Gun Ownership in America

[Kelefane]

I'm still of the opinion that firing off rounds inside of closed up buildings (especially deep inside the bowels of a building) shouldn't be attracting Z's from all over creation. The noise radius from popping off firearm rounds needs to be looked at when fired inside vs outside. The noise radius inside needs to be tuned down probably by 50% or so.  Especially when the building you're in is surrounded by other buildings.  There SHOULD be a noise filter in these situations.

 

As it stands, firing off rounds inside is pretty much the same as firing off rounds outside. At least in my experiences. That isn't realistic at all. 

Edited April 3, 2016 by Kelefane

[Rathlord]

12 minutes ago, Kelefane said:

I'm still of the opinion that firing off rounds inside of closed up buildings (especially deep inside the bowels of a building) shouldn't be attracting Z's from all over creation. The noise radius from popping off firearm rounds needs to be looked at when fired inside vs outside. The noise radius inside needs to be tuned down probably by 50% or so.  Especially when the building you're in is surrounded by other buildings.  There SHOULD be a noise buffer in these situations.

 

The limiting factor here is how much of the map is "active" or, in game terms, streamed, at a time. Even inside a dense city or somewhere with hills everywhere, the actual area a gunshot is heard (in real life) is MUCH farther than the amount of map that's active (in the game) at the time. If anything, the current system is easier than reality, not harder.

[EnigmaGrey]

Just now, Kelefane said:

I'm still of the opinion that firing off rounds inside of closed up buildings (especially deep inside the bowels of a building) shouldn't be attracting Z's from all over creation. The noise radius from popping off firearm rounds needs to be looked at when fired inside vs outside. The noise radius inside needs to be tuned down probably by 50% or so.  Especially when the building you're in is surrounded by other buildings.  There SHOULD be a noise buffer in these situations.

Pretty certain that's already factored in . . .and that's in PZ's default settings of only about 300 tiles follow-sound distance. They really aren't coming from "all over creation." They're coming from a max of 900 feet.
 

[Kelefane]

2 minutes ago, EnigmaGrey said:

Pretty certain that's already factored in . . .and that's in PZ's default settings of only about 300 tiles follow-sound distance. They really aren't coming from "all over creation." They're coming from a max of 900 feet.
 

 

Where is this setting located at exactly? It doesn't look familiar.  I'd like to tinker with it.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Kelefane

[EnigmaGrey]

4 minutes ago, Kelefane said:

 

Where is this setting located at exactly? It doesn't look familiar.  I'd like to tinker with it.

 

Advanced zombie options in Sandbox. It's "follow sound distance." For the default Survival mode, it's set to 300 out of a possible 1000 tiles.

Edited April 3, 2016 by EnigmaGrey
IPBB is just fucking up . . .

[Kelefane]

1 hour ago, EnigmaGrey said:

 

Advanced zombie options in Sandbox. It's "follow sound distance." For the default Survival mode, it's set to 300 out of a possible 1000 tiles.

 

Thanks. Lower number I'm guessing is the smaller radius. 

[lemmy101]

The radius of sounds inside buildings is shortened to any listeners not in those buildings. Likewise the radio of any sound outside a building is shortened to anyone inside of it. Sound in a building heard from another building is shortened even more extremely. At least this was the code last time I looked at it it's possible that factor has been lost over the past few years in changes to the systems, but as I understand it that's how it works.

[Magic Mark]

5 hours ago, Rathlord said:

 

Then why are you talking about them at all. That's just a complete waste of time on the "Suggestions" forum. If you just want to banter about suppressors, take it to General Discussion. And again, especially in 1990's, there was not a huge market for them. The numbers are out there. The market's definitely growing now but that's not relevant to this discussion.

 

 

4 hours ago, Rathlord said:

 

Hence you're just wasting our time. This is a discussion about game features. If you want to take this cop-out, take it elsewhere. And you're still objectively wrong, suppressors do "suck" for most applications. They can't even get the sound into the safe hearing zone generally speaking. And they don't do much, as objectively proven by freaking science. If you're just going to jam your fingers in your ears and yell "nuh-uh" to actual facts, stop posting. Their best application (for civvies, of course)? For hunters to lower noise pollution with "sharp" sounds. It's still loud but less sharp sounds are less likely to waken or disturb people. Yes, they have a use. No, it's not relevant to this freaking conversation, which is now apparently about suppressors in PZ. If you're not talking about that, stop posting in the suggestions forum about it.

 

This IS the general discussion. I never created a thread about suppressors. None of this conversation at all so far has taken place on the I/S. This is the same gun 'what-ifs' thread - which was already talking about suppressors before I added my 2 cents (as you did too).

 

And by the way ,

"And they don't do much, as objectively proven by freaking science. If you're just going to jam your fingers in your ears and yell "nuh-uh" to actual facts, stop posting."

 

Awesome, you debunked hollywood suppressors. I never disagreed with that. I disagree with the statement "suppressors don't do shit", because they do. Which I never that the real thing was quiet- I said they change the sound, which they do, and do well. They also greatly affect the muzzle flash, which is also an important part of being concealed while shooting. Which was part of my point.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Kim Jong Un

[EnigmaGrey]

If most people believe silencers silence gun shots, then failing to silence a gunshot doesn't appear to meet the criteria of "do well." But it's interesting to see someone finally mention flash suppression, even if I'm not sure it'd matter to zombies. And, due to the perspective of the game and limited view probably wouldn't be a useful gameplay mechanic either.

 

Still, nice to see someone bring it up.

[Rathlord]

13 minutes ago, Kim Jong Un said:

Awesome, you debunked hollywood suppressors. I never disagreed with that. I disagree with the statement "suppressors don't do shit", because they do. Which I never that the real thing was quiet- I said they change the sound, which they do, and do well. They also greatly affect the muzzle flash, which is also an important part of being concealed while shooting. Which was my point.

 

Regardless, this is a thread suggesting things relevant to the game. What you're talking about isn't relevant to the thread at all. Stop the off topic posting, or it will be stopped for you. You have an interesting use of quotation marks, there, too, to set up a completely fictional strawman. Congrats on disagreeing with a statement no one made.

 

Edit: And no, I debunked three uninformed points that you made. Nothing to do with hollywood, even though I mentioned the word.

[Rathlord]

Also, moved the thread to suggestions since it's clearly a suggestions thread, even in the OP. Forgive me for not double checking a suggestion thread was in the right subforum.

[DresdenBBQ]

I believe that there should be more guns in project zomboid, but not to make it a shit fest, admins should control spawns on servers i mean, i live in Texas and we live off of Barbecue, the Bible, and the gun. I mean i can go open a new bank account and they'll give me a .45, a shotgun, and an AR-15. So more guns would be nice and diversity because i love me my inerchangable gun parts. Also i went to the range the other day to fire off some fully automatic AK's and a guy there had a WWII era MG42 that he let me try (It,s amazing). I noticed on Redboid that Engima or someone else messed with the gun spawns to where i can't get automatics anymore which is understandable but makes me dissapointed. (I mean i luved AK-47 ;_; why did you have to take it from me D:)

Also there were over 145,000 registered assault rifles in California prior to 2001.

 

[EnigmaGrey]

So that's only . . . 3 assault rifles per 1000 people (?) . . .  (California, 2001)

 

Not sure if that really helps the "common as dirt" case.

[Magic Mark]

I'm more than satisfied with what Lemmy had to say about the vision for guns, to be honest. All I can ask for at this point is more admin control over the spawns (possibly custom loot lists without having to mod) somewhere down the line, as an advanced option. 

[DresdenBBQ]

What i meant is only 145,000 registered police assault rifles prior to 2001, before the big gun craze kicked in. We still have to account for assault rifles belonging to citizens as well if that means registered, illegal, untraceable guns like that. and this is in the state of California ALONE.

[King jjwpenguin]

On 4/7/2016 at 1:39 PM, Kim Jong Un said:

I'm more than satisfied with what Lemmy had to say about the vision for guns, to be honest. All I can ask for at this point is more admin control over the spawns (possibly custom loot lists without having to mod) somewhere down the line, as an advanced option. 

I would love to increase categories even more finely, as in increases forks and knives but not guns when i increase weapons. Increasing guns but not other weapons.

[Rathlord]

8 hours ago, Queen Glory said:

What i meant is only 145,000 registered police assault rifles prior to 2001, before the big gun craze kicked in. We still have to account for assault rifles belonging to citizens as well if that means registered, illegal, untraceable guns like that. and this is in the state of California ALONE.

 

Keep in mind the game also takes place in early 1990's...

And a lot of statistics sound very impressive, until you actually put them in perspective.

[Millitron]

Suppressors could possibly be used to decrease the effect of panic?

Realistically, guns are so loud that they're disorienting to shoot if you're not well-accustomed to it.  I'd think maybe there should either be a new moodle for disorientation or just co-opt panic, and have it be increased by firing a gun with low firearms skill.  A suppressor would decrease the amount of disorientation or panic each shot caused.

Last summer, I went shooting with friends, and one fired his Mosin Nagant rifle before I had my ear protection in.  Maybe 20 feet away.  I felt the muzzle blast inside my head; my sinuses I guess.  And I heard ringing the rest of the day.  It was quite uncomfortable.

So basically, I'm suggesting that there are more things a suppressor could be good for in-game than just hiding from zombies.  You never have earplugs in PZ, maybe frequent gunshots without a suppressor should cause loss of hearing?  We already have the deaf character trait after all.  I'm not sure this would be a good idea, but I think it's worth consideration.

[Magic Mark]

1 hour ago, Millitron said:

Suppressors could possibly be used to decrease the effect of panic?

Realistically, guns are so loud that they're disorienting to shoot if you're not well-accustomed to it.  I'd think maybe there should either be a new moodle for disorientation or just co-opt panic, and have it be increased by firing a gun with low firearms skill.  A suppressor would decrease the amount of disorientation or panic each shot caused.

Last summer, I went shooting with friends, and one fired his Mosin Nagant rifle before I had my ear protection in.  Maybe 20 feet away.  I felt the muzzle blast inside my head; my sinuses I guess.  And I heard ringing the rest of the day.  It was quite uncomfortable.

So basically, I'm suggesting that there are more things a suppressor could be good for in-game than just hiding from zombies.  You never have earplugs in PZ, maybe frequent gunshots without a suppressor should cause loss of hearing?  We already have the deaf character trait after all.  I'm not sure this would be a good idea, but I think it's worth consideration.

 

I really don't think adding hearing loss on to the list of things that make guns undesirable as-is is going to help the firearms situation. For gameplay purposes we should at least give guns that. 

Edited April 9, 2016 by Kim Jong Un

[Millitron]

Well I don't see that any change to firearms that's realistic at all will improve their usefulness, at least not until NPC's are in.  They just aren't that useful against zombies, and that probably shouldn't change.  There's no realistic way to have gunshots not be a county-wide dinner bell.  There's no realistic way to make them more able to wipe out thousands of zombies.  But they'd be VERY useful against NPC's.  Given that people can sprint faster than even the fastest zombies, you will need a gun to either prevent an NPC from fleeing, or defend yourself from a melee NPC.  Right now, you don't have to take any fight you don't want to.  You can just run away.  If you're fit, you can even just walk away.  But with NPC's, fights will be much more dangerous, because they will be able to keep up with and catch you.  It may be worth ringing that county-wide dinner bell if it means you can escape the axe-wielding maniac chasing you.

I'm a big fan of the way PZ handles health and psychology though, and I'd like it to be expanded upon.  PZ's the only game I can think off that monitors your mental state; it's also got a much deeper medical system than I've seen outside Dwarf Fortress. And these things wouldn't affect just the player; presumably NPC's will be just as susceptible to moodles.

Maybe not hearing loss, or at least not without ear protection being about as common as guns, but at least the mental effects would be cool.

5 hours ago, Rathlord said:

 

Keep in mind the game also takes place in early 1990's...

And a lot of statistics sound very impressive, until you actually put them in perspective.

Is it really in the early 90's?  The motel sign advertising free wifi seems anachronistic then.  So do the earbuds and the Flatscreen TV's.  I suspect the pistol laser sights and carbon-fiber stocks are as well.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Millitron
Fixing a typo, also commenting on what Rathlord said

[DresdenBBQ]

Yeah this game is supposed to be set in the 90s but a lot of stuff they have didn't exist or was just too bulky and inconvenient.

[EnigmaGrey]

The 90s thing was a recent decision and things need to be or have been altered since.