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RNG Maps


Strider

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Foreword

 

Yes, I appreciate this would be a lot of work but it struck me that I enjoyed PZ the most when I first started and how no idea where the warehouses and medical and gun stores are.

 

If some sort of algorithm could be made for the placement of buildings then you could play a new map each time you play. Additionally, if this could be done in game then you could have it so a city could cover an area much bigger than that of Mul/WP with little or no effort on the developers themselves.

 

I respect this probably beyond the reach of such a small project but in some regards, RNG is the way to go. Once you've created the tools for the maps to generate the rest of work is done by the client.

Anyway, I don't expect this to come to fruition but I do still love offering up suggestions so before you shoot it down (community) as you invariably will, remember I'm just thinking up new ideas.

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Not sure if the map data format is a public thing, however, I was considering attempting a generator back when I had time. The devs want a static map, and that makes sense. It is tempting to try RNG maps with all the work to put behind making it possible. 

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Not sure if the map data format is a public thing, however, I was considering attempting a generator back when I had time. The devs want a static map, and that makes sense. It is tempting to try RNG maps with all the work to put behind making it possible. 

 

I see.

 

What was the reasoning behind the static map choice. Do you know?

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Not sure if the map data format is a public thing, however, I was considering attempting a generator back when I had time. The devs want a static map, and that makes sense. It is tempting to try RNG maps with all the work to put behind making it possible.

I see.

What was the reasoning behind the static map choice. Do you know?

I think it has most to do with art direction. Random generation is boring to look at, its simple as that. I know that's debatable, but its far easier to make a realistic and interesting setpiece freehand than writing complex algorithms to literally MAKE ART, and not just a gameworld.

Plus, I read something about the devs enjoying the movie Goldfinger, which shortly features Muldraugh, as its actually within the Fort Knox base.

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Not sure if the map data format is a public thing, however, I was considering attempting a generator back when I had time. The devs want a static map, and that makes sense. It is tempting to try RNG maps with all the work to put behind making it possible.

I see.

What was the reasoning behind the static map choice. Do you know?

I think it has most to do with art direction. Random generation is boring to look at, its simple as that. I know that's debatable, but its far easier to make a realistic and interesting setpiece freehand than writing complex algorithms to literally MAKE ART, and not just a gameworld.

Plus, I read something about the devs enjoying the movie Goldfinger, which shortly features Muldraugh, as its actually within the Fort Knox base.

 

 

Aiiight, thanks.

 

I can understand that motivation. RNG always makes mistakes and the larger and more complex the system the more likely it is that mistakes will be made. It's true that visual mistakes can detract from the experience although knowing the maps too well can detract from the experience a little too.

That said, if you lived in that city/town then you would know the layout. That's the rationale I've always used.

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Not sure if the map data format is a public thing, however, I was considering attempting a generator back when I had time. The devs want a static map, and that makes sense. It is tempting to try RNG maps with all the work to put behind making it possible.

I see.

What was the reasoning behind the static map choice. Do you know?

I think it has most to do with art direction. Random generation is boring to look at, its simple as that. I know that's debatable, but its far easier to make a realistic and interesting setpiece freehand than writing complex algorithms to literally MAKE ART, and not just a gameworld.

Plus, I read something about the devs enjoying the movie Goldfinger, which shortly features Muldraugh, as its actually within the Fort Knox base.

 

 

I agree with the part about Randomly Generated Maps being boring. On top of that, they are a cliche in this new genre of Sandbox Survival Games. It really sucks when you generate multiple worlds because you keep getting bad ones too. If you want to see boring and dull randomly (or procedurally) generated worlds, have a look at 7 Days to Die.. In the worlds I recieved, I always spawned in a forest or a burned forest with half-broken houses sloppily scattered around. Something like this (http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Cr_LB96kcuw/maxresdefault.jpg), actually. I would hate to see something so pathetic happen to the Project Zomboid experience. I love how Muldrough and West Point are "pre-baked", for lack of a better term and not wanting to use "static". Randomly Generated Maps would create that same atmosphere-ruining feeling of "Oh I got a bad world, time to make a new save again!" that you see in so many other "survival" games. They would feel dead because, instead of being created by the careful planning and constant inspiration of a human mapper, they were created by a math problem written in code. That's just my prospective. ^u^

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When Creative Mode hits, they are working on RNG parts of the map for it, like houses and streets, check the latest mondoids :). So maybe not a RNG procedural in game map, but a pre X-Y number of tiles RNG map that you can play on, can be a thing someday.

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Not sure if the map data format is a public thing, however, I was considering attempting a generator back when I had time. The devs want a static map, and that makes sense. It is tempting to try RNG maps with all the work to put behind making it possible.

I see.

What was the reasoning behind the static map choice. Do you know?

I think it has most to do with art direction. Random generation is boring to look at, its simple as that. I know that's debatable, but its far easier to make a realistic and interesting setpiece freehand than writing complex algorithms to literally MAKE ART, and not just a gameworld.

Plus, I read something about the devs enjoying the movie Goldfinger, which shortly features Muldraugh, as its actually within the Fort Knox base.

 

 

I agree with the part about Randomly Generated Maps being boring. On top of that, they are a cliche in this new genre of Sandbox Survival Games. It really sucks when you generate multiple worlds because you keep getting bad ones too. If you want to see boring and dull randomly (or procedurally) generated worlds, have a look at 7 Days to Die.. In the worlds I recieved, I always spawned in a forest or a burned forest with half-broken houses sloppily scattered around. Something like this (http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Cr_LB96kcuw/maxresdefault.jpg), actually. I would hate to see something so pathetic happen to the Project Zomboid experience. I love how Muldrough and West Point are "pre-baked", for lack of a better term and not wanting to use "static". Randomly Generated Maps would create that same atmosphere-ruining feeling of "Oh I got a bad world, time to make a new save again!" that you see in so many other "survival" games. They would feel dead because, instead of being created by the careful planning and constant inspiration of a human mapper, they were created by a math problem written in code. That's just my prospective. ^u^

 

 

To be honest, 7 Days to die wasn't bad because of the RNG maps. It was bad because it was too easy and the devs seemed uninclined to change it.

 

I can understand that the devs/community seem reluctant to change but if done correctly I wont say that RNG maps are *completely* without value. I've seen RNG used to amazing effect in other games.

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When Creative Mode hits, they are working on RNG parts of the map for it, like houses and streets, check the latest mondoids :). So maybe not a RNG procedural in game map, but a pre X-Y number of tiles RNG map that you can play on, can be a thing someday.

 

Yeah, like I said, I've unsubscribed from everything PZ for quite some time now so I've not seen anything PZ related.

 

Good to know RNG is still on the table though.

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Not sure if the map data format is a public thing, however, I was considering attempting a generator back when I had time. The devs want a static map, and that makes sense. It is tempting to try RNG maps with all the work to put behind making it possible.

I see.

What was the reasoning behind the static map choice. Do you know?

I think it has most to do with art direction. Random generation is boring to look at, its simple as that. I know that's debatable, but its far easier to make a realistic and interesting setpiece freehand than writing complex algorithms to literally MAKE ART, and not just a gameworld.

Plus, I read something about the devs enjoying the movie Goldfinger, which shortly features Muldraugh, as its actually within the Fort Knox base.

 

 

I agree with the part about Randomly Generated Maps being boring. On top of that, they are a cliche in this new genre of Sandbox Survival Games. It really sucks when you generate multiple worlds because you keep getting bad ones too. If you want to see boring and dull randomly (or procedurally) generated worlds, have a look at 7 Days to Die.. In the worlds I recieved, I always spawned in a forest or a burned forest with half-broken houses sloppily scattered around. Something like this (http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Cr_LB96kcuw/maxresdefault.jpg), actually. I would hate to see something so pathetic happen to the Project Zomboid experience. I love how Muldrough and West Point are "pre-baked", for lack of a better term and not wanting to use "static". Randomly Generated Maps would create that same atmosphere-ruining feeling of "Oh I got a bad world, time to make a new save again!" that you see in so many other "survival" games. They would feel dead because, instead of being created by the careful planning and constant inspiration of a human mapper, they were created by a math problem written in code. That's just my prospective. ^u^

 

 

To be honest, 7 Days to die wasn't bad because of the RNG maps. It was bad because it was too easy and the devs seemed uninclined to change it.

 

I can understand that the devs/community seem reluctant to change but if done correctly I wont say that RNG maps are *completely* without value. I've seen RNG used to amazing effect in other games.

 

I disliked 7D2D for many reasons, but I don't wanna get into that here. xD

 

Sir, You Are Being Hunted has nice randomly generated maps, but then again, you can't enter ANY buildings, so there's that..

 

I guess RNG systems are a mixed bag, just like the worlds they generate.

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My opinion would be that it's quite within the scope of modders to achieve something, atleast once theres a fully-featured creative mode to use as a base. Building stuff in zomboid is pretty simple as an isometric game, and you can already get by with a large amount of random generation for terrain, foliage, roads and zombie density so i think creative mode could fill the plug for actual building generation. 

 

Still i think it may not be in demand at least short term, as there will be an explosion of map content and much of it will give you the same experience of being undiscovered without requiring random generation.

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Actually, a randomly generated map would not be fun. You would have houses in the middle of freeways, grocery stores in the middle of forests, and parking lots in backyards.

What you really want is a procedurally generated map with logical city zoning etc. Not only is that complex but it vastly complicates procedurally generated narratives which the devastated are working towards.

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Lemmy's latest on the subject:

-snip-

So it's possible that in the post-1.0 world, we may (if the game / workshop is popular enough) have enough resources at our disposal to add a randomly generated world option to the game, or perhaps to randomly generate the world outside the official map, and use user generated content to provide unique and personalized cities and towns that feel distinct to eachother. Or perhaps that'll never happen and we'll keep it to making towns / cities quickly creatable in Creative. It's too early to tell.

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