Jump to content
  • 0

Zombie spawning might need some work


willow512

Question

But i'm still very maddened by how zombies are currently working. I played in sandbox mode with low zombie density. After 3 days, there are about 500+ zombies within an ingame 1/4 mile radius of my base and nearby storage house. This lead to my death because this new zombie walking seems a little broken atm. Seems like they just walk at your position instead of randomly and the very few map sounds don't really lead them away anymore. I mean I miss the big group of a hoard all grouped together not really moving since no food was to be found, where you could at least use strategy and sound to lead them out of your way. Currently these 500+ zombies are spread out and there is just no possible way to kill them all, lead them away from my base, or anything else. Very maddening. I appreciate all the work you do but can you explain why I have 500+ zombies in such a cluster fook in a low zombie density setting? Would very much like to know if this is a bug in settings, AI, pathfinding, etc. 

I kinda agree with this, it seems that wherever you are zombies just begin to eventually spawn. I could be wrong but the meta game events seem spread around the player, which causes any meta game event to draw zombies into your area. 

 

If you go to the western farm, and stay there minding your own business, farming crops and building walls, then the odds of a large horde arriving should be minimal. It could have course happen. But it should be rare. Right now it seems that wherever you settle, a big horde will arrive on your doorstep in a few days.

 

The spawning is also a little off. I even had a zombie spawn inside my fence once, I was gardning with my back turned to a blind fence that surrounded a very small and uncluttered area, then suddenly a zombie appeared behind me. Even Ezio Auditore could not have repeated that feat. Great way to keep me on my toes. But not as realistic as I'd hope. If a zombie is inside my walls, I expect the barrier to be broken.

Ok so I posted this to the forum, went to bed in the northern farm, not a zombie in sight. The next morning I wake up, save, reload, brush my teeth, look out over my new porch and shat my pants.

 

I don't understand why they're there or have any idea on how to get rid of them. I've heard no gunshots or other meta game events, and even if I had, I'd figure I'd be out of earshot. Maybe 2 or three would show up but that would be it. The area was deserted, I walked around to be sure.

 

I arrived at the farm two days before the screenshot. I wanted to build a fortress here and go for a long term self sufficiency game staying away from the town and just laying low, trying to finally get some seeds to grow. The day before I chopped some wood and broke the door to the hen house because there was one of those deadheads hiding in there. I also planted some seeds and watered them.

 

I'm posting this in bugs, to hopefully raise this functionality to bug status, because I very much doubt that just planting 100 zombies in formation in the players backyard is intended. I'm sure there are better ways of doing it. If it were the first time I'd see this I'd consider it a fluke, but it isn't, this happens a lot (See quoted post). And to be honest, it ruined this game for me. I could roll with the punches and go someplace else. But I keep doing that, the game before this one the same thing happened, I wanted to try my hands at base building. But I'm pretty sure that if I go someplace else and start building in just a few days I'll find a horde parked outside in a similar fashion.

 

 

visitors.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Recommended Posts

  • 0

 

One thing that is certain though is that since they're standing in blocks, they didn't walk there. They were spawned there.

Not necessarily.  Zombies always get placed back into a standing state after a load.

The word to watch out here for is "blocks"!   ;)

 

Zombies don't join geometric formations on their own. So if they stand in a perfect square then you're absolutely certain that they've spawned there. If you look at the picture in the original post you'll see a straight line on the bottom which is the remnants of the square block they spawned in. The top of the block is distorted because zombies had spotted me.

 

I'm sure you've seen similar square blocks of zombies whilst playing the game?

 

 

 

Sorry, not seeing one row towards the bottom as conclusive evidence that they spawned there - especially considering how asymmetric the group is otherwise.  There's the top that apparently spotted you and the sides which ... just wandered?  It's got a row, but it could also just be a cluster that moved and stopped together.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

Sorry, not seeing one row towards the bottom as conclusive evidence that they spawned there - especially considering how asymmetric the group is otherwise.  There's the top that apparently spotted you and the sides which ... just wandered?  It's got a row, but it could also just be a cluster that moved and stopped together.

The screenshot in the original topic is my own screenshot, as I have explained, I took refuge in the farm, cleaned the area of some sporadic zombies. And then went to sleep and saved the game. 

When I reloaded I saw them standing there. It took me 4 or 5 seconds to recover from the shock and realize I had better take a screenshot during that time they wandered around randomly, more in the top of the block than in the bottom. My point with the screenshot wasn't to demonstrate the existence of blocks but that a large group of zombies had spawned outside my front door.

 

It's not a freak accident either, haven't you spotted blocks yourself? I've seen them all over the place. It's less now that the zombies move about randomly. But before that feature was introduced most of them seemed to be gathered in large square blocks.

 

Here... Google found me one other clear example of a block. You can see that the bottom corner of the square is attracted to the player. If the player wasn't there, this would be a perfect square. There is simply no natural way for them to end up in that shape by simply walking. They spawned there.

 

AkIs54B.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

Look at this screenshot. I was sneaking along that road, it was empty. When I turned around to retreat, I suddenly saw a big horde. It appeared out of nowhere, so I found myself completely surrounded.

 

ayxUnPP.jpg

 

Hordes appearing out of nowhere (that was horde number 4 in that region, by the way) are not cool. I am okay with occasional rare gunshots and helicopters, but horders magically appearing right behind me -- it's a little too much :)

My suggestions:

1. Limited number of zombies present on the map simultaneously.

2. Limited number of hordes present on the map simultaneously.

3. No spawning near survivors. Spawn at a remote location and migrate.

4. No big horde spawning. Let zombies migrate (following a sound of another zombies, for example) and form a horde gradually. Let players prevent hording by patrolling and wiping out zombies nearby before the noise level is too much.

Do you agree, guys?

 

Merged threads.

 

- RoboMat

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

 

As for the teleporting horde thing, we really don't have any evidence that it exists.

 

Not sure if teleporting or just spawning, but hordes sometimes appear magically where there were no zmbies a couple of seconds ago: http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/1641-zombie-spawning-might-need-some-work/page-2#entry24164

 

 

I merged your topics ... so basically you linked to the post above yours :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

My suggestions:

1. Limited number of zombies present on the map simultaneously.

2. Limited number of hordes present on the map simultaneously.

3. No spawning near survivors. Spawn at a remote location and migrate.

4. No big horde spawning. Let zombies migrate (following a sound of another zombies, for example) and form a horde gradually. Let players prevent hording by patrolling and wiping out zombies nearby before the noise level is too much.

Do you agree, guys?

absolutely something similar to this would help. The point of PZ is to let the player survive in their own way. If you can't build a base then that rules out half the game right there. I understand it's a WIP but I agree that their migrations should be based on other noises or random and if they get at the player base, they should keep moving along unless they notice the player, hear him, etc (me cowaring upstairs under the covers with my baseball bat until they leave). I haven't noticed the teleporting zombies, it always seemed to me that I would go out around day 2-3 and just have a massive horde near me that looked like it had just walked up (seemed spread out)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

You do understand that 4 defeats the purpose of the meta game?

We can't have it both ways -- we can't follow every zombie in realtime and face the performance costs while delivering smooth gameplay.

I don't think 4 is damaging the meta-game in any way.

I see it like this:

1-3 zombies appear nearby (but not where I can see them) and migrate. They start making noise, etc. If I don't wipe them -- another 3-5 zombies appear and migrate to a horde's "assembly point". Then another 5-8 zombies, then another 5-8 and so on (up to a reasonable limit). This should not be very performance decreasing.

If they're not already. :cry:

Number 3 is not there. Huge hordes silently appear just behind a player or around the base.No matter how clever and sneaky you are -- they will just appear, and this is very frustrating. I wonder if they will appear in the forest if I get myself a tent in the middle of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

I'd like to refer back to the algorithm I described in my third post. It should solve the teleporting problems and still allow for hordes. Notably hordes would arrive for reasons dictated by the meta game. So if the game for some reason decides your house gets attacked it will get attacked. It will be a design choice instead of a flaw in the meta game.

 

So it would actually become a story telling tool.

 

Look at this screenshot. I was sneaking along that road, it was empty. When I turned around to retreat, I suddenly saw a big horde. It appeared out of nowhere, so I found myself completely surrounded.

 

1. Limited number of zombies present on the map simultaneously.

2. Limited number of hordes present on the map simultaneously.

3. No spawning near survivors. Spawn at a remote location and migrate.

4. No big horde spawning. Let zombies migrate (following a sound of another zombies, for example) and form a horde gradually. Let players prevent hording by patrolling and wiping out zombies nearby before the noise level is too much.

First of I'd like to note that the horde in the screenshot is in a square block formation indicative of being spawned. (If they randomly walked there you'd see a blob but no square.)

 

1. would be a natural result which could be tweaked by a simple multiplier.

2. Hordes are just high density zombie counts. They aren't objects in themselves, but could still appear, if they appear they have a specific meta game attractor causing them.

3. Also automatically solved, zombies only spawn on tiles as they're being loaded, and if the character isn't moving "upstream/offscreen" according to the vectors, so they migrate past the player. If the player were to be hiding in a house and looking out of his upstairs window. He'd see zombies mulling past in a definite direction attracted by some meta game event.. 

Or when there are no events pulling them in you'd just get some  wanderers moving in random directions,

4. Hordes will never spawn, Instead they will converge in local meta game indicated areas.

 

If you somehow attract a horde to your safehouse, (Practicing your electric guitar again?) they'll effectively arrive from all angles (though more from the higher density areas around you) and converge on the house. It wouldn't be a blob unless you run ahead of them...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

Without getting bogged down with solutions, with regards to the issue of spawning/teleporting(whatever might be happening) does the latest picture provide sufficient evidence or would you still like some video proof of it happening?  I am happy to live with this if its just a placeholder while other parts of the game are dealt with(no point worrying about something that will be replaced/refined). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

Ok so I've just been playing.

I picked the usual spot for a hideyhole and things were going quite well (Love the new fight system, it makes me feel like rambo! Maybe a bit OP)

 

I dropped a load of items there and spent the night. The next morning all is well. So I leave for the big warehouse in the northwest corner hoping for an axe, didn't find one, but I found enough fun items to be satisfied, (Check the inventory list!). I get back home, turn the corner to walk into the garden...

 

And then this...

Deja vu all over again... A mob spawned outside my front door.

 

The square formation isn't very visible here. I think I see it but it's not that clear. However! you can see the area outside the fence is abandoned which is not what you'd expect with normal migratory zombies.

 

Also note that it's day 3... The sadistic AI manager reads along on this forum and hates my guts? I haven't even been chopping wood here, I just smashed a few zombie heads and unloaded my bags. Density was about 1 or 2 deadheads per screen. A little denser than the previous game at the farm.

 

Why don't you guys try it? Start game, gather stuff whilst moving to this area. Sleep and head for the warehouse. Then day three you go to the warehouse loot that and return. This happened to me on 3 consecutive plays now.

 

visitors2.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

I too cannot wait for the day when NPC are implemented and this crazy homing zombie ability is removed from the game.

 

I think we all (devs included, I think / hope) want a true experience where we can have those remote locations where only a few zombies exist, only venturing into the city and potentially tackling a horde, for a new axe or rare supplies. That is until a meandering horde / NPC driven/led happens to tear through our re-enforced fortress.

 

I appreciate your point that the current system, while we understand the logic of its existence is very frustrating.

One way to look at it, may be that in the interim we need to change our play style to a more nomadic lifestyle, never settling in one place too long (and hopefully avoid homing pigeon zombie hordes)

 

Unfortunately it is this way for now, I think the development to this game shows that it is not the end result they are looking for.

 

Let’s wait and see what happens when the NPCs come into play.

 

Not much else to do in this early stage of the game's development.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

That does seem to suggest a problem Willow, but it's still not what I would call hard evidence of "I turn around and there's a horde." That horde could still have legitimately been drawn there by a gunshot or helicopter. Perhaps when the map re-streamed them into (real) existence it did place them together in a blob, but that still doesn't necessarily prove that they aren't working as intended (for the time being).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

That does seem to suggest a problem Willow, but it's still not what I would call hard evidence of "I turn around and there's a horde."

 

Let's suppose people are not lying to you. I don't have a video, but here are some screenshots of hordes that magically appeared where there was little or no zombies 1-2 seconds ago. You turn away, then look back -- and here they are!

Mb7zRdq.jpg

 

A couple of secongs ago there was a group of 12-15 zombies near my warehouse door. So I lured 2 zombies away (to the middle of the parking space), killed them -- and a horde magically appeared.

 

V8pb6z3.jpg

 

Those hordes appeared out of nowhere. I was luring small groups of zombies away from the main horde and killing them. Suddenly, another horde appeared on top of the first one! It took seconds for them to appear there.

 

There is a problem with spawning. Right now there are 6 hordes near my warehouse. They keep spawning like crazy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

The problem is we're only hearing reports like this from about 3 people out of the entire community. Everyone else is saying perfectly legitimate stuff like "if I leave and come back there are zombies" or "large groups migrate into my area far too much." But there's only the smallest amount of people saying that hordes are magically appearing right beside them.

 

I'm not saying you're lying, but it does appear to be a suspiciously fringe case and there's still no hard evidence. Whenever these reports come up there's always a lot of hyperbole and a lot of frustration, and that doesn't necessarily lead to accurate bug reports. Until we can see confirmation that this is happening (it's certainly not happened in my last 50 games), or we see bug reports from say... dozens or hundreds of people like with the lighting bugs, we may remain a bit skeptical.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

 

I'm not saying you're lying, but it does appear to be a suspiciously fringe case and there's still no hard evidence.

 

So, there are 3 possibilities: people are lying, people are hallucinating, or this problem really exists. What kind of evidence do you need?

 

If we took everything on faith we would have wasted a LOT of time so far. As I said before, a mix of hyperbole, frustration, and possibly misunderstanding can mean that people are just wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. This conversation isn't helping anyone, though. So, if you have more evidence or more to add to the discussion that's fine, but taking out your frustrations by being belligerent isn't going to convince anyone that this actually happens.

 

Edit: And if this was a problem, it would be a game engine problem. It wouldn't be something that 5 people get but 10,000 people don't get (like graphics issues or compatibility issues), which is why it seems highly unusual that people like me and Enigma who've logged thousands of hours on the game have never noticed this, while one or two other people out of the entire community have.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

 As I said before, a mix of hyperbole, frustration, and possibly misunderstanding can mean that people are just wrong.

 

I am not hyperbolizing, here is what happened:

 

1. A group of 12-15 zombies was staying in front of my warehouse door.

2. I slowly approached it and attracted 3 zombies.

3. I began retreating to the center of the parking space, swinging my axe and killing the fastest zombies.

4. As soon, as I killed them, I slowly approached the same place again -- and there was a whole fresh horde standing in a square formation.

 

Another episode:

 

1. I was moving along the road, being chased by a small group of zombies. I was retreating, letting 1-2 zombies approach and killing them with my axe.

2. After I killed the last of them (that took about 10-15 seconds) I decided to loot the bodies. I started walking back and saw a large square horde of zombies which was not there 10 seconds ago.

What kind of evidence do you need? Will a video be okay?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

 

That does seem to suggest a problem Willow, but it's still not what I would call hard evidence of "I turn around and there's a horde."

 

Let's suppose people are not lying to you. I don't have a video, but here are some screenshots of hordes that magically appeared where there was little or no zombies 1-2 seconds ago. You turn awy, then look back -- and here they are!

 

 

Those hordes appeared out of nowhere. I was luring small groups of zombies away from the main horde and killing them. Suddenly, another horde appeared on top of the first one! It took seconds for them to appear there.

 

There is a problem with spawning. Right now there are 6 hordes near my warehouse. They keep spawning like crazy.

Note again and again the square block formations in the screenshots!

 

I'm not sure why you need hard evidence Rathlord. I work in software development. If a customer calls with undesirable behavior of our product we take it serious, we never ever tell them that they're imagining things. What we're seeing easily explains what the others are seeing. There's at least 4 people reporting the problem in this thread alone. The rest just notices large amounts of zombies around their safe house. Maybe they don't notice the block formations or the blocks had time to break up before they spotted them.

 

I'm not saying I'm entitled to a fix or your special attention. I'm just saying you've got some unwanted behavior in your product in the hope that you fix it, not just for my sake, but for everyones sake. This might be a small group semi amateur operation. But you're on steam dude ;) I'd pat your shoulder congratulate you and wish you strength. I realize it can be maddening. But I have the best intentions and I think the others who chimed in on the topic feel the same. I am pretty sure that all of us have the best intentions for the game, and it's community :) And zomboid really deserves it. Triple a games rarely draw me in like Zomboid does. It's really a brilliant concept.

 

I haven't seen them spawn directly behind my back, once was when I went to sleep, the other two times I had been on a looting run. But from the block formations it's clear that they've been placed by a spawning/streaming mechanism and not by the natural zombie migration behavior.

 

Are you playing the latest steam version? Why don't you try it? Load up the steam beta and play a few days,. if it's as common as I suggest you should be able to see it for yourself by day three? Do as I did, move to the fenced off house, on day two hang around that house, looting nearby houses and dragging home the spoils. Day three you go to the large warehouse try to find yourself an axe. Then when zombies move into the neigborhood. Look for the telltale block formations.

 

I'm guessing these blocks appear at certain areas only. The meta game runs on a grid, I'm expecting these zombies to appear on grid crossings, or in the dead center of those grid blocks. Every horde block appears in such an area. (Call em zombie ley lines)

 

Do you have a long term safehouse in the latest steam build Rath? Because if you do? I'd love to try my luck at that location... I really want to stop the scavenging games and move on to mid term base building and farming. Right now with this unfortunate spawning behavior that's just not possible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...