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Gun Ownership in America

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"37% of Americans say they or someone in their household owns a gun" according to a Pew Research Center survey conducted in February, 2013. A 2007 study by the U.N.'s Office on Drugs and Crime found that the United States, which has 5% of the world's population, owns 50% of the world's guns. Another Pew Research Center study found that people living in a rural area were twice as likely to own a gun as those living in an urban area.

I'm just saying, while searching through houses in a rural area of Kentucky, it doesn't feel like I'm finding a proportionate amount of 50% of the worlds guns.

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1 minute ago, Quigleyer said:

I must be doing something wrong with guns in this game.  I have never, ever said, "man I'm glad I fired that gun" after doing so in this game.  It usually comes with a large amount of regret and a solemn oath to never do it again...

When you've got full auto guns and thousands of rounds . . . maybe a few friends in MP to help out . . . shambling zombies are no match.

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Well if you're looking for challenge in the post zombie-apocalypse world, try Singapore. Per square mile, they would have about 20,000 zombies and less than 100 guns. You would be so buff from killing all those zombies with a baseball bat.

Edited by alpha
grammar

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1 hour ago, EnigmaGrey said:

When you've got full auto guns and thousands of rounds . . . maybe a few friends in MP to help out . . . shambling zombies are no match.

 

There are very few full-auto guns in the US.  No FA guns newer than 1986 are legal for civilians to own, all pre-86 MG's are registered, and no new ones can be added to the registry.  This means that the ones that ARE legal to own are very expensive.  To the point that an FA-version of a gun can cost tens of thousands of dollars more than the semi-auto version, despite being almost identical.

There are ~300,000,000 guns in the US.  There are only 500,000 registered fully-automatic weapons; most of which are owned by police, not civilians.

There really are a huge number of guns in the US, but unlike what Hollywood would have you believe, the vast majority of which are not fully automatic.

Edited by Millitron
fixing a typo

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2 hours ago, alpha said:

"37% of Americans say they or someone in their household owns a gun" according to a Pew Research Center survey conducted in February, 2013. A 2007 study by the U.N.'s Office on Drugs and Crime found that the United States, which has 5% of the world's population, owns 50% of the world's guns. Another Pew Research Center study found that people living in a rural area were twice as likely to own a gun as those living in an urban area.

I'm just saying, while searching through houses in a rural area of Kentucky, it doesn't feel like I'm finding a proportionate amount of 50% of the worlds guns.

 

The US has 50% of the world's guns? Glad I live on the side that has the guns!

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1 hour ago, CaptKaspar said:

 

The US has 50% of the world's guns? Glad I live on the side that has the guns!

Haha yep. I'm a gun lover and proud of it. What  led me into it was my interests in history, particularly military history. Started collecting World War rifles. Mosin nagants, Mauser K98K, Vz24, Enfield, Springfield, M1 Garand, Arisaka, SKS, etc. My M44 nagant had kill marks etched into it, 1944 production so it likely saw use at Seelow heights or Berlin. Target shooting and firearm collecting is a great past time that I heartily recommend every American try out responsibly. Go to the range with a gun buddy and learn about firearms, take a course in safety and use. Try out target shooting and work up to skeet and competitive shooting. Enjoy the past time that is a right and responsibility! :) Oh, and don't buy into media hype on gun violence in the U.S. It's down 40% in 20 years, and rifles of all types (full auto, semi auto, bolt action, pump action, lever action, etc) account for 6% of all gun deaths. 

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I honestly have to agree, the amount of guns is pretty lackluster, I know we can sandbox it, but I still think it's pretty crazy. I mean, I don't think I've ever seen a hunting rifle outside of a gunshop, but I guess that's what the gunshops are for.

 

For now I'll just pretend all those guns were taken by other survivors, which currently own invisibility cloaks.

Except when you sandbox a world with no zombies, and then you find them randomly dead in the streets.

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I live in Louisville, right where this takes place and yes Gun Ownership is very high. My best friends father even has several AK-47s, M4s and other high powered rifles. No automatic clip on them. Though if you know a lot about guns you can fabricate an automatic clip. My friend has an AR and a 12 gauge. I have a 38, most of my family has several shotguns and hunting rifles.

 

In this area small pistols like 9m and 38s are very common as well as 10 gauge shotguns. I go to Knobb Creek fairly regularly, which is the gun range in this game. The place is packed with people most weekends The building itself is stuffed floor to ceiling with ammo, including many machine guns. But In the city core,  guns become much less numerous then in the suburbs and far less then rural areas where someone may own several rifles.

 

The problem you would have in a zombie apocalypse is that most people buy guns based on looks or feel, this leads to many different ammo types. As my example above my family all have weapons, but we all own different ammo types.

 

The second problem is that once the apocalypse started, a lot of that ammo is going to be destroyed or used. Most people will only have 1 box of ammo, maybe 2 at most. In the burbs, most gun owners also have gun locks which secure the gun from use by children, these are usually a padlock type or key lock which you may or may not find if you are looting a house. Say the owner has his gun lock on his key ring, he gets killed out in the streets. You will never find the key nor will you know the padlock combination. Which means you have to go through the lengthy process of prying off the trigger lock of most guns you find with a screwdriver. If you can get it off at all. If you are lucky and still had power, you could run a powered hand drill through the bolt and get them off that way. 

Edited by Slice985

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Some firearms should be real common: .22's, 12 and 20 gauges, .45's and 9mm's. Those are the common firearms in America households. From there stuff like AR15's etc should be rare. 

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(Lengthy post, but I feel that this is a somewhat thought-out view on this subject. TL;DR there is more room to play with here than some may think)

 

The lack of emphasis on gun culture in general in the game is something that has really annoyed me, although I understand why it wouldn't look desirable to make the change.

 

So many decisions are made around development based on what is realistic for the setting, I just think the extremely large amount of gun ownership especially in Kentucky should be regarded, even if it means just adding shotguns/rifles to home spawn lists and automatic/sport weapons in the future. As for making the game easier... guns are relatively easy to find as-is, all this change would do (apart from more accurately represent gun culture in Kentucky) is make different varieties more available. If you, for example, find a single hunting rifle in a map where respawn isn't on, you already have a hard time finding the gun parts to fix it with, so for loot balance it could work for that too.

 

As for gun varieties, there definitely needs to be at least some automatic weapons (and a variety of professional/cheap variants/brands/models of currently existing weapon types) for the game to hold credibility on it's 90's Kentucky setting. We already know that there are military establishments that are supposed to be ingame at some point. I understand from a gameplay perspective why you wouldn't want it to become DayZ where several militarized players dominate the server, but from a single-player perspective (and even a multiplayer perspective where the gun spawn rate is admin-controlled) the problems could be circumvented simply by adding the options.

 

There is a huge opportunity here to capitalize on the setting. Plenty of games are praised for their gunplay, the setting definitely allows for it to work here, too.

 

When the game does release, and Fort Knox and the military airfield just south of what we have already is added, do you really see late-game multiplayer communities fighting each other with just basic handguns and big-game rifles? In Kentucky, of all places? It would take a lot of material and research on the balance to fully defend that from the critical side of the playerbase.

 

Considering it is hard enough as-is ingame to hit anything with a pistol and especially rifle with no gun skill (and the rate it takes to learn it), there is more room to play with here than you may think.

 

In my humble opinion, this should be something the devs test and get feedback on before writing it off completely.

Edited by Kim Jong Un

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1 hour ago, Kim Jong Un said:

Considering it is hard enough as-is ingame to hit anything with a pistol and especially rifle with no gun skill (and the rate it takes to learn it), there is more room to play with here than you may think.

 

Haha I wish you wrote that one just a wee bit earlier, I went in thinking I was going to make myself a man last night with 3 fully loaded pistol magazines, a fully-loaded-and-then-some shotgun, and a bunch of mollies.  I came back fearful of my life, exhausted, chased all the way home by zombies... with a very painful burn on my leg.  Thank goodness for thick skin, eh?
 

I know this is going to sound weak coming from the guy who can't seem to hit a zombie in a crowd at the moment, but I do hope that the developers stay cautious in this area.  While the developers are trying to make a difficult survival game with re-play value, I understand they're also really focused on multiplayer right now.  Making guns really easy to find by increasing their spawn chance in a setting that constantly re-spawns loot speaks of an environment that can easily become kill-on-site.  Without regular server wipes those on top will always stay on top... you know?

 

Just my two cents in multiplayer survival games.  Easily accessible guns in online survival multiplayer games easily turns into a void of character interaction, at least in my experience.

 

 

Edited by Quigleyer

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18 minutes ago, Quigleyer said:

 

Haha I wish you wrote that one just a wee bit earlier, I went in thinking I was going to make myself a man last night with 3 fully loaded pistol magazines, a fully-loaded-and-then-some shotgun, and a bunch of mollies.  I came back fearful of my life, exhausted, chased all the way home by zombies... with a very painful burn on my leg.  Thank goodness for thick skin, eh?
 

I know this is going to sound weak coming from the guy who can't seem to hit a zombie in a crowd at the moment, but I do hope that the developers stay cautious in this area.  While the developers are trying to make a difficult survival game with re-play value, I understand they're also really focused on multiplayer right now.  Making guns really easy to find by increasing their spawn chance in a setting that constantly re-spawns loot speaks of an environment that can easily become kill-on-site.  Without regular server wipes those on top will always stay on top... you know?

 

Just my two cents in multiplayer survival games.  Guns in online multiplayer games easily turns into a void of character interaction, at least in my experience.

 

 

As an ex-player of DayZ from back in the day when a bandit was a guy who held you up for a can of beans, and didn't KOS, I couldn't agree more.

 

This is why I think it should be admin-controlled for multiplayer. However my stance comes from the view that a lot of servers end up turning respawning loot on or increase the amount of guns themselves (or just use mods) to do the same thing. As it is, there is plenty of room to play with when it comes to adding powerful guns into the pool. Other than for PVP in multiplayer, maxing out your gun skill isn't entirely desirable at the moment. 

 

This is the kind of thing testing would be required for since Project Zomboid does not have much in common with those kinds of game and has plenty of unique features in it's own right. The medical system and panic, as well as the effects of having a low aiming skill , are very de-motivational for KOS style combat in a non-PVP server.

Edited by Kim Jong Un

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Play with Lucky for the true American experience. Every other corpse has a weapon or ammo on it.

Otherwise, i don't think it really matters in terms of "realism". There's far weirder things than a lack of guns in the game: toolsheds consisting of a single solitary nail, for example. It all comes down to balance.

 

If they decide to start sticking guns all over the place, the only logical solution is to then give us a bunch of Bubs from Day of the Dead...and you don't want that...

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7 hours ago, Kelefane said:

Some firearms should be real common: .22's, 12 and 20 gauges, .45's and 9mm's. Those are the common firearms in America households. From there stuff like AR15's etc should be rare. 

The AR15 is the single most common gun in the US.  There's over 1 million of them.

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17 minutes ago, Millitron said:

The AR15 is the single most common gun in the US.  There's over 1 million of them.

 

You can't possibly convince me that its more common than the .22 and 12 gauge among common households. The .22 is the first firearm someone usually receives in their young life. 12 gauge isn't far behind it. Everyone that owns guns, has a .22 and 12 gauge. 

Edited by Kelefane

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One thing that bothers me about the guns is that the varmint rifle is bolt action... .223/5.56 bolt action rifles have never and will never be popular in the united states. The most popular "varmint rifle" of the era this game is set in was probably the ruger mini-14 which is semi automatic. The AR15 craze where everyone and their mother bought one hadn't really kicked in by 1993 as far as I know.

Oh and while we're talking about properly fitting the era the game is set in... The pistol red dot sight is a total anachronism, and laser sights for handguns in 1993 were a big bulky affair.

I wouldn't mind a .45 pistol. The M1911 is an insanely popular pistol that has no IP issues to worry about. The AR15//CAR15 also have no IP issues to worry about, Colt lost that battle a long time ago to Bushmaster, you can build a real rifle and call it an AR15. Please just don't add a rifle and call it an "M4" please, we have enough anachronisms.


EDIT: and for the people that say "just use ORGM".. it is full of anachronstic weaponry and exotic crap like desert eagles and steyr augs etc. I want realistic weapons not call of duty...

Edited by zomboid123

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I think you guys are getting a little tied up in what type of gun is in the game. I mean, it's stated on the commonly listed suggestions page that you they will never add specific named firearms.

 

The most you'll ever get his, 'pistol', 'shotgun'

 

If they add more firearms they will be given similar generic names like 'assault rifle', 'machine gun', 'dragon laser mega cannon 5000 with cupholder™'.

 

Don't get caught up in what is the most popular gun, or what is the correct ammunition.

This does sorta break the idea that there should be multiple types of pistols and such with different ammunition, but IMO that would just get annoying.

 

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9 minutes ago, King Kitteh said:

I think you guys are getting a little tied up in what type of gun is in the game. I mean, it's stated on the commonly listed suggestions page that you they will never add specific named firearms.

 

The most you'll ever get his, 'pistol', 'shotgun'

 

If they add more firearms they will be given similar generic names like 'assault rifle', 'machine gun', 'dragon laser mega cannon 5000 with cupholder™'.

 

Don't get caught up in what is the most popular gun, or what is the correct ammunition.

This does sorta break the idea that there should be multiple types of pistols and such with different ammunition, but IMO that would just get annoying.

 



They don't have to be named but they should be period and location correct. How would you like if laptops and iphone facsmilies popped up in a game set in 1993? Or how a car fanatic would feel when they added cars to the game they all had european markings/lights/steering wheel positions? It's the same for us gun guys, it is immersion breaking to period incorrect weapons or firearms that don't fit the location.

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39 minutes ago, Trojan_Turps said:

I think you should have a higher number of guns and a lower number of ammo. Guns are only OP if you have lots of ammo for them. More gun/ammo types would also help mix things up and make finding the right ammo for your gun more challenging.

 

They're talking about letting the new metalworker skill craft bullets at high skill level. So I think this would tie in nicely to your suggestion.

It would make having a dedicated metalworker an important asset in multiplayer (or singleplayer). Although... they already kinda are with their other skills like making nails.

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On 3/24/2016 at 5:14 PM, EnigmaGrey said:

When you've got full auto guns and thousands of rounds . . . maybe a few friends in MP to help out . . . shambling zombies are no match.

This is true. I always appreciated the end of the 1990 remake of Night of the Living Dead; rednecks basically end the zombie outbreak in a night with their overwhelming firepower. However I find ammo incredibly scarce in PZ. Even if you were to triple the amount of ammo available, it would barely make a dent in the zombie pop. You could use it to add extra flavor to the "6 Months Later" start, when ammo is essentially spent.

On 3/24/2016 at 6:30 PM, Millitron said:

 

There are very few full-auto guns in the US.  No FA guns newer than 1986 are legal for civilians to own, all pre-86 MG's are registered, and no new ones can be added to the registry.  This means that the ones that ARE legal to own are very expensive.  To the point that an FA-version of a gun can cost tens of thousands of dollars more than the semi-auto version, despite being almost identical.

There are ~300,000,000 guns in the US.  There are only 500,000 registered fully-automatic weapons; most of which are owned by police, not civilians.

There really are a huge number of guns in the US, but unlike what Hollywood would have you believe, the vast majority of which are not fully automatic.

It may not be legal, but as an Arizonan who sold firearms I can tell you, there are plenty of people who buy semi-auto ARs with the full intention of converting them to fully-auto. It's not a particularly difficult conversion. I can only imagine what it's like in the rural southeast :)

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2 hours ago, sadpickle said:

This is true. I always appreciated the end of the 1990 remake of Night of the Living Dead; rednecks basically end the zombie outbreak in a night with their overwhelming firepower. However I find ammo incredibly scarce in PZ. Even if you were to triple the amount of ammo available, it would barely make a dent in the zombie pop. You could use it to add extra flavor to the "6 Months Later" start, when ammo is essentially spent.

It may not be legal, but as an Arizonan who sold firearms I can tell you, there are plenty of people who buy semi-auto ARs with the full intention of converting them to fully-auto. It's not a particularly difficult conversion. I can only imagine what it's like in the rural southeast :)

 

If i recall correctly, the end of Night of the living dead stated that they "won" on the country side, in the cities and other areas however, Dawn of the dead took place, where everyone pretty much was getting fucked by zombies and then everyone died in Day of the dead.

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13 minutes ago, Blasted_Taco said:

 

If i recall correctly, the end of Night of the living dead stated that they "won" on the country side, in the cities and other areas however, Dawn of the dead took place, where everyone pretty much was getting fucked by zombies and then everyone died in Day of the dead.

 

You can pick up stragglers and loose groups in open ground pretty easily. Thousands of corpses in a tight corner city? Not happening.

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