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Metalworking *spoilers*


Zorak

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That's completely dank RJ and Mash !

The first thing/suggestion that comes to mind when I see allov this (and all that's been said already), is craftable metal marbles -for an eventual DIY slingshot? those could pierce some pretty nice holes in rotten corpses or little animals- and craftable arrow heads when archery becomes a thing ^^

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4 hours ago, RobertJohnson said:

Oh also, putting petrol in the metal drums looks like a really good idea! Gonna do that tomorrow :D

Metal drum are here to act as a rain collector barrel (but a big one) and you can also do charcoal in them (with logs, it require lot of time/ressources tho), because the stone furnace need to be run on coal and not logs (to provides more heat)

 

Does that mean that we can use the metal drums to heat up the house instead of a campfire too?

 

I mean, there is no current way to heat up a house in winter outside of doing a campfire and burning the whole place down.

 

Also good thing this is getting locked behind professions, the most important thing that i see here is the production of nails, which always ends up becoming the currency of almost every server.

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Well, it's something you could do from day 1-2 (well, if you don't sleep, 'cause the stone furnace require lot of stones :D) but i wouldn't recommend doing it.. Who need tons of nails day 2? :D

 

It's more something for people who are already settle a bit, i'd say 2-4 weeks you can start metal, you'll need lot of metal objects to melt anyway!

Because let's say a spoon melt give you 1/10 of an ingot, crafting a spoon will take 2/10 (to avoid crafting/melting to have infinite xp), and it'll prob be worse with balancing :D

 

Repairing with blacksmith prob comes too yup, even tho it'll need a sharpening whell, thing i currently don't have, and with that i'm afraid people will ask even more for swords/katana (doing a kitchen knife is far from doing a katana!)

 

Also, doing an axe or a kitchen knife will require a carpenter to do the handle as it's kinda hard to do!

 

Combinning skill is something i'm looking for, Lemmy is up for it too like metal + electricity and why not create a fridge? metal + trapping = bear trap! Thing being it's prob more a MP goal than a SP (having 10 blacksmith and 7-8 electricity can be hard to get in solo! :D)

 

@Trojan_Turps: nice idea! right now metal barricade are almost invincible to zombies (bear in mind they're hard to make + require a blowtorch to be installed) but making more noise is a damn good idea and realistic :D

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Loving this update. 

 

Could you you please add (for mp) a way to also craft door locks and keys, especially for these new metal doors, so that we can better secure our bases? 

 

A way to make duplicate keys with this would also be great to share amongst people the base is shared with 

Edited by RicoUK
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My suggestion metal ladders of some sort, they would be a high level end game item that could be placed against walls and would help players up 1-2 floors so players don't have to resort to building random stairs and then a floor in the middle of nowhere to reach a roof, or at least these being found in warehouses would be nice.

 

And i like the idea of gates, something like from Alexandria in TWD that we can open and close for when vehicles are introduced, make it happen please :P

Edited by Neutralnz1
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While I like the overall idea of metalworking I have to disagree with the furnace design.

 

I think many will agree that no one would go to forage stones, while you can grab a sledgehammer and tear down a piece of brick wall and take nice and even bricks to build your furnace with... just knock the remaining mortar off and there you go. Or simply go here http://pzmap.crash-override.net/#0.38805596588462277,0.19176192377187823,1020.674699978531 and just grab some!

 

Also, without any source of forced air flow what that is is just a big barbecue, as you need a lot of airflow to get to higher temperatures.

 

I mean you can get away with melting aluminium with just a propane tank with a torch (or charcoal and a hair dryer to blow air in), an insulated metal can and a steel crucible, but steel is a different story (aluminium melting point is at 660.3 degrees Celsius / 1220.54 Fahrenheit and steel is at 1400 degrees Celsius / 2552 Fahrenheit).

 

About making bullets: lead is by far the easiest metal to melt. You can do it in your kitchen if you can stand the smell. And we already have outdoor charcoal and propane grills suitable for lead melting. The only problem would be with making or finding an appropriate bullet casting mold.

Edited by Geras
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I guess I'll drop my two cents here regarding this:

 

First of all: Love the implication that crafting specific stuff, like kitchen knives will require you to have two professionals at different expertises. That will bring balance and stop people from becoming gods on earth from day 2.

 

Now: My initial idea, to make the survival in the woods AND on the high population servers viable (It is only a matter of time until the towns are fully looted) is to, essentially, be able to craft EVERYTHING you ever could scavenge from the cities, without being forced to scavenge the cities. For example: There is always this hurdle around not being able to find an axe, or saw, or nails, or sledgehammer after looking for one through 2+ towns. Well, now all you need is a high skilled forger, high skilled carpenter and a ton of scavenged materials (For the hell of it, let's say a high skilled foraging guy, to scavenge them from the woods, too.) Now you'll be able to craft your own saw, nails, axe, etc - everything you need, without the need to ever go out into the city (which can be already ransacked) and find it all yourself.

This would finally make playing on servers with empty towns POSSIBLE, because ransacking towns wouldn't be your only option. Building communities with it's own economies would also make it more viable long-term.. But a lot of this will fall on balance. You'd have to make it so it's impossible, even as a forger taken in as profession, to forge absolutely every item necessary for your long term survival. You'd have to train for quite a bit before you're capable of crafting saws, axes, sledgehammers.. Perhaps long enough for it to be viable at around 3-4 months, given that this is all you are focused on. This means that your party of friends would have to keep bringing items for you to train on, while you start your way by foraging spoons, forks, butter knives and slowly build your XP towards better stuff.

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So many great ideas !! This update will be huge.

Im happy that there will be items that require to have 2 or more high lvl skills to craft.

RJ ive seen your post on twitter about adding new smelting skill. IMO dont go that way and just tie it with metalworking. I preffer few skills but more deep and unique.

That bear traps you mentioned ! Finally ! I always wanted more love for that skill, not only gathering food but also for defending. Bear traps, spikes, tripwire, yes please.

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RJ, reading about your idea for the fridge, I think that it may have to be increase in difficulty. Even if one has the requisite skills, they should have to be able to find certain books that tell them how to design a cooling unit or make sufficient insulators. That way, it could go sort of back to realism by forcing even players who may have the requisite skills to go looting for an instructional literature to learn how to make the parts. Also, I noticed on Twitter that you posted about metal fences; do those only have an aesthetic purpose, or can the do things wooden fences cannot. Will we see wooden gates? I guess my final question is: would it be possible to get burned or start a fire without the proper equipment? Sorry for the winding post.

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I don't know if it's just me or not, but charcoal is made in the absence of oxygen. So you'd need to stuff the barrel with wood, close it tight with lid, put it on a camp fire and make the camp fire burn real nice and high for a few long hours. Cannot be done any simplier.

 

It's not that I'm dissing the idea, it's just on one side you guys introduce a complicated hunger system with gaining and losing weight, with carbohydrates, proteins and stuff and yet you, I don't know - don't make enough research or something and show us a person burning wood in a metal barrel, because that's what it is basically. I'd just expect a higher level of complexity and thoroughness from this system.

Edited by Geras
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YES! METALWORKING!

 

NO SWORDS? NOOOOOOOOOoooooooo

 

Those images look really good. There are actual metal sheets on the window. My suggestions for that are to have the option of putting them on the outside of the house to make them resist pushing better, and to have holes in them that you can look through and poke your spear or gun through. The anvil-shaped anvil surprised me. I haven't played Project Zomboid for a long time because it feels incomplete, but I will probably give it another go when metalworking gets added.

 

@Geras When I saw the barrel with the flames I thought it was a crude forge without the bellows visible, but if it's meant to be making charcoal then I agree with you. Or maybe it's for cooking over.

 

I agree that bricks should be fine to make furnaces out of too, because you could get your hands on them easier, and not need to shape them yourself of worry about which stones explode when heated. Bricks and clay. You could also make one just out of clay.

 

It makes sense for only people with a certain profession to start as expert metalworkers, but I feel it should be possible for others to give it a go too. I have never worked hot iron in my life, but I know the basics and how to make a forge, so if there were zombies I could actually make a forge and start teaching myself. I know someone who's made himself a forge, and it's basically just charcoal + bellows, and I know someone who did metalworking at his school. I know someone else to once took a piece of scrap steel and sharpened it into a sword. Perhaps the amateur PZ blacksmith could work really slowly and have a chance of making something badly, and not know how to make or temper steel.

Also please please please don't make it so that if you want to whittle away at a stick to make a nice comfortable handle for your knife, you have to be a carpenter. That's like saying you have to be a chef to boil water. We might as well need to be professional leather workers to to things with leather.

 

There's going to be melting down metals into ingots. I think there should be some parameters attached to every metal item, for high-carbon steel and low-carbon steel and stainless steel, so if you melt down just stainless steel spoons you'll get a stainless steel ingot. Melting lead should be relatively easy.

 

Forgive me if I'm mistaken but this thread reads like to make something out of iron, you are going to have to melt down things into an ingot and make it out of that. Let's not forget about working with metal in the form we already have it in. You could find a bar of steel. Instead of melting it down into an ingot and then hammering it out into a bar again before you get working, you could just leave it as a bar. Then you can flatten it into a nice long blade, and then cut it into shorter blades as knives because otherwise it would be a sword, which would be forbidden. You could just attach a sheet of iron to your window instead of melting it down and making it back into a sheet. You could make a worn-down file into a knife, because files are made of good steel (without having to melt it first).

 

Well as a break from realism we can't have swords, but we can have knives. How about having really big knives? Machetes? Machetes would be good tools for cutting branches and vegetables, and could also function as improvised weapons against zombies. While you're at it, why not have a really long machete? Or a long-handled Machete? Yeah, let's have a machete on the end of a five-foot pole.

Edited by Gaffa Tape Warrior
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On 3/17/2016 at 3:05 PM, Joshnpk said:

Metal working? This isn't Minecraft it's Zomboid. An average Joe (which is who you are in Zomboid) couldn't set up a working forge in the middle of the deep south, I hope this is a joke or something cause this is honestly stupid and doesn't fit with Zomboid at all.

Metal working is an ancient discipline. It doesn't require Youtube or an electrical grid. All it requires is knowledge and application (and raw materials). It's no different from carpentry, essentially. Even steel can be made without the benefits of modern, electrified technology. If a layman can read carpentry books and eventually turn a mall into a fortress, a layman can learn to work metal, with some difficulty.

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On 3/17/2016 at 6:14 PM, RobertJohnson said:

And the average joe is quite gone as we have specific profession now, such as the electrician or engineer capable of doing bombs and explosives :)

 

It's not any character who'll be able to forge, you'll need to have the trait or profession, and if not, find a mighty books about blacksmith and hope it's the one that teach you what you need (there's several new recipes, you could have a book on how to forge metal knives but not how to build a stone furnace to melt metal!)

 

Metal walls are planned yeah, like the one you see in Alexendira in TWD (in less tall version :D), fences too, metal gates are a good ideas along with the others things you suggested :)

 

If you think about other suggestion go for it, I'll try to read this thread as soon as I can to gather some cool ideas :D

 

Reinforce doors/windows is already possible with those metal barricade I tweeted, tho metal sheet to barricade require lot of blacksmith skills! Beginner items are more screws, nails, paperclip, spoon, fork, etc...

High-end blacksmith could forge bullets tho... ;) (but be carefull to gather this quite rare gunpowder!).

 

Oh also, putting petrol in the metal drums looks like a really good idea! Gonna do that tomorrow :D

Metal drum are here to act as a rain collector barrel (but a big one) and you can also do charcoal in them (with logs, it require lot of time/ressources tho), because the stone furnace need to be run on coal and not logs (to provides more heat)

How about..
Making it so metal behaves diffidently with damage.
unlike wood, metal can't shatter or slightly crack,

You can't break it by hitting it not hard enough for a long time

It has no fibers to break over time

Thus, instead of being accumulating damage,

A bunch of zombies or a very large force *such as a truck wench being attached to it and flooring it in the opposite direction* 

Would be there to bend it back to where it is enterable (or in the truck case rip it off the building)

Not just another level to upgrade barricades.

But totally impenetrable to single and low amounts of zombies.
However if a horde comes along they in unison can exert the force needed to dent and bend the metal out of place.

And unlike wood, you cant just rip metal off and replace it once it's messed up.

You have to get a powersaw and cut it off to replace it.
Which the grinding will produce A LOT of noise.

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Are you planning on adding more "improvised" weapons and tools?

I really like that fact that you can make stone axes and hammers. Being able to make slightly better variations from scrap metal if your smithing skill is low will make smithing more useful for players with less skill points in it.

 

Being able to make simple saws that can break, one - two use sledge hammers and even some homemade weapons like kitchen knife + broom handle spears, sharpened pieces of metal serving as knives / machetes / swords and maybe even simple one shot rifles would make things more interesting and it would partialy solve problems with the lack of saws / sledge hammers in multiplayer.

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I'd rather a spear than a sword. Hey RJ, can you add the ability to craft different spear heads for different jobs? A sharp, heavy head for killing zombies and a light, multi prong head for fishing?

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37 minutes ago, EnigmaGrey said:

I'd rather see the focus be on working existing metals rather than smelting items down into igots then constructin gitems from those igots, eally. Not sure how to feel about this. :D

 

Yeah. Realistically it'd be far simpler to heat stuff using the forge and hammer it into an item you can use. It's what I'd be doing.

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