RELEASED: Build 34.10 - Food Tracker Build
11 11

340 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

Mmh yeah, right now an outdoor will have trouble surviving the apocalypse if he doesn't get some foods elsewhere...

Fishes only is not gonna be enough to get all your calories/lipids etc... But I should increase calories values of berries/insects to be able to survive...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@RobertJohnson bonus on well feed should last a bit longer imo, example : crossing 2 houses walking and losing the bonus is a bit too short; maybe holding this bonus per hour ? just an idea.

 

And if you can put a limit of weight gain monthly, i got 70 kgs of fat the first month of survival , isn't a bit much ? :D

 

For the proteins, maybe an other way to find meat ? like something with foraging, don't forget there is no river at Muldraugh, so only one way to get meat is trapping :/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:oops: Has Steam offered the update to build 34 yet? I have joined "iwillbackupmysave" test; but my PZ didn't update to build 34.

You have to use spiffoburgers as the beta password.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will start 4 playthroughs and report progress:

1-Woodland survival taking the calorie information into account and coming to town to get supply to boost calories

2-Nomad Survival taking the calories information into account

3-Woodland taking only hunger into account

4-Nomad taking only hunger into account

 

I will report at 1 day, 1 week, 1 month.

 

After that, I will make some suggestion to the Hunger system that could make it work

 

(Tying Fitness, Strenght, Weight, Health and Hunger all nicely together and making it more align and intuitive).

 

Again I think your base calorie burn for an 80 KG person with Fitness 5 and Strength 5 with a 500 to 2000 calorie reserve is perfect.

 

It's when you start deviating from the above that it could be tweak both for realism and improve gameplay (in my opinion).

 

As well as tweaking the caloric value of food (some up, some down).

 

But now to play this great game a bit and provide more stats...  (fedora)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

:oops: Has Steam offered the update to build 34 yet? I have joined "iwillbackupmysave" test; but my PZ didn't update to build 34.

You have to use spiffoburgers as the beta password.

 

:shock:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nomad Day 1 (taking calories into account, goal: increase weight):

averageCalories=2744.1484
caloriesMax=3940.9631
caloriesMin=0.0
 
totalFedPercentage=23
totalStarvingPercentage=0
totalNormalHungerPercentage=77
 
totalExoPercentage=17
totalSleepPercentage=0
totalNormalPercentage=99
 
survivalTime=24.012190782639664
 

 
Nomad Day 1 (taking only hunger into account - same character traits):

averageCalories=-1287.8206
caloriesMax=498.06406
caloriesMin=-2966.512
 
totalFedPercentage=10
totalStarvingPercentage=4
totalNormalHungerPercentage=86
 
totalExoPercentage=24
totalSleepPercentage=0
totalNormalPercentage=93
 
survivalTime=24.036542919900967
 

 

Woodland Survival Day 1 Taking Calories into account (goal shed weight to 80):

averageCalories=100.92514
caloriesMax=1628.6425
caloriesMin=-414.3712
 
totalFedPercentage=24
totalStarvingPercentage=19
totalNormalHungerPercentage=57
 
totalExoPercentage=10
totalSleepPercentage=0
totalNormalPercentage=100
 
survivalTime=23.960253103505238
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have just looked the item script. What does the code of "Packaged = TRUE" do ?

Would anyone share some information about this code?

I found most of the canned food (no matter opened or not) have such code, but the unopened canned soup don't have this code in its script.

 

item TinnedSoup
    {
        Weight = 0.8,
        Type = Food,
        DisplayName = Canned Soup,
        Icon = Soup,
    }
 
item TinnedBeans
{
Weight = 0.8,
Type = Food,
DisplayName = Canned Beans,
Icon = Beans,
        Carbohydrates = 33,
        Proteins = 7,
        Lipids = 1,
        Calories = 170,
        Packaged = TRUE,
}
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gonna take a look for the soup/evolved recipes but it should work I fixed some bugs on it on the last update...

Because yeah, right now you're at 19kg, so you should be dead tbh :D

 

 

Yup, below 30 in males and 25 females should be the doorstep to dying... and those guys could barely move so they would be death way earlier in PZ  :D

 

 

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198046681680/screenshot/495762843157311057

 

I tried it out for about a month in game. Trying to play an outdoor survival character isn't really doable (or enjoyable) against the current hunger clock. On my best days, I could hit -3000 calories.

 

I haven't tried to do it without hearty appetite, I'll try it again without that trait, but surely it shouldn't be that devastating?

 

Edit: Relevant skills - Foraging: 5, Fishing: 2, Cooking: 2 before I gave up fighting the calorie clock.

 

Edit Edit: Gonna try to fight the calorie clock again, I'm gonna see if Light Eater makes being an outdoor survivalist possible.

 

My guess is that a survival character will really depend on farming potatos, which will be the main calorie source. And a survivalist with hearty apetite sounds like nightmare mode to me :)

 

The other source for calories would be fruits, but we don't have them yet. 

 

On this topic, does someone knows the nutrition value of the potatos, carrots, tomatoes, cabbages.... etc, the value of the vegetables we can grow in game? I will get into testing later, but is going to take some time to see the first crops. 

 

 

For the proteins, maybe an other way to find meat ? like something with foraging, don't forget there is no river at Muldraugh, so only one way to get meat is trapping :/

 

At some point I guess there will be bigger animals than rats and birds to catch with the hunting skill. Those should serve as a protein source... and I keep telling you guys, a diet rich in insects is the future :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198046681680/screenshot/495762843157311057

 

I tried it out for about a month in game. Trying to play an outdoor survival character isn't really doable (or enjoyable) against the current hunger clock. On my best days, I could hit -3000 calories.

 

I haven't tried to do it without hearty appetite, I'll try it again without that trait, but surely it shouldn't be that devastating?

 

Edit: Relevant skills - Foraging: 5, Fishing: 2, Cooking: 2 before I gave up fighting the calorie clock.

 

Edit Edit: Gonna try to fight the calorie clock again, I'm gonna see if Light Eater makes being an outdoor survivalist possible.

 

My guess is that a survival character will really depend on farming potatos, which will be the main calorie source. And a survivalist with hearty apetite sounds like nightmare mode to me :)

 

The other source for calories would be fruits, but we don't have them yet. 

 

On this topic, does someone knows the nutrition value of the potatos, carrots, tomatoes, cabbages.... etc, the value of the vegetables we can grow in game? I will get into testing later, but is going to take some time to see the first crops. 

 

 

I honestly hadn't tried farming yet, mostly because I thought it still required finding a trowel (I like grabbing the bare minimum before heading out to my cabin, a pot, a few bottles, kitchen knife, few bowls, and a frying pan). How damaging is it to dig with your hands? I may try that. (also, perhaps the thick skin trait could be relevant here and reduce damage from this if it doesn't already?)

 

If people with high level foraging could build the most basic trap without requiring a saw + twine I think it would be more doable. It takes a lot of points to start with level 4 foraging, you should be able to forage for the basic mats to make a stick trap (and possibly snare traps). Then, we could use the worms we get occasionally as bait for birds. In the current state, it simply felt like i was right clicking non-stop on eating berries, and then right clicking about literally 50~100 times queue spamming fishing.

 

Whats funny is even though cooking makes the food remove more hunger, with the current rate of drain (which may have been my fault with assuming hearty appetite wasn't a serious drawback now), I couldn't stop to cook it. Fishing apparently causes boredom and depression, so I would have to literally fillet all my fish into about 50 fillets and make single serving, non-cooked, stir frys simply to keep depression at bay.

 

Farming might make it a bit easier, but I'm concerned more about winter. Yes, several items from foraging are still non-perishable, but I think that is still an oversight. Currently, saving those up might help get you through, along with fishing, but it still seems like its gonna be painful if you choose to live in the wild. I would really like to see how trapping could help if foraging could enable basic level trapping.

 

Also RJ, something I noticed, which may be related to this build only, do wooden spears no longer break from fishing? Not that I think its a bad thing they don't break (its already annoying to have to queue up about 50~100 fishing actions, and having a spear breaking and interrupting your queue was........bad). I was able to use the same spear for at least 15~20 days of fishing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure where to post this:

 

RJ one small error in your Nutrition class code:

 

if(this.getWeight() <= 45.0F) {
this.parent.getTraits().add("Emaciated");

 

Should be

 

if(this.getWeight() <= 55.0F) {
this.parent.getTraits().add("Emaciated");

 

Or 

if(this.getWeight() > 55.0F && this.getWeight() <= 65.0F) {
this.parent.getTraits().add("Very Underweight");
}

 

Should be

if(this.getWeight() > 45.0F && this.getWeight() <= 65.0F) {
this.parent.getTraits().add("Very Underweight");
}

 

Depending on what your intent was.

 

Other suggestions/comments:

 

I would also set starting calories at 1000 (half daily average caloric intake):

this.setCalories(1000.0F);
this.initDebugFile();

 

There is a lot of things I would also modify to be more realistic (and easier to balance and maintain).

 

Calories to gain weight and lose weight are the same for women.  3500 extra absorbed calories in surplus will translate to 0.45 KG in weight gain.

 

Keeping it gender free would make your code easier to maintain and more realistic.

 

The part that it differs is the propensity to store fat.   Women starvation mechanism will start at a higher fat percentage than women (if you want to go through the trouble of differentiating based on gender).

 

In lipid and carbs measures, 875g of carbs would represent those 3500 extra calories and 389g of lipids would represent those extra 3500 calories (that is why the body stores energy reserve as fat). 

 

CaloriestoGainWeight should be the same for male and female.

 

I will try to provide you with suggested code change either this evening or tomorrow.  

 

I have to go to the Hospital with my mother today so my time is a bit limited.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Obhal for farming (finally found location):

 

    item Potato
{
Type = Food,
DisplayName = Potato,
Icon = Potato,
Weight = 0.2,
HungerChange = -18,
DaysFresh = 14,
DaysTotallyRotten = 28,
        EvolvedRecipe       =       Soup:18;Stew:18;Pie:18;Stir fry:18;Salad:9;Roasted Vegetables:18,
        FoodType    =   Vegetables,
        Carbohydrates = 14.52,
        Proteins = 2.88,
        Lipids = 0.15,
        Calories = 70,
}
 
 
Should be:
    item Potato
{
Type = Food,
DisplayName = Potato,
Icon = Potato,
Weight = 0.2,
HungerChange = -18,
DaysFresh = 14,
DaysTotallyRotten = 28,
        EvolvedRecipe       =       Soup:18;Stew:18;Pie:18;Stir fry:18;Salad:9;Roasted Vegetables:18,
        FoodType    =   Vegetables,
        Carbohydrates = 37,
        Proteins = 4,
        Lipids = 0,
        Calories = 161,
        Fibers=4, variable would need to be defined first
}
 

 
Will be adding the full list in my suggested nutrition revamp.
 
Will also provide a replacement .txt files for those that want to try it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

here is mine. I think around 5 weeks of in game time. 

 

averageCalories=-2126.5447
caloriesMax=2381.1423
caloriesMin=-3500.0
 
totalFedPercentage=14
totalStarvingPercentage=12
totalNormalHungerPercentage=75
 
totalExoPercentage=10
totalSleepPercentage=1
totalNormalPercentage=93
 
survivalTime=732.4766410352167

 

First day:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=617883493

 

After 5 weeks:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=617883155

 

So, I made a fitness instructor, obese (he had to quit the job at the gym to join a videogame QA team) with all kind of phobias but also a ton of good stuff. 

 

I played on Bedford, and stablish myself on top of a small food market and close to many places where food was aboundant. Stockpiled all the canned food I could find (enough for three months, easy). 

 

The first three weeks or so I focused on eating the fresh and healthy stuff I found in the fridges. Even though I had caloric deficit all the time the dude felt well fed. This felt strange in game (IRL the fiber would do its magic) but ok for my getting fit objective. This nutrition plan plus the occasional zombie fight and gardening, made me lost more than 20kg in 4 weeks (however the obese trait was still there as an old tattoo <_< ). At 73kg decided to quit the diet and started picking some canned stuff. I'm stable in weight and nutritiend values now*, but no way of living just from farming, you need to take a few high caloric intakes from time to time (every two-three days). like peanut butter, chips or oats. 

 

Which is good! This way you can't grow roots and just farm: looting and managing this caloric treasures will be key. 

 

Things I'd like to see:

 

- Ability to add butter to stirfries, to boost the calories in the cooked vegetables

- A small boost in the potato calories

- losing the overweight trait (or gaining it) depending on the nutrition values of the character 

 

On a buggy note, I think there is no caloric penalty for carrying too much weight. Or i didn't notice it.

 

*Is there anyway of knowing what the normal values of Lipids, carbs and prots are? I've tried to maintain the percentages in the right levels but what is too much or too low in terms of, for example, proteins? 100? 1000? :blink:  

 

Edit: after seeing the values in the other thread, the potatoes are OK

Edited by Ohbal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks a lot to everyone, that really helps me!

Next version, I'll need to focus on:

 

  • Hunger reduction, it's maybe bit still disapear too fast, need to let the well fed stay longer...
  • No more possibility to eat food after getting well fed
  • Find a way to eat all the berries at once and not right click for each (prob gonna go for replace the item by "a bunch of berries"..)
  • Find a way to boost calories when trying to live outdoor (fishing/trapping/foraging), fishing prob gonna stay like this, but I may give more bonus to trapping/increase calories for insects
  • Maybe reduce a tad the weight gain/loss
  • Fix the weight related traits not being given/removed some times...
  • Add more food to gain calories (and add more ingredients to the current evolved recipes)
  • Fix some problems with calories (fish fillet have no calories? that'll explain some weird datas, but also I'm sure I did this code :D), evolved recipes base item nutrition aren't take in calcul (like cake dough..)
  • Bit more ideas I'll discuss with Obhal in private :D

 

BUT! Bear in mind that being very underweight and try to survive in the wilderness right at start is really not a good idea, it'll be hard (we'll see how it works when fish fillet will be fixed)

Also please, remember to discuss in the Build 34 discussion thread instead of this one, you can also MP me if you find bug/weird stuff, don't hesitate! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Maybe reduce a tad the weight gain/loss"

Yeah it's way to fast getting fat , but hell so hard and so long to lose weight !

 

second month, veggies diet (lettuce, carots and potatoes harvested from farming), i lost 15 kgs !

 

averageCalories=-2334.0312
caloriesMax=3999.9731
caloriesMin=-3500.0

totalFedPercentage=5
totalStarvingPercentage=60
totalNormalHungerPercentage=34

totalExoPercentage=29
totalSleepPercentage=1
totalNormalPercentage=81

survivalTime=1209.56730872544

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Maybe reduce a tad the weight gain/loss"

Yeah it's way to fast getting fat , but hell so hard and so long to lose weight !

 

second month, veggies diet (lettuce, carots and potatoes harvested from farming), i lost 15 kgs !

 

averageCalories=-2334.0312

caloriesMax=3999.9731

caloriesMin=-3500.0

totalFedPercentage=5

totalStarvingPercentage=60

totalNormalHungerPercentage=34

totalExoPercentage=29

totalSleepPercentage=1

totalNormalPercentage=81

survivalTime=1209.56730872544

 

Yup, I lost 20kg doing the vegan diet as well   :D

 

As it is now, the only way to not starve to death being a farmer is to eat around 20 potatoes a day  :D  :D Hunting is going to be really necessary to be self-sustainable. 

 

 

However, with a minimun looting the diet gets balanced out, let it be chips, peanut butter, canned food like oats, honey, alcohol.... there are many items that serve as a caloric boost. Once they run out... if you are still alive (many, many years in game, you are back to the sustainability point... but let's cross that bridge when we get there...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fix some problems with calories (fish fillet have no calories? that'll explain some weird datas, but also I'm sure I did this code :D), evolved recipes base item nutrition aren't take in calcul (like cake dough..)

 

When I was eating fish fillets with J having the panel open, I got no nutrients at all. No calories, carbs, lipids, or proteins, so for whatever reason filleting them is not giving any nutrition outside of hunger reduction (not sure what nutrients fish are suppose to give, guessing lipids, proteins, and calories).

 

Looking forward to fish fillets being fixed so I can give some better feedback on outdoor survival.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i imagine this being impossible to balance, also it depends on types of calories whether you put on weight. that said you can feasibly last for 60 days or more without eating before you completely starve to the point of wasting away to death. My guy is usually starving by 1 day in the previous build (havent tried this yet). Types of food will make you more/less hungry (carbs cause an insulin response which tells you you're hungry; fats are more satiating and keep you feeling fuller longer). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update 2!

 

  • Added icons for the new traits (not definitive icons!)
  • Added new traits descriptions
  • You now can't eat if you're well fed
  • Fixed weight-related trait sometimes not being updated in character info screen
  • Changed single berry in a bunch of berries
  • Added pasta & rice (they are evolved recipes, lot of food can be added in them, you need a water pot to prepare them)
  • Added several foods to evolved recipes (canned foods can now be added to recipes, etc...)
  • Fixed cutting fish filet not adding nutritional values
  • Fixed unfit/out of shape being good traits
  • Well fed moodle will stay bit longer
  • Fixed some evolved recipes incorrect numbers
  • Reduced speed of gaining/losing weight
  • Calories to gain weight is now based on your weight (the more you have weight, the more calories is needed to gain weight)
  • You know start at 800 calories (previously 500)
  • Fixed Emaciated trait having wrong value
  • Fixed nutrition values in food tooltip being displayed in green
  • Fixed nutrition value of base item (cake preparation, pie dough..) not being added in evolved recipe
  • Balanced some nutrition values

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
11 11