Chemists

[ulfstein]

Hello, I've been watching this game on and off for a while. From previous versions what really got me was the Engineer and electronics that were added. This seemed pretty cool and even more so with the addition of the herbalist.   However, being a chemist and finally being able to play, I've found that I'm not really able to play out my story of surviving the apocalypse, every time i see a bleach canister i'm like oh I wish i could make something with this! Often I'm llke, "come on where are the disinfection wipes why can I just distill this wine into ethanol." or "Let me make meds."

 

So i've thought a bit and decided to make a few suggestions about adding chemistry. So here it is. I've also included suggestions for the electronics field so its a little more diverse. This may be alot, but here are four suggested chemistry related professions:

 

Professions:

Chemist: +2 chemistry +1engineering

Drug Dealer: +1 chemistry, +1 engineering, +1 Aiming +1 blunt

lab tech: +1 chemistry, +1blade&blunt maintenance, +1 first aid

 

Chemical:

basics:

alcohol = fruit/vegatable (or sugar) + yeast + container

disinfectant [Ethanol] = alcohol + kettle + tube + aluminum (or steal wool) + container + heat

glue = flour + water

vinegar = wine + ripped sheet

sugar = fruit + water + heat + frying pan

[sulfuric Acid] = battery + container + screwdriver/knife/(nail+hammer)

[Draino] = sulfuric acid + salt + heat + container

 

advanced:

[Lye] = Wood ash + water

[Acetate] = vingar + wood ash + container

[Paint thinner] = perfume + propane

bleach = [deadly gas] + [lye]

soap = [lye] + water + vegatable/butchered animal (supplies scent masking from zombies)

gunpowder = cold pack/fertilizer + [Lye] + water + sulfuric acid + frying pan + heat

[knockout gas] = [paint thinner] + bleach + alcohol + container

[deady gas] = bleech + (draino) + container (for the love of all things holy don't do this at home. A sniff will hurt your lungs for a week trust me)

 

More advanced: 

pain killer = [bark] + wiskey/disinfectant + [sulfuric acid] + [acetate]

anti-depressant= [root] + (draino) + (paint thinner)

beta-blockers = perfume + disinfectant + propane + draino + gunpowder  <--- this formula is kind of a stretch, but decent approximation.  

 

expert:

anti-biotic = electronic scraps + [sulfuric acid] + bread or fruit + [draino] + [acetate] + gun powder + sugar + heat  (Not a cure)

 

Playstyles: the chemistry fields require a hide out where they spend the early game stock piling reagents which will most likely be a house since they are lacking in the carpentry department. This requires a lot of containers, storage space (since we are dealing with heavy liquids), and a heat supply. The Drug dealer starts off being able to defend himself with making his own Molotov's before working his way to finding a gun and making his own gunpowder and explosives. (this would be great if we could modify guns into muzzle loaders). The lab tech has some basic knowledge of first aid and how to make first aid supplies being a first responder as well as knowing routine maintenance.  This makes her some durability in the beginning and as time moves on. The Chemist though closer to explosives and medical supplies than the Drug Dealer, he is not as effective in combat and needs to rely on indirect methods. Though he has the knowledge to make drugs, he has to adapt to using more rudimentry methods before production is up and running. He may think about making a cure, but he knows that its just too late to entertain that idea 

 

Other things:  In addition to the chemistry tree, I'd like to compliment the engineering tree for some more versatility such as making batteries and flashlights if they become useful.  In addition to this i would love to see addictions develop in this game..

 

electronics:

battery = electronic parts + container + [sulfuric acid]

[magnet] = battery + aluminum (or copper if added) + nail

flashlight = pencil + pipe + battery + aluminum (make these useful please)

[shake flash light] = flash light + [magnet] + aluminum (or copper if added)

light fire = battery + aluminum (or steel wool if added)

[Taser] = electrical parts + battery (stuns enemy)

[taser modification] = [taser] + weapon (stuns enemy)

[knockout/deadly gas bomb] with timer/sensor/remote = same as aerosol except with knockout gas useful against hostile npcs/pcs in safehouse defense or attacking/incapacitating zombies if they breathe without damaging structures.

 

Sorry if posting all this seems pretentious, but it's definitely something i'd love to see even if its a mod.

[Heporlathic]

glue = flour + water

 But what about bread and rolls, what are you doing in the zombie apocalypse with this sort of weak glue?

I mean I can't repair something with flour and water, right? xD

 

disinfectant [Ethanol] = alcohol + kettle + tube + aluminum (or steal wool) + container + heat

Does that stuff work in real life? So you take for example whiskey, put it in a kettle.

The kettle is closed and has a tube sticking out of it, the aluminium or steel wool is boiling in the kettle and produces disinfectant?

 

vinegar = wine + ripped sheet

Why does that create vinegar? I need some chemistry lessons

 

 

I'm with you on making alcohol from fruit + sugar + container.

lighting fire with battery is cool and logical, too.

 

But I'm really not sure if you are going for realism, because then my mind would be really blown if this stuff works!

I don't want to sound ignorant, because I really liked your suggestions, so keep it up!

 

Edit: Would be cool to actually learn something from a game, that actually works in reality

[ulfstein]

cant figure out how to quote in block properly, so i will go in reverse order.

 

vinegar is made by leaving alcohol opened to bacteria. the ripped sheet is to place a filter ontop of the wine bottle to prevent other contaminants aside from the bacteria from entering while it is open. this takes a couple weeks IRL.

 

flour and water makes a plaster glue which can be quite rigid if you mess with the ratios and add some sugar (maybe should include this, but not exactly needed) which would be good for reinforcing a bat. Not as good as wood glue, but it would work in a pinch.

 

with the disinfectant, we are going for close to pure alcohol (stores use isopropanol so people are less inclined to drink it, eventhough denatured ethanol disinfectant is not safe to drink either (it is denatured so people cant drink it, and thus is not subject to alcohol taxes) the use of isopropyl is more dumby proof). To do this, you place the wine (wiskey is already distilled, but not as distilled as what we are making) in a kettle (closest thing to a pre assembled still), then you connect a tube, and stuff the tube with steel wool.  The purpose of the steel wool is that as the ethanol and water works its way up the tube, it condenses and falls back down onto the steel wool before revaporizing and climbing again. This helps separate the water from the alcohol as the water would be falling more often than the ethanol, and the methanol wouldn't really fall at all and simply evaporates away so there is less risk of methanol poisoning. The use of the steel wools substitutes for the long length of copper looped tubing most amateur distillers need.  The copper tubing has no safe guard from methanol (makes you blind in high concentrations) and thus people when they make moonshine, they throw out the first portion. Ideally you want a thermometer so you can see when things are going through the column and when to stop.  For instance, methanol boils at around 70°C, the temperature inside the kettle will stop there until all is boiled out, then it will rise to 80°C and stop there for a while this is the ethanol.  Once the thermometer passes 80°C, you know you are only making steam, and thus should stop. I've made 97% or 194 proof alcohol in this manner.

 

The things that are not real are the things requiring propane as what you really need is propene, but i wanted to build on pre-existing items. The biggest stretch as i mentioned is the beta blockers as this requires benzene (perfume) + ethanol + a furon/ether + chlorine source (draino in this case) + isopropylamine.  Again I wanted pre-existing items to approximate, so it doesn't get a convoluted as real chemistry and the chemistry skill should in itself break the convolutedness instead of the player knowing, so I substituted the furon/ether for ethanol. Used gunpowder (a source of nitrate) and propane to make the isopropylamine (though you really need propene).

 

for the other medicines, I'm not going to say which root or which bark or what drug it actually makes, but draino (HCl) and paint thinner (acetone) works though not nearly as pure as commercial grade. these are prepared in a specific way which again i'm not going to iterate, but it works lol.  with both of these you get the effect from the root and the bark, but there are major side effects.  The bark will make you vomit and diarrea and overall dehydrate you which is horrible for the pain relieving benefit. The anti-biotic I will mention is how you make penicillin, but again its missing the procedural component that should be simply explained by chemistry skill.

 

for gunpowder, IRL all you need is nitrate from Urine or fertilzer or ammonium nitrate in cool packs + potassium from plant matter such as hay or wood ash + carbon from wood ash + a source of sulfur. You boil off the liquids and then have powder which you grind into a semi-fine powder and you are good to go. Here is a vid of someone making it with urine https://youtu.be/8wW5KR1pDxs

 

for deadly gas, if you mix bleach and hydrochloric acid you get chlorine gas which was used in world war one to dissolve soldiers lungs effectively making them drown in their own bodily fluids. I've done this in a lab myself for an experiment of mine. The knockout gas (chloroform) is made exactly as prescribed, but isn't as effective IRL as movies and games make people believe. I've hoffed chloroform with no effects, and it only works with constant supply. As soon as a person is no longer breathing it, they wake up. It is good however for dissolving bodies. I've not made it myself, but its in the lab I work at.

 

the flash light and shake flashlight are legit, you can youtube it. The magnetized nail however loses its magnetism fast, but its easily remagnetized.

 

edit: you can make propene from heating gasoline, but I think thats a little pushing it from a game stand point, so I just reflavored propane which you could also heat to lesser effect.

[Heporlathic]

 

Thank you for answering so extensively, it's a good read.

[Heporlathic]

Just a thought: If complicated recipes like "create desinfectant" were added to the game,

there would have to be a description/howto, because I don't think there are a lot of players

that are that knowledgeable in chemistry.

[ulfstein]

the current crafting system shows people how to make things, so i don't think that would be an issue. They may look through it and be like wow whats this chemistry tab? what we can make disinfectant?

 

I had more ideas for electric, but I have to study for an exam today before i can consolidate them.

[valhalla_bound]

Some of this you can do with hydrocraft already.

[ulfstein]

what is hydrocraft?

[Gaffa Tape Warrior]

what is hydrocraft?

It's a mod for project zomboid.

 

 

How about this idea for chemists? (I had to look this up on the internet)

 

[nitric acid]: cold pack/artificial fertilizer + [sulphuric acid]

Silver-lined container: container + [nitric acid] + silver + ammonia + ammonia/[lye] + sugar

 

Would that give the inside of the container a silver mirror and make it be antibacterial?

[ulfstein]

 

what is hydrocraft?

It's a mod for project zomboid.

 

 

How about this idea for chemists? (I had to look this up on the internet)

 

[nitric acid]: cold pack/artificial fertilizer + [sulphuric acid]

Silver-lined container: container + [nitric acid] + silver + ammonia + ammonia/[lye] + sugar

 

Would that give the inside of the container a silver mirror and make it be antibacterial?

 

 

 

eh, oh, ahh. I've actually performed this reaction though not to create a mirror, but to create a one way window to promote homeostasis inside of a vessel (basically amateur mars material science research).  I do not like this reaction because its very time sensitive and the smell would definitely draw the attention of zombies, if you let it sit for 30minutes without neutralizing the solution with hydrochloric acid, it becomes a vibration sensitive bomb with the vessel acting as shrapnel, so at the very least you need to add hydrochloric acid in the equation. In addition to this the cold pack would supply ammonia, so you can replace ammonia with cold packs unless ammonia is in the game. 

 

So a better recipe is:

silver lined container = container + nitric acid + silver + cold pack + lye + sugar + HCL

Though anyone can really do this reaction, I think it should be at least a lvl 3 so one doesn't accidently blow off their face.

 

Without the hcl though, this could provide the chemist with an explosive that does damage to zombies instead of the knockout gas/deadly gas which are more npc/pc deterents. So another recipe could be.

 

Grenade = container + [nitric acid] + [silver] + cold pack/ammonia + [lye]

This should be level 2

 

though not really applicible, we can swap out silver to aluminum so that the devs wouldn't have to make silver for the sole purpose of these two reactions, unless they are down with that.

 

Having the silver lining at level 3 and grenade at level 2 matches the roleplaying aspect i outlined previously where the chemist has knowledge of making medicial equipment, but is set back by having to adapt to unrefined materials, while the drug dealer has to make a stash before changing his drug making knowledge into explosive knowledge.

 

given the fact that I didn't post any actually harmful explosives in my original posts and only listed indirect damage ones when I had at least one explosive in my arsenal of previously performed experiements, its obvious to me that my pacifistic ideology of chemistry has tainted the usefulness of my proposed chemist profession.  I think i will have to go back to the drawing board to make this profession and skill tree more useful in zomboid. 

[Insidiousness]

Very good read ufstein!
I like this new class and the things you could possibly craft very much.

 

I also like the idea of accidentally blowing your face up when doing this if you have negative moodles.. Because of carelessness and what not

[uberevan]

I like all the chemistry ideas

Some of those electrician suggestions are iffy but otherwise I like it

[nickodemos]

While hydrocraft does well covering most things a chemist would do it would be nice to have a class that is specific to many of the things you can make from there. While an engineer can make things like bombs now think that maybe a chemist can take the same things but make them more powerful and use less materials in the making.

 

They can also make many of the needed components from scratch.