Cooking, Crafting, the obvious and not so obvious

[Strider]

TL:DR - In the simplest of terms I'd love to see simple things available from the start (based on your characters previous experience) and the rest should be hidden from sight until unlocked by a book or another player. It's important that obvious things be highlighted and easy to find for the character so they can be created/cooked easily.

 

The purpose of this thread is to address a lack of obviousness. I am trying to bring attention to something which irks me and may irk others too. I'm talking about the inability to do very simple things because of the restrictive nature of crafting and cooking.

 

I'm going to use two examples to try and better explain what I mean.

 

1. Campfire

2. Cooking a baked potato

 

Campfire.

Now making a campfire would certainly not be obvious to everyone. I can understand why the crafting of a campfire would be hidden until it was laid out to you in a book. That to me feels natural. If a player wanted this ability at the game start there should be something they could select to reflect their own personal knowledge.

 

If you have the materials in your inventory, a notched plank, a sturdy stick and some tinder and fuel you're set. This doesn't reflect any knowledge you'd have needed to gain in the first place to start it properly.

 

2. Potato!

 

I was recently playing a save where I tried to forage at the log cabin (Mul) on insane Z count. The idea was to find out of the Z's eventually found their way to me. I wanted an insane Z count to really imprint on myself the danger of going back into town. It had to feel like almost certain death. In that regard Indie Stone, good job!

 

Because of this I understandably had very little time in the city to collect many things but I did manage to secure a trowel and some potato seeds.

 

Foraging went well and so did the horticulture. I grew some tatties but because I didn't have a pan or bowl I couldn't cook the potato. It should've been possible to forage for a tree branch and simply cook the potato over an open fire.

 

Let me be clear. I'm not suggesting this be added as a recipe. It should be but that's not the point of my post at all. What I'm saying is, there should be a list of things which should be obvious to the player as making a cup of tea. I'd love to see baking a potato on a branch within crafting menu under cooking like Hydrocraft but unlike the campfire it should be nice and clear for the beginner (and not so beginner *cough*) players to find.

L

[Svarog]

snip

It is like that already? A lot of crafting is unavailable until you read a book, pick a profession or a trait.

But seriously, a campfire? I refuse to believe there are people on this planet that cannot compute that Sticks + Lighter = Warm fire. I refuse to believe that even people born and raised in huge cities who would otherwise die without having a Walmart close by, wouldn't know how to put up a basic campfire. Unless we're talking doing it without a lighter/matches. I can understand people making a campfire poorly as in, fire hazard over 9000 but come on...

[Strider]

But seriously, a campfire? I refuse to believe there are people on this planet that cannot compute that Sticks + Lighter = Warm fire.

 

Well a couple of points I'd like to make. Sticks + Lighter do make a campfire just not a very long one. My point being that there needs to be real fuel behind it if it's going to last, planks, logs or coal realistically. Then there is using the tinder then thicker wood to help the fire catch . Now I agree, with a lighter that's something that most people would understand pretty quickly if not know already however I was talking about using a notched plank, tinder and a stick.

 

This method requires a little more knowledge, the notched plank has to allow for the tinder to breathe. This is something I either didn't remember or learnt recently.

 

I'm not sure I consider such knowledge in today's age to be prevalent.

[Trojan_Turps]

 

snip

It is like that already? A lot of crafting is unavailable until you read a book, pick a profession or a trait.

But seriously, a campfire? I refuse to believe there are people on this planet that cannot compute that Sticks + Lighter = Warm fire. I refuse to believe that even people born and raised in huge cities who would otherwise die without having a Walmart close by, wouldn't know how to put up a basic campfire. Unless we're talking doing it without a lighter/matches. I can understand people making a campfire poorly as in, fire hazard over 9000 but come on...

 

 

I have personally watched many people try and fail to light fires even if they had all the stuff they needed. It can be rather challenging for those that have no experience to light a fire. Especially if they are trying to burn damp or Green wood. but i don't think it should be something you need to learn in a book in game.

Now lighting a fire with a stick and notched wood is a different kettle of fish...   

[ethanwdp]

 

But seriously, a campfire? I refuse to believe there are people on this planet that cannot compute that Sticks + Lighter = Warm fire.

 

Well a couple of points I'd like to make. Sticks + Lighter do make a campfire just not a very long one. My point being that there needs to be real fuel behind it if it's going to last, planks, logs or coal realistically. Then there is using the tinder then thicker wood to help the fire catch . Now I agree, with a lighter that's something that most people would understand pretty quickly if not know already however I was talking about using a notched plank, tinder and a stick.

 

This method requires a little more knowledge, the notched plank has to allow for the tinder to breathe. This is something I either didn't remember or learnt recently.

 

I'm not sure I consider such knowledge in today's age to be prevalent.

 

Shouldn't campfire quality be based on the in-game survivor skills?

And you do have to fuel the fire, with things ranging from branches (which won't do much) to clothes.

 

Anyways, most people know how to light a decent fire. Grab some dry wood, create an enclosure of some kind so you don't start a forest fire, and light it with a lighter or some matches.

I've lived in cities all of my life. I have never had to live without electricity nor running water, but I still know how to make a campfire and have done it a few times.

[Strider]

Shouldn't campfire quality be based on the in-game survivor skills?

 

That's an interesting point. If you made a poorly constructed fire it could potentially set fire to the surroundings. I'm not from Kentucky so I suppose it would take someone from around there to say.

 

If it has really hot periods then in wooded areas they'd have forest fires. I don't remember hearing about them but then I'm not dialled into American news.

[Fryhizzle]

I think quality is really the issue here.  I agree that not having a pan should not keep you from cooking a potato.  Having different levels of things would be interesting, kind of like jury rigging stuff.  Before you have the knowledge to do things correctly you can experiment with them.  I don't know how much difficulty it would add to development having so many different paths to reach the same goal.  Difficulty in programming aside, someone should be able to just throw it together and see what happens, even if it means low quality or loss of materials entirely.  

 

As far as the campfire goes, I know how to start one by 'rubbing sticks' in principal, but I've never actually done it.  Experimentation would make this game a lot more fun instead of having to know the exact way the game expects you to do things.

[Jatta Pake]

I think your post touches on a more fundamental issue. To me, PZ currently straddles a line between simulation and traditional RPG. Skills progression is traditional RPG element and a time tested mechanic. Simulation play doesn't really care about character skills - the challenge is acquiring the resources to do what you want to do. This is also time tested play.

The challenge is balance. I think some prefer balance to be tipped more towards simulation. I lean that way in the sense of building/crafting. Rather than unlock recipes at higher skill levels, I'd prefer higher skills to influence crafting/building quality or chance of success. Maybe some stuff is locked but the bulk should be open at level 0.

[Strider]

That's fine just remember my original point wasn't about camp fires per se. My real point was that some crafting options should be crammed down the players throat as those crafting options should already be known to the player. That's why I picked the potato on a stick example.

 

The camp fire example was more for comparison.