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RobertJohnson

RELEASED: Build 34.10 - Food Tracker Build

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On 3/16/2016 at 4:37 AM, Snorrsenkel said:

All hunger moodles, from "peckish" will drag your "averageCalories" value down. Just stay in balance.

This does indeed seem to be the case. After making sure to eat often enough so that I do not get the peckish moodle, my light eater character has begun gaining weight. This is pretty silly since the amount of calories (I'm assuming it's calories correlating to fullness) does not matter; just when you consume them.

 

I petition that it's not a good idea to make moodles the triggers for weight loss or gain. The moodles should serve as an indicator of the bodies desire for food, just as the sleepy moodle indicates the need to sleep, the pain moodle indicates pain, etc.

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48 minutes ago, sadpickle said:

This does indeed seem to be the case. After making sure to eat often enough so that I do not get the peckish moodle, my light eater character has begun gaining weight. This is pretty silly since the amount of calories (I'm assuming it's calories correlating to fullness) does not matter; just when you consume them.

 

I petition that it's not a good idea to make moodles the triggers for weight loss or gain. The moodles should serve as an indicator of the bodies desire for food, just as the sleepy moodle indicates the need to sleep, the pain moodle indicates pain, etc.

That's definitely not how it's supposed to work . . .

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On 3/12/2016 at 0:32 AM, akamber said:

Just wanted to point out that cooking food is bad since it raises the hunger value restored but doesn't change the caloric intake.  Also, why cabbages are ~170 calories and strawberries are 1 calorie... I don't know.  In general, best to eat raw foods, maybe seasoned if you need the moodlet?

 

Finally, the 25% decrease women get in calories needed over men seems a bit over the top, who would ever play a male character now :(

 

Even eating constantly, my weight dropped and dropped, a stew made from steak, salmon, cabbage, etc. did nothing to the point I continued to watch my weight drop on the character screen.

 

Maybe cooking should make the food count as more calories, or maybe putting some foods together should increase their nutrition somehow?

 

In fact, growing most crops takes more energy then you get back by farming them.  Is this working as designed?

 

Technically, your looking at the moodlet as a purely physical nutritional hunger. I believe it was intended to originally be both the psychological hunger and physical. But, they are planning to revamp moodlets, and will let us know in a future Mondoid when they are more fleshed out. I for one, will be happy to have a revamped system, if said system can separate physical and psychological issues, because that's something the current system doesn't quite handle. It kind of groups things up into easier, but less specific problems.

 

As for the weight loss problem? Yeah, your not alone. Part of that is calories are not easy to get in a survival situation, and another part is your burning a lot of calories just to get some calories. Our bodies are equipped with tools to store excess energy to be let out when we do starve, and also to reduce the amount of energy we have when we start the starvation process. This is rather blatant currently in Project Zomboid, take the obese trait and compare your results with the very underweight trait. You'll last roughly a month on fat reserves as obese, while your likelihood of death as very underweight is almost assured if your trying to survive off crops alone. 

 

As for farming crops, I agree in some cases its just too much work for too little benefit. I ate 3-4 harvests of tomatoes in one day and didn't gain weight. The same went for strawberries. I have not tested every single type, I was dying in my test so I had to relocate off west farm over to the river near West Point. In one day of beginner fishing I had easily gained weight. In terms of productivity, your better off fishing at this point than farming in terms of calories if your choice of crops are strawberries or tomatoes. Mind you, this is 2 months on hardcore survival settings *but without zombies* into my test. And my "catching" up on caloric intake is not necessarily suggesting that you can't survive off crops, just that it was disproportional to how much effort I was putting into farming. 

 

The 25% deal is based on the age/activity/sex of the person, which in Project Zomboid is a set age & variables. According to National Institute of Health your looking at a difference between 400-600 calories less than men per day. Out of a 2000 calorie diet, that's between 20-25-30% difference which is right in the middle, regardless of if its active or not.

 

 

*note* I thought I had already posted this, apparently I had not. I'm very glad it saved my post, but I'm actually a little surprised it did. Saved me from rewriting it; so if more information has been posted since the 12th when I wrote this, disregard any conflicts as I'm out of the loop.

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On 15. 3. 2016 at 6:59 PM, EnigmaGrey said:

Yes, between nutrition and radios, I'd suggest 1 hour days for survival from this point forwrad. :(

2 hours are better, enough time to do some things and not too much to get bored (in singleplayer)

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I made it to day 17 and got scratched. Here's my food debug. Please consider tweaking the food system to be more forgiving. I began losing weight again after the power went out. I don't see how maintaining weight is feasible when you run out of high-calorie snackfood.

 

Spoiler

averageCalories=-720.11487
caloriesMax=2500.1853
caloriesMin=-1900.8876

totalFedPercentage=12
totalStarvingPercentage=0
totalNormalHungerPercentage=88

totalExoPercentage=13
totalSleepPercentage=1
totalNormalPercentage=94

survivalTime=418.35417899888125

 

 

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14 hours ago, sadpickle said:

I made it to day 17 and got scratched. Here's my food debug. Please consider tweaking the food system to be more forgiving. I began losing weight again after the power went out. I don't see how maintaining weight is feasible when you run out of high-calorie snackfood.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

averageCalories=-720.11487
caloriesMax=2500.1853
caloriesMin=-1900.8876

totalFedPercentage=12
totalStarvingPercentage=0
totalNormalHungerPercentage=88

totalExoPercentage=13
totalSleepPercentage=1
totalNormalPercentage=94

survivalTime=418.35417899888125

 

 

If they add animal hunting mechanics, this calories problems will be "solved"

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14 hours ago, Wolfihunter_prey said:

Guys, is there any resource on how long each food is good (after how many days it goes stale, rotten) and how much refrigeration/ freezing can prolong this? Also once a food is jarred it becomes non-perishable until opened?


There's a mod called eye to food that adds that in to the game with a perk. Not sure if it works with build 34 though.

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19 hours ago, Wolfihunter_prey said:

Guys, is there any resource on how long each food is good (after how many days it goes stale, rotten) and how much refrigeration/ freezing can prolong this?

The wiki has some info on how long a perishable food will last. In-game once a perishable food loses the (Fresh) tag it's not long until it goes to rot.

19 hours ago, Wolfihunter_prey said:

Also once a food is jarred it becomes non-perishable until opened?

To the best of my knowledge, yes, it's indefinite like canned food.

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I know, this is not the right place to ask, but I have posted on the steam discussion http://steamcommunity.com/app/108600/discussions/0/619573787508114646/?l=norwegian

And (other places) and it has been almost two years, so I am going to ask :)

 

Can you, pretty please, increase or alter the jar spawn rate, so it becomes actually a useful thing even in multiplayer?

 

You would make me so happy, especially with this new - you get skinny and die - feature, where long lasting food is very important. I spent 1 week on a server with daily restarts (and resets of commercial buildings) looting the Mall daily, so far I managed to get 1 jar and 1 jar lid 9 vinegar and 12 sugar. I mean, I really want to get my vegetables into those lovely jars, but its not a viable option and kind of ruins the game experience for me (who loves farming and MP).

 

Either way, I would be very very very grateful if you did this for me, as a long lasting PZ veteran :D

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I made another attempt on longterm survival in Build 34.13. I tried to be self-sufficient as soon as possible.

Female character

Profession/traits: park ranger, hemophobic, hypochondriac, weak stomach, slow reader, sleepy head, prone to illness, runner, herbalist, lucky

Survival mode


 

Spoiler

 

Day 1-14:

Food: Salads from different vegetables and meats

Stats Day 14:

averageCalories=-2008.9811
caloriesMax=799.97577
caloriesMin=-2200.0

totalFedPercentage=2
totalStarvingPercentage=3
totalNormalHungerPercentage=96

totalExoPercentage=15
totalSleepPercentage=1
totalNormalPercentage=87

survivalTime=338.3069756779878

Weigth: something around 76kg (sorry I missed to note the weight here)

 

Day 14-31:

Electricity shut down at day 14.

Food: Salads from different vegetables and meats, various meats and fruits, 6 packages of ice-cream, 4 packages of mayonaise

I literally ate as much as I could after electricity shut down. I tried to gain some weight back to be prepared for the switch from high caloric food to self-sufficiency.

Stats Day 31:

averageCalories=2991.058
caloriesMax=3699.9783
caloriesMin=-2200.0

totalFedPercentage=7
totalStarvingPercentage=3
totalNormalHungerPercentage=90

totalExoPercentage=15
totalSleepPercentage=1
totalNormalPercentage=90

survivalTime=753.0059501838987

Weight: 85.52 kg

 

Day 32-53:

Food: The farm wasn't ready yet so I ate non-perishable food like grain, mc cheese, chips, chocolate and peanut butter

Stats Day 45:

averageCalories=-1568.5804
caloriesMax=3699.9783
caloriesMin=-2200.0

totalFedPercentage=0
totalStarvingPercentage=4
totalNormalHungerPercentage=96

totalExoPercentage=20
totalSleepPercentage=1
totalNormalPercentage=87

survivalTime=1083.3283787248074

Weight: 83.02 kg

 

Stats Day 53:

I started to eat only food gained from foraging, farming and trapping.

I usually create stirfries with 6 ingredients (at least one potatoe and one meat + various other vegetables). Cooking level 4.

averageCalories=-1946.9058
caloriesMax=3699.9783
caloriesMin=-2200.0

totalFedPercentage=8
totalStarvingPercentage=3
totalNormalHungerPercentage=89

totalExoPercentage=18
totalSleepPercentage=1
totalNormalPercentage=85

survivalTime=1278.2435663329088
starting to live of farming, trapping and foraging
Weight: 79.77 kg

 

Day 53-61: First week of self sufficiency

Stats Day 61:

averageCalories=-1830.04
caloriesMax=3699.9783
caloriesMin=-2200.0

totalFedPercentage=17
totalStarvingPercentage=2
totalNormalHungerPercentage=81

totalExoPercentage=16
totalSleepPercentage=1
totalNormalPercentage=88

survivalTime=1485.3731840408
Weight: 76.95 kg

 

Day 61-74: Second week of self sufficiency

Stats Day 74:

averageCalories=-1692.6932
caloriesMax=3699.9783
caloriesMin=-2200.0

totalFedPercentage=21
totalStarvingPercentage=5
totalNormalHungerPercentage=74

totalExoPercentage=15
totalSleepPercentage=1
totalNormalPercentage=89

survivalTime=1798.553769242746
73.16 kg

 

 

Summary:

It is easy to manage the weight with convenience food. If you have enough ice cream and mayonnaise you can even easily gain weight back. But after electricity shut down it's getting much harder to keep the weight. It is still not possible to just rely on food gained by foraging, farming and trapping and keep your weight. Although I managed to ate 4 stir fries with a hunger reduction of 100+ each day for almost 2 weeks my average calories are still too low and my weight decrease slowly but constantly. I had 2 days within those weeks when I had to wait for the next harvest and was peckish or hungry once a day. I wasn't able to forage enough to keep the hunger moodle away all the time on these 2 days. The rest of the time I was usually well fed or fed.

 

 

Edited by ChatNoir

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If nothing else, and this is not an indictment against the direction the game is going, but I hope in sandbox the calories/fat/protein/carb system is optionable. Tracking my nutrition is not fun at all sadly. I went back to Build 33.

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(clyde) I finally managed to gain weight back with self sufficiency and cooking level 6!

 

I continued my playthrough and lived off food gained by foraging, trapping and farming. In the beginning my weight dropped constantly for about 4 weeks (cooking level 4 & 5). When I reached cooking level 6 I started to get weight back with 3-4 stir fries a day + some berries.

It is still hard to keep the weight cause you are buisy with managing farms and traps and cooking almost all the time. But it seem to work at least at high cooking levels. I will not die before winter cause of weight loss :D.

 

Here are the stats:

Spoiler

Day 75-81: Third week of self sufficiency

I ate only food gained from foraging, farming and trapping.

I usually create stirfries with 6 ingredients (at least one potatoe and one meat + various other vegetables). Cooking level 5.

Stats Day 81:

averageCalories=-174.7438
caloriesMax=3699.9783
caloriesMin=-2200.0

totalFedPercentage=52
totalStarvingPercentage=0
totalNormalHungerPercentage=48

totalExoPercentage=15
totalSleepPercentage=1
totalNormalPercentage=87

survivalTime=1967.272541842627
cooking level 5 since day 2 month 19days
Weight: 73.06 kg

 

Day 81-92: Fourth week of self sufficiency

Stats Day 92:

averageCalories=-1684.2504
caloriesMax=3699.9783
caloriesMin=-2200.0

totalFedPercentage=40
totalStarvingPercentage=0
totalNormalHungerPercentage=60

totalExoPercentage=19
totalSleepPercentage=1
totalNormalPercentage=84

survivalTime=2229.776256540208

Weight: 69.65 kg

 

Day 92-97: Fifth week of self sufficiency (reached cooking level 6)

Stats Day 97:

averageCalories=-1130.3887
caloriesMax=3699.9783
caloriesMin=-2200.0

totalFedPercentage=42
totalStarvingPercentage=0
totalNormalHungerPercentage=58

totalExoPercentage=15
totalSleepPercentage=1
totalNormalPercentage=87

survivalTime=2348.94707948048
Weight: 69.14kg

 

Day 97-104: Sixth week of self sufficiency (gained weight back)

averageCalories=141.81995
caloriesMax=3699.9795
caloriesMin=-2200.0

totalFedPercentage=43
totalStarvingPercentage=0
totalNormalHungerPercentage=57

totalExoPercentage=15
totalSleepPercentage=1
totalNormalPercentage=87

survivalTime=2505.612622628745

Weight: 72.76 kg

 

 

 

Edited by ChatNoir

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We've got another thread going regarding nutrition:

 

Since this thread's gotten a bit muddled I think they're looking for just basic feelings on the overall system there more than just the open discussion we've had here. It would be really useful if the people who posted here would also post their thoughts there.

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