Survival is pretty hardcore and unfair right now

[Blasted_Taco]

Snip from the past

 

That is exactly what i mean in most threads, people seem to forget how things were and how people complained about it.

 

One of the most popular complains is the zombie respawn, i really only have to wonder what would people say if the devs never called it "zombie respawn" but "zombies coming from the edge of the map".

 

The very early builds before the map streaming was always a clusterfuck of zombies because they didnt had a idle animation, so that meant that they would move around always, no matter if they heard a sound or not and how the "loot area" tier of zombie density started growing everywhere.

[wanderinbilly]

I've played the game for a few years and never complained that it was too easy! I was recently thinking that it was just plain "bad marketing" to tailor the game's default mode for players at the top of the curve. Gamers generally don't want to have to tweak the game downwards because the default mode is too difficult. Then I was reminded that you're *supposed* to die. I'm sorry that I don't have the link to the post (by Lemmy I think) stating the developers' goal was to design a game in which surviving even a month was a big deal, and surviving a year highly unlikely. lol

 

I find the ludicrous number of zeds (imo) balanced out by the larger amount of loot. Also, I've noted that my character becomes skilled much faster than he used to because he has to be so mobile and sneaky. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but there seem to be areas that often stay "safe" for a good while-not always, but usually. I.E. a place to act as home base while you gather supplies. Admittedly, it took me weeks to get used to a different playing style.

 

[Having said that, I've just had 100 zeds visit me at the NW farm w/ a well. Meh. I'm not sure whether I want to molotov 'em (horrible area for it) or just move out.]

[Blind_Didymus]

It seems like right now there are spots where zombies flow in naturally, spots where zombies will just appear overnight, and spots where zombies don't seem to find you at all - none of it related to the apparent isolation or population. I'm wondering if there aren't inexplicable variations in the migration patterns in the current IWBUMS 33 build.

[MadDan]

I've personally adjusted now. This is the first build since like... Build 25-26 I've survived for 19 days. And I've killed 100 zombies. Barricaded, barely any came to me, but one night they did break two windows at 4 A.M. Must have been the T.V. It was on the lowest volume though. My record is 1 month and 4 days. I'm so close to breaking that now. It's just in general, people who don't survive longer, don't like it. I've raged and said I hated the game and complained plenty of times because of dying within hours, but that's just general reaction to anything like that if you're feeling frustrated. This would clearly beg to differ on my rage... https://gyazo.com/d8beed4e2aca66455ac3d702a3389f3c

 

They weren't all fun 327 hours. But 320 of them were amazing. (Alot of those hours are from the early days of MP, something I wasn't even excited about, but shows when done right it can suck you in.) The game shines when you're surviving, everyone is going to complain about dying easily. I didn't tone down the difficulty, I didn't use sandbox, I didn't look up tutorials. I slowly crawled my way up the ladder by learning from my mistakes. Now I'm having fun again.

[migulao]

So, in short, the lesson is, play on an easier dificulty for some time, then come back to hardcore and notice that the game isn't actually unfair.

[EllEzDee]

The loot in hardcore is pretty unfair. I'm at about 12 days, and the only weapons i've found are 4 baseball bats (didn't last long), a spade, and 2 frying pans. There's more than enough food, just no weapons, tools or crafting items. There's so many empty containers, especially the bedroom ones that usually hold what i'm after (bats). Looted swathes of houses with just spoons and forks to defend myself, and every toolshed i've found has just paperclips inside.

 

Weirdly i've been hit a few times, and even grabbed by a horde once or twice, but still haven't had a bite or scratch.

 

The easier difficulties are a bit too easy, though. On "1 week later" there's so much loot in a single house that you can't even fit it in your holdall.

[migulao]

The loot in hardcore is pretty unfair. I'm at about 12 days, and the only weapons i've found are 4 baseball bats (didn't last long), a spade, and 2 frying pans. There's more than enough food, just no weapons, tools or crafting items. There's so many empty containers, especially the bedroom ones that usually hold what i'm after (bats). Looted swathes of houses with just spoons and forks to defend myself, and every toolshed i've found has just paperclips inside.

 

Weirdly i've been hit a few times, and even grabbed by a horde once or twice, but still haven't had a bite or scratch.

 

The easier difficulties are a bit too easy, though. On "1 week later" there's so much loot in a single house that you can't even fit it in your holdall.

Are you expecting to find a better weapon that a baseball bat by just searching houses? Not every person stores an axe in their house, not to mention if you're looking for particular items, you should go where those items would be. Like, say, the warehouse for axes. Also, forks are way more useful than you say. Being a stabbing weapon, you can kill a zombie in 2 hits with it, coupled with the weight, you can defend yourself from quite a few zombies with it.

Basically, you have a lot of opportunities to get good weapons, you're just not taking them.

 

Also, the baseball bat is an amazing weapon, and if you say that four don't last you very long, then you just have to be hunting for zombies for them to wear out in less than 2 weeks. Which, I must add, is a very bad thing to do on the most dificult mode.

 

If you want good loot, go to the places where the good loot is, instead of searching for it on random civilians' houses.

[EllEzDee]

 

The loot in hardcore is pretty unfair. I'm at about 12 days, and the only weapons i've found are 4 baseball bats (didn't last long), a spade, and 2 frying pans. There's more than enough food, just no weapons, tools or crafting items. There's so many empty containers, especially the bedroom ones that usually hold what i'm after (bats). Looted swathes of houses with just spoons and forks to defend myself, and every toolshed i've found has just paperclips inside.

 

Weirdly i've been hit a few times, and even grabbed by a horde once or twice, but still haven't had a bite or scratch.

 

The easier difficulties are a bit too easy, though. On "1 week later" there's so much loot in a single house that you can't even fit it in your holdall.

Are you expecting to find a better weapon that a baseball bat by just searching houses? Not every person stores an axe in their house, not to mention if you're looking for particular items, you should go where those items would be. Like, say, the warehouse for axes. Also, forks are way more useful than you say. Being a stabbing weapon, you can kill a zombie in 2 hits with it, coupled with the weight, you can defend yourself from quite a few zombies with it.

Basically, you have a lot of opportunities to get good weapons, you're just not taking them.

 

Also, the baseball bat is an amazing weapon, and if you say that four don't last you very long, then you just have to be hunting for zombies for them to wear out in less than 2 weeks. Which, I must add, is a very bad thing to do on the most dificult mode.

 

If you want good loot, go to the places where the good loot is, instead of searching for it on random civilians' houses.

 

Uhh...right, yea, the warehouse. The place that's always packed to the brim with zombies. No idea what it'd be like with the increased hordes on hardcore. In the streets alone they travel in packs of 7-8.

They don't die easily on hardcore, either. I've killed about 120. ~10 zombies a day is pretty fair.

Bedroom cupboards being regularly empty isn't though. Just about every wardrobe cupboard i come across is either empty or holds just one (usually trash) item in it, which is weird because they're normally some of the best loot containers.

 

Bonus points for being as patronising as possible, though.

[migulao]

 

 

The loot in hardcore is pretty unfair. I'm at about 12 days, and the only weapons i've found are 4 baseball bats (didn't last long), a spade, and 2 frying pans. There's more than enough food, just no weapons, tools or crafting items. There's so many empty containers, especially the bedroom ones that usually hold what i'm after (bats). Looted swathes of houses with just spoons and forks to defend myself, and every toolshed i've found has just paperclips inside.

 

Weirdly i've been hit a few times, and even grabbed by a horde once or twice, but still haven't had a bite or scratch.

 

The easier difficulties are a bit too easy, though. On "1 week later" there's so much loot in a single house that you can't even fit it in your holdall.

Are you expecting to find a better weapon that a baseball bat by just searching houses? Not every person stores an axe in their house, not to mention if you're looking for particular items, you should go where those items would be. Like, say, the warehouse for axes. Also, forks are way more useful than you say. Being a stabbing weapon, you can kill a zombie in 2 hits with it, coupled with the weight, you can defend yourself from quite a few zombies with it.

Basically, you have a lot of opportunities to get good weapons, you're just not taking them.

 

Also, the baseball bat is an amazing weapon, and if you say that four don't last you very long, then you just have to be hunting for zombies for them to wear out in less than 2 weeks. Which, I must add, is a very bad thing to do on the most dificult mode.

 

If you want good loot, go to the places where the good loot is, instead of searching for it on random civilians' houses.

 

Uhh...right, yea, the warehouse. The place that's always packed to the brim with zombies. No idea what it'd be like with the increased hordes on hardcore. In the streets alone they travel in packs of 7-8.

They don't die easily on hardcore, either. I've killed about 120. ~10 zombies a day is pretty fair.

Bedroom cupboards being regularly empty isn't though. Just about every wardrobe cupboard i come across is either empty or holds just one (usually trash) item in it, which is weird because they're normally some of the best loot containers.

 

Bonus points for being as patronising as possible, though.

If the warehouse is packed with zombies (which it normally isn't for me), then you can either:

1- Wait a few days for the zombies to go away or disperse, since that's what the helicopter and gunshot sounds are for. Zombie migration. I recommend setting up a mini safehouse near the warehouse so that you can check on it every couple of days without taking up too much of your time.

 

2- Use a distraction to lure them away yourself. This might very well endager you if you're not careful, since you're basically getting a bunch of zombies to run after you and potentially (and probably) kill you. For this, Id recommend getting in close to agro a few of them, since that way you can agro the ones you want, and take their group apart 2-3 at a time. You can use forks or knifes to separate the zombies and kill them quickly. Just don't use a gun, unless you plan on attracting every single zombie on the face of the map, the planet, the solar system, and probably the cosmos.

 

About the thing about killing zombies. 120 in 12 days is a lot more than you need, and as I said, is reason your baseball bats keep breaking, I mean, that's 30 zombies per bat. you should try sneaking around them instead, since going in to attack the zombies is a surefire way to get yourself killed and disarmed.

 

EDIT - Oh, and, sorry I came off as patronizing. My intent was simply to give you some pointers on how to make your strategy better, either by pointing out what I find were flaws, or by adding something that would help.

 

The lesson is, forks are the best zombie killers ever. Never underestimate the common fork, for one days, forks shall rule the earth.

[Bobdafilter]

This game is fairer than its ever been and I hope it stays at this difficulty on survival.

You guys have to remember that the Devs are going to add NPCs someday and that survival is practically balanced as if we already have them.

You're not supposed to break into that warehouse without some NPC friends, and you're not supposed live in one place for long durations unless you have NPCs to help you defend from those 100+ zombie hordes.

Since there aren't NPCs the only practical way to survive is as a nomad. If you don't like living as one just turn down the amount of zombies in sandbox and ignore survival until npcs are implemented.

[MadDan]

This game is fairer than its ever been and I hope it stays at this difficulty on survival.

You guys have to remember that the Devs are going to add NPCs someday and that survival is practically balanced as if we already have them.

You're not supposed to break into that warehouse without some NPC friends, and you're not supposed live in one place for long durations unless you have NPCs to help you defend from those 100+ zombie hordes.

Since there aren't NPCs the only practical way to survive is as a nomad. If you don't like living as one just turn down the amount of zombies in sandbox and ignore survival until npcs are implemented.

This is what I always say. I have no doubt the developers probably intend to make it harder when NPCs and vehicles are in. 

 

Also, the meta sounds are supposed to be against you, but, in a game like this, you use them and anything else trying to kill you as an advantage. At least I try to.

[Strats]

 

This game is fairer than its ever been and I hope it stays at this difficulty on survival.

You guys have to remember that the Devs are going to add NPCs someday and that survival is practically balanced as if we already have them.

You're not supposed to break into that warehouse without some NPC friends, and you're not supposed live in one place for long durations unless you have NPCs to help you defend from those 100+ zombie hordes.

Since there aren't NPCs the only practical way to survive is as a nomad. If you don't like living as one just turn down the amount of zombies in sandbox and ignore survival until npcs are implemented.

This is what I always say. I have no doubt the developers probably intend to make it harder when NPCs and vehicles are in. 

 

Also, the meta sounds are supposed to be against you, but, in a game like this, you use them and anything else trying to kill you as an advantage. At least I try to.

 

I can agree with that. I often find that gunshots (meta noise) will send large amounts of zombies away from an area, allowing me to loot it.

[lemmy101]

 

Snip from the past

 

That is exactly what i mean in most threads, people seem to forget how things were and how people complained about it.

 

One of the most popular complains is the zombie respawn, i really only have to wonder what would people say if the devs never called it "zombie respawn" but "zombies coming from the edge of the map".

 

This is exactly what I have always done in the past. In games there are always things worth describing with diplomatic language because huge quantities of games cheat in clever ways you would never expect, and there's never enough memory to accurately model huge worlds and everything in those accurately. At some point saying respawning explicitly became a thing. I blame RJ

[wanderinbilly]

I played a "one week in" game and I felt guilty! Lol Also, it wasn't as fun starting w/ equipment because I enjoy scrounging for stuff and that wonderful feeling when you find a bat or axe. Admittedly, watching a Youtube video by Cromulent Archer (thank you zomboid123) helped me a lot w/ surviving, uh, Survival.

[makkenhoff]

So, I was considering making a similar topic to this myself. Not to complain, but to try and reason out a few (what I see as) rather unpleasant behavior with the current zombie swarm behaviors in survival, perhaps to see if I'm alone in seeing it this way. I'm certainly not expecting any massive changes in the game by bringing this topic up, but I'd like to see other thoughts on the matters I bring up. (I admittedly have no other members in my household and immediate friends who play this game enough to understand what I'm talking about.)

 

One problem I've noticed is that some zombies are appearing to be sent directly to the player's location, not by the player's action or inaction, but because of a coded "he's at X, Y, Z go and kill".  I'm not positive this is the case, but it certainly gives me that impression. To me, that's exactly the type of AI behavior that should be avoided. The helicopter of doom made sense at least as to why the zombies are homing in on you.

 

Another problem is the zombie packs when the player is moving from one "cluster" to another; with respect to the player's position zombies appear to be placed almost directly in line with the player resulting in the feeling of artificial roadblocks being thrown up during your travels. This is most noticed when going over bridges and railroad track bridges. This is good for trying to kill the player, but does reinforce the initial feeling of AI behavior.

 

This said, I've had more fun with Project Zomboid's survival mode, regularly, than 90% of the games I own. It has only gotten better since the Desura days. Though, I wish I could figure out how to enjoy the multiplayer end of the game with my limited time.

[MrZombifiedGamer]

Okay two things. First I would agree if the game was finished, it's not. That's normally my point on posts like these and even though I agree I'm sticking with it. Balance sucks right now, not finished. Second, you can change it in sandbox if the balance still sucks after its release. 

[zomboid123]

Just some tips for people having trouble:
 

1. Knives are AWESOME. Even a kitchen knife wrecks zombies, so get good with them. You never have to stomp a knifed zombie; they are dead before they hit the ground. This video has a good example of taking down a decent sized group of zombies with a knife.
    
2. You can push up to 3 zombies at a time and you can keep quite a few at bay by doing the push-run-push dance, or if you have a baseball/nail bat or an axe you can keep push-swing-pushing.
    
3. Try to "pull" from larger hordes like you are playing an MMO. Sneak until just a fraction of the group sees you. The knife is the key here as it is silent while the swings from bats and axes will have more joining the fray sooner rather than later.
    
4. Like the song says, you need to "know when to hold 'em & know when to fold 'em". If a fight feels like it is spiraling out of your control chances are it is, so just leave the area.
    
5. You can put heavy objects outside and inside of your windows/doors for extra protection. If you have the electrical skill, extra ovens and fridges make good, sturdy barricades. Filing cabinets require no skills to move and work great as well.
    
6. Collect every rope you find as log stacks will reduce the number of days spent building by quite a bit, giving you time to do other things.

 

[Leoquent]

7. Don't hit zombies on the ground with your weapon. Stomp them to death instead (with the spacebar) for extended weapon durability.

 

 

Took me 300+ hours of playtime to realize that.  

[PlasticandRage]

I don't know if this has been said already or not, but carrying knives is a good way to stay quite if you're having problems with noise too. It's not totally silent, but the knife special kill is a lot faster and a lot quieter than beating zeds to death with a melee weapon. I should think that once NPC's are eventually added that a lot of these things will change too. And it is totally possible right now to travel between cities without vehicles. I do it all the time. Level your sprinting a couple of times first and you're good to go. You're fine doing it without leveling sprinting, but doing that first definitely helps. Both in terms of dodging zombies and in terms of just making the whole experience faster. I'm about to do it myself in search of a sledge, which doesn't seem to have spawned in the city I spawned in.

Yeah, 2 seconds of reading, and knives have definitely been mentioned. That's the solution.

Although I do agree that survival is unbalanced right now, but for totally different reasons. I think the current problem is that the power grid shuts down really quickly in survival and there isn't currently a viable solution to the problem, unless you both spend every waking minute before shutdown preparing for it, and thus ignoring a lot more important things to be preparing for early on, and totally build your character around preparing for it, which is essentially the same thing as saying there's no viable solution.

It doesnt look like anyones mentioned the viability of guns for horde management. If Im looting some place thats really congested I always carry a handgun and at least a full clip, and I never ever use it as a weapon. Run a block away from the horde youre trying to move and fire a couple of shots, then run another block in a circle around your spot, then sneak back in and you're good to go.

[uberevan]

I actually love how it's become this hardcore, but I'd never go so far as to call it unfair.  Every time that I've died was on my part, not the game's.  They simply made it easier for you to slip up and more opportunities to be killed.  If you're prepared for them then it shouldn't be an issue.

[cephalo]

7. Don't hit zombies on the ground with your weapon. Stomp them to death instead (with the spacebar) for extended weapon durability.

 

 

Took me 300+ hours of playtime to realize that.  

 

Thanks! Did not know that.

 

One thing I want to add is that loot is so important that it makes the 'lucky' skill almost obligatory. Without it, I would be coming up with almost nothing house after house except for maybe enough food to get to the next house. With it, the game was much easier.