Jump to content

More resilient barricading mechanic


Emton

Recommended Posts

One thing that bugs me is the way barricading works. I think they're too fast to put up and way too fast to take down. If you make barricading take longer and then unbarricading take even longer then you have the option for securing a house better, instead of any player with a hammer being able to obliterate the barricade in 5 secs. So as an example if it took 1 minute to put up 1 piece of barricade it could take 4 minutes to remove 1 piece of barricade. So like 4 minutes to barricade a window and 16 minutes to get through it. In a multiplayer environment this is interesting because now a player has to make the decision of investing time to get into a house or go somewhere else to loot. In addition, unbarricading could create more noise and cause more wear on the tool (like 25% condition for each piece of barricade, so a whole hammer just to get through a window) Well I think these options might be a good compliment or alternative to the safehouse options, giving players slightly better chance to secure a house while keeping the gameplay open.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why it adds a lot to the gameplay. You should be careful about where you invest in barricading and it should be somewhat worthwhile (instead of any player with a hammer could wipe out a dozen windows in a minute if he wanted) Right now the mechanic is "neat" but it's flimsy, I mean "barricade" should mean something...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Emton said:

Why it adds a lot to the gameplay. You should be careful about where you invest in barricading and it should be somewhat worthwhile (instead of any player with a hammer could wipe out a dozen windows in a minute if he wanted) Right now the mechanic is "neat" but it's flimsy, I mean "barricade" should mean something...

I see where you are coming from, But I feel like 4 minutes would be way to long for barricading and wouldn't be fun. It would make barricading a chore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Barricade one of the buildings with tons of windows and tell me if you still want it 4 minutes a piece. Although I can certainly see this being an option built into the game because you might want one game world to last a very very long time because some people want quick games and some people like to stay in 1 game forever.

Edited by Zomboid
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As someone who very recently took down a privacy fence.. Unbarricading doesn't take as long as you think. I grabbed my hammer slammed it behind a board and applied tremendous leveraged pressure, 3-10 seconds later, boom, board removed. if i didn't want the board salvaged then it be like 2 seconds.

 

Zomboids only apply forward pressure, so,, really just taking a board and putting two nails in it is enough to hold them, this takes like 10 seconds , especially if you partially pre-drive the nails. I am not sure about your physical fitness level but as someone who works out a lot, nailing something up and removing something is a matter of seconds. 

 

I think more along the lines it may be better to add new functionality, say for Multiplayer, instead of nailing boards in, you have an option to screw them in. Nails just come right out with opposite force, but a screw won't come out so easily. So screwing a board in and rounding off the head to keep "players" out could just mean it can't be removed unless you physically beat down the board. But then you can get into griefing problems were people screw boards in place to lock someone in. 

Edited by Slice985
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Slice985 said:

As someone who very recently took down a privacy fence.. Unbarricading doesn't take as long as you think. I grabbed my hammer slammed it behind a board and applied tremendous leveraged pressure, 3-10 seconds later, boom, board removed. if i didn't want the board salvaged then it be like 2 seconds.

 

Zomboids only apply forward pressure, so,, really just taking a board and putting two nails in it is enough to hold them, this takes like 10 seconds , especially if you partially pre-drive the nails. I am not sure about your physical fitness level but as someone who works out a lot, nailing something up and removing something is a matter of seconds. 

 

I think more along the lines it may be better to add new functionality, say for Multiplayer, instead of nailing boards in, you have an option to screw them in. Nails just come right out with opposite force, but a screw won't come out so easily. So screwing a board in and rounding off the head to keep "players" out could just mean it can't be removed unless you physically beat down the board. But then you can get into griefing problems were people screw boards in place to lock someone in. 

screwing long screws through a plank into a window frame would be hard work and would take longer than hammering nails (although it would be quieter). So it would make sense to leave barricading with nails how it is and add barricading with screws that takes longer to put up and take down.

this way if you don't want people getting in quick then you can use screws.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Trojan_Turps said:

screwing long screws through a plank into a window frame would be hard work and would take longer than hammering nails (although it would be quieter). So it would make sense to leave barricading with nails how it is and add barricading with screws that takes longer to put up and take down.

this way if you don't want people getting in quick then you can use screws.

 

 

I didn't necessarily mean screwing something in would take longer. i wouldn't do it even if I was a survivor unless I had a power drill/screwgun. Then it would only take a couple seconds that way as well. which was also why I mentioned rounding off the heads so some fool couldn't come behind you and unscrew the thing.

 

Of course, all of it is really moot. In multiplayer I have taken to lugging around a hammer, axe and sledgehammer. So that way if I find barricaded stairs I can just make my own up to a second floor, or if something is barricaded or if I get trapped, I'll just sledge a wall and run for it or sledge my way inside. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok well here's what I was getting at, simple tweaks to the barricading system that solves what are (in my opinion) two issues: Unbarricading is easier than barricading (this goes against the idea of what a barricade is) It's faster to unbarrcide 4 planks than it is to barricade them, I mean, when you unbarricade it yanks all the boards off in the same amount of time (or close to it) as putting up one. Bad immersion, cripples gameplay, because now (in multiplayer) barricading does nothing to keep out players (in my opinion it's would be more interesting if barricades were somewhat effective versus players). I see they added in options for "Safehouses" with disabled looting and tresspass, maybe as a sort of solution but then there's nothing in-between. Either you have unimmersive No tresspass, No looting. Or no real way to secure a house.

 

So my suggestion: Refine the base mechanic so that you unbarricade 1 plank at a time. Keep the vanilla time equal to barricading if that's what you want. Then add the options time to barricade and time to unbarricade (times apply to 1 plank) Then an unbarricade noise modifier (1= same noise level as barricade, 1.25, 1.5, 1.75, 2= makes unbarricading twice as loud as barricade) And finally the unbarricade tool wear modifier (1= same wear as barricade, if any. 1.25, 1.5, 1.75, 2= tool wears out twice as fast unbarricading)

 

These options let you have immersive safehouses, with sandbox gameplay, players can work to make a somewhat secure house and players can work to loot a safehouse, with both having a risk/reward factor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think a major problem is that making a 'player proof' safe house is nearly impossible, in game and in real life.

 

1 hour ago, Emton said:

Unbarricading is easier than barricading (this goes against the idea of what a barricade is) It's faster to unbarrcide 4 planks than it is to barricade them, I mean, when you unbarricade it yanks all the boards off in the same amount of time (or close to it) as putting up one. Bad immersion, cripples gameplay, because now (in multiplayer) barricading does nothing to keep out players

As for unbarricading faster barricading, I think that makes sense. When you barricade you need to hold the board up and somehow get the nail in place and hit it with only two hands. It'd get very fiddly. Meanwhile, unbarricading is just pulling the nails out.

 

I think a solution for keeping players out of bases would be traps or deterrents so they don't want to raid you in the first place.

It'd be neat if you could have a sensor on a barricade that is triggered from the destruction or removal of the barricade, it could be as simple as pointing a motion detector (which is already an in game item) at the barricade. Although most triggered weapons we have in-game are things you wouldn't want near your base due to their 'fiery' nature, could be neat to rig a shotgun to fire out the window though :grin:

 

Just imagine, Project Zomboid, Home Alone edition.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, King Kitteh said:

I think a major problem is that making a 'player proof' safe house is nearly impossible, in game and in real life.

 

As for unbarricading faster barricading, I think that makes sense. When you barricade you need to hold the board up and somehow get the nail in place and hit it with only two hands. It'd get very fiddly. Meanwhile, unbarricading is just pulling the nails out.

 

I think a solution for keeping players out of bases would be traps or deterrents so they don't want to raid you in the first place.

It'd be neat if you could have a sensor on a barricade that is triggered from the destruction or removal of the barricade, it could be as simple as pointing a motion detector (which is already an in game item) at the barricade. Although most triggered weapons we have in-game are things you wouldn't want near your base due to their 'fiery' nature, could be neat to rig a shotgun to fire out the window though :grin:

 

Just imagine, Project Zomboid, Home Alone edition.

 

Not talking about making any house player proof or making it "real life" but in real life if you barricade from the inside of a house a scavenger would not be able to simply remove your barricade from outside the house and put it in his pocket, it would take a long time of noisy destruction and the barricade would be ruined. What I am suggesting is options that allow you to simulate this. If it takes some work to bust into the house then he's gonna naturally think twice about investing the time/noise/tool/fatigue. Also since I understand this is a game for this to work stuff like sledgehammer should be off, fire for safe-houses off, the safehouse door should be locked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Emton said:

 

Not talking about making any house player proof or making it "real life" but in real life if you barricade from the inside of a house a scavenger would not be able to simply remove your barricade from outside the house and put it in his pocket, it would take a long time of noisy destruction and the barricade would be ruined. What I am suggesting is options that allow you to simulate this. If it takes some work to bust into the house then he's gonna naturally think twice about investing the time/noise/tool/fatigue. Also since I understand this is a game for this to work stuff like sledgehammer should be off, fire for safe-houses off, the safehouse door should be locked.

There was actually a thread suggesting we be able to barricade the inside of a building as well as the outside. It's very old but you can read it here.

 

This, along with your other suggestions, would indeed be a solution to a player quickly ripping of barricades, but it still leaves an issue.

If you can't use the sledgehammer at all, why have any entrances? Just live on a second floor and pull up the sheet rope.

 

The fact is, if they want to get in, they're going to get in. Making it take longer is just going to be an inconvenience, there is no danger. Not even zombies will be an issue if they are sneaky.

In fact, even my booby-trapped barricade solution won't help. People will just send a dummy character to unbarricade and take the shots.

 

 

I can think of one and only one, solution. I think it has been made before somewhere though.

Make it so that player claimed safe houses cannot be entered unless the owner(s) is/are online. It would stop people from breaking in and stealing stuff while you aren't there. But it also means you are your own defense, if someone stole stuff it is your fault for not being there to protect it. Barricades will only serve to delay, in which case having them on the inside would be a nice feature, but you need to be the one to stop other players. Barricades are for dumb zombies, not people.

 

Edit: I reread your post and I realised that I didn't address that people might "rethink" going into a heavily barricaded base. I used to play minecraft factions a lot, people would put insane walls and defense on their bases, and it wasn't an effective deterrent at all. Of course some new players wouldn't try and break in, because they lacked the resources to. But for established factions, it just made them more likely to attack. More defenses generally = more loot to protect. One of the best strategies was to literally put a destroyed dummy base above ground and then live deep underneath it. People would walk by and think it was a noob's house and leave.

 

Defending your shiz is pretty much only viable through PvP, and I think I like it better that way.

Edited by King Kitteh
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...