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RELEASED: Build 34.10 - Food Tracker Build


RobertJohnson

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Post your feedback about nutrition here :)

 

Also I'm still trying to figure out if people losing lot of weighht early is a common problem or just some who eat poor calories things only... Even if you lose weighht after a while it should be stable (expect if you really lack calories again)

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If the thread is still about the nutrition, maybe I'll post my nutritiondebug.txt from my playthroughs. Just keep in mind I didn't tried to care much about balancing nutrition, just played my usual way:

Both of the characters I played were Obese

 

The First Week - 34.8 - generally stopped playing after realized the freezers aren't working to start a new game under 34.9. Eaten evolved food made out of perishables (mostly meats) and some perishables that couldn't be added as an evolved ingredient:

 

averageCalories=-1857.5963
caloriesMax=799.9907
caloriesMin=-3500.0

totalFedPercentage=33
totalStarvingPercentage=12
totalNormalHungerPercentage=55

totalExoPercentage=7
totalSleepPercentage=0
totalNormalPercentage=96

survivalTime=144.4359324158977

 

 

Survival - 34.9 ~ 34.11 - still playing on this character - I originally eat all the corn I could without it rotting as I made a base on a farm, and after this I mostly ate chips, popcorn, tv dinners and few others.

 

averageCalories=-1420.0726
caloriesMax=799.4891
caloriesMin=-2800.0

totalFedPercentage=0
totalStarvingPercentage=89
totalNormalHungerPercentage=11

totalExoPercentage=20
totalSleepPercentage=0
totalNormalPercentage=86

survivalTime=921.136469657853

 

Edited by Faalagorn
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Another month in 34.11 (char with normal weight):

 

1. week: hungry 2 times after long looting trips, food: pizza, steak, salads with various meats and vegetables

averageCalories=-2161.09
caloriesMax=799.9744
caloriesMin=-2800.0

totalFedPercentage=5
totalStarvingPercentage=3
totalNormalHungerPercentage=93

totalExoPercentage=15
totalSleepPercentage=1
totalNormalPercentage=90

survivalTime=188.2165046914015

weight: 76.35

 

2. week: no hunger, same food as in week 1

averageCalories=-2180.295
caloriesMax=799.9744
caloriesMin=-2800.0

totalFedPercentage=5
totalStarvingPercentage=0
totalNormalHungerPercentage=94

totalExoPercentage=17
totalSleepPercentage=1
totalNormalPercentage=85

survivalTime=367.60621910516056

weight: 72.07

 

3. week: no hunger, ate a lot of stir fries made of various meats and salads of all perishable foods cause of electricity shut down at day 14

averageCalories=-1741.748
caloriesMax=1220.6498
caloriesMin=-2800.0

totalFedPercentage=8
totalStarvingPercentage=0
totalNormalHungerPercentage=92

totalExoPercentage=17
totalSleepPercentage=1
totalNormalPercentage=89

survivalTime=504.15722646345966

weight: 70.03

 

4. week: sometimes hungry, food: berries, salads from the rest of perishable foods, cereals and a lot of chips

averageCalories=-2033.9941
caloriesMax=1220.6498
caloriesMin=-2800.0

totalFedPercentage=10
totalStarvingPercentage=10
totalNormalHungerPercentage=79

totalExoPercentage=15
totalSleepPercentage=1
totalNormalPercentage=96

survivalTime=653.1609899383038

weight: sorry missed a screen shot but it was around 68

 

Sadly my char died in a horde so I couldn't test surviving on farming, foraging and trapping with keeping me well fed again.

 

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1 hour ago, RobertJohnson said:

Looks like your character is often starving, those numbers looks right to me tbh, you think that's bit too hard?

Sorry, I've been struggling quite much with food during the first month, especially as electricity cut off got me early :-x, but first farms are beginning to flourishing now, and my cooking level got up thanks to found books and the recent loot runs, so things should improve. But at least the extreme diet got me to the right weight now :) . Well, at least the data can serve as an extreme cause  (switching from The First Week to Survival is steep).

 

BTW: is the "starving" stat counting Very Hungry and possibly Hungry moodlet as well? I rarely fall down to starving moodlet, but I was indeed sitting often on "Very Hungry" for a while just because I was in the middle of doing something, especially early game.

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Yeah it count everytime you start to feel hungry...

 

Ok, I think I got something to help losing too much weight, idea was to allow player to eat even after very well fed moodle if his calories is quite low, so it'll help going back to a normal calories intake and not having to micromanage what to eat because you'll be stuck at well fed quickly...

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I'll throw in my 2 cents.

 

I'm on day 20 of survival (give or take) and I don't really understand why my character loses weight when not even hungry (no hunger moodle). The moodle showed up a few times but it never went down more than "hungry" and that was just for a few short hours tops during those 20 days. I've lost more than 10 kg now.

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Hunger is just a desire for food; it doesn't correlate to the actual nutritional value of food. For a real life comparison, eat 10 stalks of cellery: you'll be well fed, but you'll have eaten very few calories (just another reason why vegetables / fruits are encouraged during dieting).

 

This will be made clearer in the future . . .

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1 hour ago, RobertJohnson said:

Depend on what you eat, as EG said, if you only eat cabbage while doing lot of exercice (you're always running in PZ, remember that) you'll lose weight pretty fast!

 

Nothing to do with hunger, it's calories :)

That's what I mean. The game does not indicate that my character is losing weight. You can run along happily killing zombies for days 'eating cabbage' and one day you'll die because of weight loss which was not indicated by a moodle of some kind.

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Well, in that case why do we need health moodles, for example? We have health screen to check for damage, bleeding, and wounds.

 

IMO it would be a better idea to scrap that "Hunger" values completely and leave just the calories. Cap calorie intake at 3000 or 2500, make PC "very well fed" on 2000, "well fed" on 1500 or something, "fed" on 1000, etc. etc. Why overcomplicate that system with a value that represents "physical" satiation? 

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10 minutes ago, Geras said:

That's what I mean. The game does not indicate that my character is losing weight. You can run along happily killing zombies for days 'eating cabbage' and one day you'll die because of weight loss which was not indicated by a moodle of some kind.

 

It shows up on the character menu, with your age and traits, just in case you've not noticed it before. (Honestly, wasn't much reason to look at that tab unless you forgot what your traits were.)

 

Also, I've yet to really starve, I find myself dying to the horde long before I get to the point where I starve. Currently, with the build is the difficulty scaling the nutrition difficulty? I thought I might try surviving without zombies, but I don't want to post skewed results.

Edited by makkenhoff
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40 minutes ago, makkenhoff said:

 

It shows up on the character menu, with your age and traits, just in case you've not noticed it before. (Honestly, wasn't much reason to look at that tab unless you forgot what your traits were.)

I'm aware of that. What I try to convey is that you can be stuffed to the point you can not eat any more and still lose weight and that losing weight should be indicated or the "hunger" value of food scrapped leaving just the calories.

 

Also losing weight when not hungry seems just broken IMO.

Edited by Geras
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I see some discussion started about character nutritional feedbak/moodle, so guess I'll throw in my 3 cents I wanted to mention but never did.

 

I think there should be some kind of at least slight indication of what nutritional values your character needs. If you don't keep tabs on what you eat, you are totally clueless on what should you eat.

 

You can watch weight to judge whether you need extra calories or not and as proteins should have effect on how fast strength progress, I guess that would be possible, although it's real hard to keep track on, especially with it's random increments.

 

While I don't know IRL if I need more protein, lipids, carbohydrates or calories, my body usually give me some insight either way, so even without caring about a died too much, I keep a somehow-balanced died anyway (at least so I don't die :P).

 

Zomboid could give some kind of clues too - preferably via moodles (which would require adding those unfortunately), but I would settle for any other feedback too. To be honest, I still mostly care about the hunger moodle in zomboid, and from what I see I'm not alone in this thread with that, and recently weight as my character is no longer overweight  However, I'm totally clueless about lipids and carbohydrates and honestly, I don't even know what they do in-game :P.

 

Also, maybe at least those with took the nutrition perk could know more about their character's state? That would make taking the trait a more viable that it is in the current trait (I still wold love to see the expiration date too :P)

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Regarding moodles, they're in for a change soon:

 

Quote

 

Quote

Firstly: you don't "eat twice a day". If you eat a low value food you'll get the hunger moodle very soon after. If you eat berries or equivalent, then you may be looking at eating about 20 times a day (I think that now hunger is now depleted at a linear pace).

Secondly: many in this game may argue that a box of cereal, a fruit (assuming it's fresh) and a box of chips EVERY DAY is a luxury. And that's just not to starve. What happens if you're hurt with fever and need to eat 10 times more? It then becomes ridiculously more complicated to survive.

 

This is an interesting point to bring up - the reason being is that this is one of the fundamental things we're addressing with the new nutrition stuff.

Because yes, you're right - if you had a bowl of cereal, some fruit, and some chips every day you certainly wouldn't starve, but assuming that prior to the apocalypse breaking out you were a regular kind of person, eating regular amounts of food, you certainly *would* feel hungry.

By decoupling hunger (your body tells you that normally you eat around now so you *feel* hungry) from nutrition (what my body actually *needs* to be healthy), this issue is being addressed.

With the work going into the moodle system in combination with the nutrition system, we will be ramming home that what the moodles tell you is only what you *feel*, not objective facts about your body or mind. You feel hot, but in reality you're extremely cold. You feel hungry, but in reality your body has had enough nutrition. Conversely, you get no hungry moodle for days... your appetite has gone, but you may be badly in need of sustenance.

 

 

Proteins to carbs really are the only important factor for malnutrition though. Not sure there's any intention to have them cause immediate effects.

 

 

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3 hours ago, EnigmaGrey said:

Hunger is just a desire for food; it doesn't correlate to the actual nutritional value of food. For a real life comparison, eat 10 stalks of cellery: you'll be well fed, but you'll have eaten very few calories (just another reason why vegetables / fruits are encouraged during dieting).

 

This will be made clearer in the future . . .

You are right for the normal hunger but there is also a kind of hunger feedback from your body if your blood glucose level is too low. Then you start craving for sweet and high carb food which is experienced as a kind of appetite or hunger feeling. If I only eat cellery and do some excercise I will surely experience that after 24 hours on that diet and this feedback is missing in PZ.

 

Edited by ChatNoir
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14 minutes ago, ChatNoir said:

You are right for the normal hunger but there is also a kind of hunger feedback from your body if your blood glucose level is too low. Then you start craving for sweet and high carb food which is experienced as a kind of appetite or hunger feeling. If I only eat cellery and do some excercise I will surely experience that after 24hour of that diet and this feedback is missing in PZ.

 

So show the symptoms of hypoglycemia separate from the hunger moodle?

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Either there is a separate "craving for carbs and sweet food" moodle or this is shown by the normal hunger moodle. I guess for game mechanic it might be better to have it separate otherwise people get confused if a hunger moodle pops up shortly after or at the same time the well fed moodle is shown. If it is bind to the normal hunger moodle then the moodles for well fed need to be tied to calories intake as well.

 

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19 minutes ago, EnigmaGrey said:

So show the symptoms of hypoglycemia separate from the hunger moodle?

 

I can already see the people begin confuse of why the character might feel nausees and passes out after some time.

 

We definitely need more character feedback thought moodles, losing weight while starving on a span of 20 days is kinda bad and i think your body or yourself would notice that.

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For the translation ,I hope to change the display name of the item.

  • item Rice 

DisplayName    =    Rice,                                       --Raw Rice,

  • item Pasta 

DisplayName    =    Pasta,                                     --Dry Pasta,

 

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Ok, I figured since my test run was primarily about nutrition, I decided to post it here rather than in the IWBMS thread. I'm running 34.12 ; I'm putting it in spoiler tags to keep the clutter to a minimum. I'm running as Obese, Hiker, Gardening, Nutritionist, Runner, Hemophobic, Herbalist, Fast Reader and Asthma.

 

Spoiler

Day 1-15

Gathered equipment for West Farm Test. Arrived on Day 15. Immediately got to work starting farming. I did not eat frequently after a few days.

Day 22, harvested cabbages, over 100, ate a little over half of them before they spoiled on Day 28 which was also the day the power went out.

Month 1 Day 1, harvested tomatoes, I ate them all by Month 1 Day 6, due to them beginning to rot. By Month 1 Day 6 I was already at 89.73 weight. Ironically, the strawberry patches were finished on this day as well.

Month 1 Day 7, Strawberries suck, as far as survival food goes, too much work for too little nutritional gain. I had them all eaten by the next day.

Month 1 Day 10, I feel like I'm suffering malnutrition at this point pretty rough. At the start I seem to remember chopping a number of trees down without tiring, now I chop 7 and I'm exhausted.

Month 1 Day 13, Frustrated with trapping producing nothing over 43 days, I decided to call it for the moment and post up my results. My current weight is 85.74 and I'm starving, waiting for my tomato crop and strawberries to come up. 

 

I honestly thought I'd have an easier time of this going into this test. I can safely say that long term survival on farming alone without pre-game nutrition number crunching is unlikely. Without the ability to store food post electricity in a refrigerated environment you lose your produce too quickly to not number crunch your growth times. A winter would be next to impossible without resorting to prepared and/or player preserved foods. 

I'm almost positive that you *could* number crunch your way to having consistent weekly produce until winter, and survive off stockpiled canned goods during that first year, all without hitting the mall for canning supplies, but that kind of task is not fun for me personally. If I want to do complex math, I go play Kerbal Space Program. :)

 

 

Edited by makkenhoff
forgot to list my traits.
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I dunno if it's a bug, so I'd rather ask here first before posting in the tracker. Two things :

 

  • Spices don't seem to be taken into account into recipes. Tested with mayonnaise: the recipe gives the same amount of calories (or other bonuses/maluses) with or without the addition of mayonnaise.
  • Some items apparently lack their nutritional values. Seen with the nutritionist trait with Remoulade (screenshot)

609300rmoulade.png

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