your stuff in, unless its really sensitive electronics, computers, stuff like that.

It is very possible that generators in the early 90s did not come with build-in inverters. In this case you have to manage the engine speed to come up with the correct energy output. Very good chance to break your stuff. So the manual makes sense, sort of.

Idea 1:
- new item "inverter unit", can be attached to generators
- Players who operate generators without the manual, or inverters will have a very high chance to blow up electronics

[Fryhizzle]

Find and read the owner's manual, and have it work just like it does now, but also allowing the player to attach to one or more devices.

If you don't read the manual, you cannot wire directly into the house, but only to one or more devices.  

 

Then all you have to do is add a higher chance of overload, and have attached devices run the risk of catching fire.

 

That would allow adventurous\illiterate players a chance to roll the dice for lights, and give the cautious player more reason to find a book, and more versatile options if they do.

[Demonic_Kat]

Honestly until I read your original post, I didn't know you could do that with a generator. So... I would need a manual. Actually.. I don't even know how to fill one up either. Perhaps I should actually look in to learning how to use one before a real apocalypse hits....

[King Kitteh]

1 hour ago, Demonic_Kat said:

Honestly until I read your original post, I didn't know you could do that with a generator. So... I would need a manual. Actually.. I don't even know how to fill one up either. Perhaps I should actually look in to learning how to use one before a real apocalypse hits....

For things like filling it up and plugging stuff in I'd assume they'd have some instructions on the actual generator. Things with safety hazards usually do.

[Slice985]

5 hours ago, Demonic_Kat said:

Honestly until I read your original post, I didn't know you could do that with a generator. So... I would need a manual. Actually.. I don't even know how to fill one up either. Perhaps I should actually look in to learning how to use one before a real apocalypse hits....

yea, its wiring a home where you can get into trouble, starting an electrical fire if you do it terribly wrong. But even in 1993 when there weren't many generators with built in inverters, I used that type of generator, in Louisville, in 1993, and you just plug a cord into it to a power strip and it works. A generator shouldn't be completely useless without a magazine. Even a complete idiot can run one. They have labels, there is obviously a place to put gas, obviously a place to plug a cord in, obviously a little level to shut it off. 

 

I mean, maybe you will have problems if you see an AC outlet and think..... Hmm.. maybe it cooks stuff I'll plug a grapefruit into it. But if its that bad... you probably can't read either, so the point is moot. The most idiotic things you can do are leaving the generator in a puddle or running your cords through water or running the thing in the house. But.. you don't need a magazine to tell you not to do that, they have little labels on them with a picture of a lightning bolt and a water drop with a slash through and a picture of it inside a house with a slash through it. Just let them kill themselves if that's the case. No need for hand holding... Don't run gas powered stuff indoors... unless you run an exhaust pipe out the window.  

[EnigmaGrey]

Yes, I suspect I'm wrong about the need for an inverter. Looks like older generators really do output 120v un-guratneed 60hz current. My mistake.

 

Was thinking of 12v systems!

[DresdenBBQ]

How do you know so much about generators?!?!?!?

[Slice985]

39 minutes ago, EnigmaGrey said:

Yes, I suspect I'm wrong about the need for an inverter. Looks like older generators really do output 120v un-guratneed 60hz current. My mistake.

 

Was thinking of 12v systems!

Some generators have a plug for putting in 12v as well as the normal 120 or 240v. Though normally the plugs don't match up to keep you from screwing stuff up. Also there are DC only generators.  

Here was an interesting guide I found from 1989, its an operators manual for a full line of generators

https://www.westerbeke.com/operator's%20manual/35729_4.0bcg_6.5bcg_oper_man_ed2.pdf

 

Now, repairing a generator. That should definitely need a manual for real repair. But I think it should really only come into play if you let it devolve into a "broken state"  the idea of changing the oil or adding more, clearing the filter, replacing dry rotted fuel hoses. Those are pretty easy to figure out, Maybe based on your electrical skill for how well you can do repairs and how much repair you can get on it. Now fixing a generator with a seized engine or something.. Yea.. get a manual.. Actually.. I doubt the manual is really gonna show you how to fix it, most like you will need to learn some real engine repair techniques. but thats really based on your electrical, mechanical skill as "Most" engines operate the same way. I expect if you can repair a busted car engine you have a good idea how to repair a generator engine. 

 

 

*EDIT - as far as tile based. maybe someone without the manual can connect only like a 3x3 or 4x4 area with power, no need to connect, just "place" the generator and everything in 3x3 comes on, but not wall switches.  but someone who has read the manual can connect a whole house, including the switches and . 

 

Edited April 14, 2016 by Slice985

[Geras]

2 hours ago, Slice985 said:

Some generators have a plug for putting in 12v as well as the normal 120 or 240v. Though normally the plugs don't match up to keep you from screwing stuff up. Also there are DC only generators.  

Here was an interesting guide I found from 1989, its an operators manual for a full line of generators

https://www.westerbeke.com/operator's%20manual/35729_4.0bcg_6.5bcg_oper_man_ed2.pdf

 

Now, repairing a generator. That should definitely need a manual for real repair. But I think it should really only come into play if you let it devolve into a "broken state"  the idea of changing the oil or adding more, clearing the filter, replacing dry rotted fuel hoses. Those are pretty easy to figure out, Maybe based on your electrical skill for how well you can do repairs and how much repair you can get on it. Now fixing a generator with a seized engine or something.. Yea.. get a manual.. Actually.. I doubt the manual is really gonna show you how to fix it, most like you will need to learn some real engine repair techniques. but thats really based on your electrical, mechanical skill as "Most" engines operate the same way. I expect if you can repair a busted car engine you have a good idea how to repair a generator engine. 

 

 

*EDIT - as far as tile based. maybe someone without the manual can connect only like a 3x3 or 4x4 area with power, no need to connect, just "place" the generator and everything in 3x3 comes on, but not wall switches.  but someone who has read the manual can connect a whole house, including the switches and . 

 

 

As a car mechanic myself I really like your suggestions. I hope Devs will read that.

 

Maybe instead the 3x3 or 4x4 tile rule, one would need to find a cable extension cord to plug stuff in. It would also be limited to how many sockets the extension has. There could be a few variations, like: 1 socket, 2 sockets, 4 sockets...

 

Edited April 14, 2016 by Geras

[Snorrsenkel]

In the current version wall lights will remain off, if your character has low electrical skills.

Detailed maintenance options would be very welcome.
Suggestions: Oil level check, spark plug exchange, circuit protectors, work hours.

[Demonic_Kat]

19 hours ago, Slice985 said:

yea, its wiring a home where you can get into trouble, starting an electrical fire if you do it terribly wrong. But even in 1993 when there weren't many generators with built in inverters, I used that type of generator, in Louisville, in 1993, and you just plug a cord into it to a power strip and it works. A generator shouldn't be completely useless without a magazine. Even a complete idiot can run one. They have labels, there is obviously a place to put gas, obviously a place to plug a cord in, obviously a little level to shut it off. 

 

I mean, maybe you will have problems if you see an AC outlet and think..... Hmm.. maybe it cooks stuff I'll plug a grapefruit into it. But if its that bad... you probably can't read either, so the point is moot. The most idiotic things you can do are leaving the generator in a puddle or running your cords through water or running the thing in the house. But.. you don't need a magazine to tell you not to do that, they have little labels on them with a picture of a lightning bolt and a water drop with a slash through and a picture of it inside a house with a slash through it. Just let them kill themselves if that's the case. No need for hand holding... Don't run gas powered stuff indoors... unless you run an exhaust pipe out the window.  

Perhaps the reading of the magazine represents the time it would take for me to figure out how to use a generator by looking at the pictographs on the side. Or perhaps, instead of a magazine telling how to run it it could be a 'right click': inspect pictographs. This would eliminate the need for the magazine and become more of a common sense thing.

 

On the other hand you have many people who have never encountered a generator at all. Pictographs are useless if they show a lightning bolt and water droplets if you don't already know that water conducts electricity. Seeing that there's an intake valve for fuel doesn't help if you don't know what fuel it runs on. Also if you don't know that carbon monoxide poisoning is a thing, you'll have no idea not to run it in a house. Children and young adults may not know these things. Adults that never have had to use gas powered machinery may not know these things. In their own rights, they never had a need to know these things, so they're not idiots, just ignorant. An instruction manual (the magazine) would remedy that ignorance.

 

The magazine also entices players to use something that ultimately becomes a tool in their demise. So I say it's a keeper.

 

Muahha ha hahahahahah

Edited April 15, 2016 by Demonic_Kat