The map is too big for MP

[Svarog]

I'll be blunt, the map is WAY too big for MP. I've been looking for a good MP server for a while, honestly I feel that ALL MP servers should only allow spawning in Muldraugh/West Point or whatever map they choose while at the same time locking other areas OFF.

There just isn't enough players available to provide a good MP experience. It is perfectly possibly to play for hours and NEVER run into another player.

With the current playerbase which peaks at 800-900 a day and barely anything going on in Public MP servers (Maybe 80 Players at peak time, spread around many servers) the current thing of having Muld, West Point + Mod Maps simply FAILS.

Idk, Maybe I'm missing out on something but going into MP feels just like SP except for maybe 1-2 encounters with a player that might as well be an NPC because the average human players typically act even more predictably than average AI.

Edit: Note, I'm a VERY SP focused player, only recently have I started playing MP and I'm VERY disappointed with the results.

[EnigmaGrey]

Okay?

[Svarog]

Okay?

I forgot to add "Sorry for the rant" at the bottom.

[MisterInSayne]

Is it me, or does 'rarely encountering other survivors' seem like a very logical scenario in a zombie appocalypse?

[Svarog]

Is it me, or does 'rarely encountering other survivors' seem like a very logical scenario in a zombie appocalypse?

IRL, sure, in a video game? Idk, I expect maybe seeing some other human being each session. Adds to the thrill, the challenge and... well, the point of going into MP, when I join your average MP server it really does feel like SP but with Global Chat which might as well be random radio chatter.

Most people don't have much time to enjoy Video Games, PZ has a low playerbase, you can have fun in SP which I did for 10 months now, I expected something entirely different going into MP and got disappointed hard. Hence the rant.

Edit: Not only is the playerbase low, but even on Official servers it is being spread around between two HUGE areas. Muldraugh and West Point are big enough to support 6-8 players each, all of which might barely ever see each other. Average number of players per server that people play on is maybe 4 (Excluding the thousand servers that popped up lately), that and many servers with a solid playerbase use mod maps., spreading the players around even further.

[EnigmaGrey]

Main problem is school started up: we went from having upwards of 60 people on a night to just breaking 25 on weekends. Not a lot can be done about that.

[Teesee]

This is also probably a drawback of being on early access : smaller players pool, but hopefully this will increase over time.

[Svarog]

This is also probably a drawback of being on early access : lower players pool, but hopefully this will increase over time.

Hopefully, still, PZ will be in-dev for months if not a year. Also... there is plenty of EA games that have big playerbases, also, the longer a game is in EA the smaller the playerbase generally gets as players get burned out, running the risk of having barely any MP community by the time it goes 1.0.

Edit: I ignore the spike that releasing 1.0 will cause, because that generally doesn't last.

 

Main problem is school started up: we went from having upwards of 60 people on a night to just breaking 25 on weekends. Not a lot can be done about that.

Yes there can? I know that having a huge map looks nice on the feature list but it's not good on MP. And since you realize that it is a problem, limiting the playable area in MP could be a plus.

When big AAA games see a drop in playerbase they limit the amount of public servers/playlists running to ensure that MP experience is a different experience than SP.

In PZ's case, it should be limiting the map size, the currently available area is simply too big to properly cater to MP. Honestly Enigma, Look at SpiffoSpace Hardcore, the most people I saw on it was 6, 3 for each West and Muld, It just cannot work.

[Lumbo]

Hey there Svarogg,

 

I've been playing MP for maybe the last 6 months and had great times with many players meeting up. I remember when the sanctuary was established on the spiffospace easy mode pvp server it was a gathering point for lots of people and there were times with more than 40 people on the server. We once even managed to run a police force in Muldraugh for...a week or so...   I haven't been playing for the last 2 weeks so I don't know about the recent server attendance but it largely depends on the time of day/night I guess, most of the time servers weren't crowded until midnight (I'm from europe) if I remember correctly.

Sadly the hardcore server isn't very crowded yet and I haven't met many people there yet, too. One idea I had to make finding people easier is adding tracks, i posted that in the suggestions forum. Radios will also help you meeting up with people after build 33's release.

 

As far as the map seeming too big to you, I can understand that thought, but I'd personally wish for the map to be even bigger in the future. The feeling of being alone in the wilderness adds to the immersion in my opinion and is a big part of the game. I imagine travelling with vehicles between cities and raiders setting up roadblocks and ambushes etc.

 

Maybe it is worth a try to make area-restricted or smaller maps for now though until schools are closed again or Zomboid players finally grow older . Or even some scenario like Battle Royale . With a huge horde of zombies surrounding the city and slowly closing in towards the town center as an occasional event? Just some random idea...

[fluffe9911]

Aggressive Gaming fixed this by not allowing people to leave the valley station area so people are forced to be semi close together

[Svarog]

snip

Well... obviously the Easier PvE servers are more populated. Adding tracks to harder ones won't help much if the players are spread between two separate areas. Just walking from Muld to WP is a pain and a waste of time.

Add to that the fact that some people don't even speak English and can be considered full on basic NPCs because you can't even interact with them short of killing and looting them.

As for having an even bigger map? Yea... without Vehicles finding other players will really become impossible once Louisville get's added, maybe not right after it does since everyone will play on that but some time after when people go back to spawning on their favorite map. Seriously, Muldraugh, West Point, New Denver, Bedford and Drayton, have a server that has all of those. With an average playerbase of 4 per server imagine how hard it is for 2 players to even see one another, much less interact in any way.

PZ's MP needs some help. I'd love to have a better idea than straight up limiting the game zone but atm it does feel like it's the best one.

[EnigmaGrey]

Or, just a thought: some poeple like the option to be secluded from others and some like to gang up. You're not going to force the two groups to play together just by limiting the map size. Whose to say by doing so they won't simply leave to the other, larger, servers?

You're being really passonate about a minor problem, dude. If it were this big a deal, no one would die on any of the servers to bandits.

 

It's not very hard assuming global chat is enabled and you make use of the map. Or pick the same city and profession and hope to spawn in the same / near by area.

[Diomedes57]

I completely disagree that the map is too big for MP. All other responses became too passionate and involved.

[GreenKnight1294]

"In PZ's case, it should be limiting the map size, the currently available area is simply too big to properly cater to MP."

 

I doubt games like Minecraft or 7 Days to Die ever had issues like this with vast, randomly generated maps, even in servers with low population. On the contrary. People can just find each other in-game through the global chat or external means like Steam chat if they can't play on their own.

 

I also agree with Lumbo on wanting a larger map, I think it would add to the inmersion of the game and the feel that the world is limitless to explore.

[BetaSpectre]

Maybe players who don't want to be found shouldn't be... I like the current set up TBH. 

 

But there ought to be intense MP servers for others though I'd say make your own.

[LeoIvanov]

If I'm honest with you, I never really liked the idea of public MP servers for Zomboid, even as a concept on paper. The only public MP servers that I can stand are Roleplay ones.

 

In any other case, there are exactly two type of players that you're going to meet on these - hostile and friendly. The friendly ones will allow you to hang around with them, loot for a bit, maybe show you their base that they've built, but that's about it. Hostile ones will try and kill you on sight, those usually hang around in groups of 2+. Would it be better if these encounters multiplied? No. Is it good that there are so little encounters like these? Not really, however :

 

The thing that I always WANTED from multiplayer (and actually got it) is an ability to survive the Zomboid apocalypse with my friend. Having to deal with zombies, base building, foraging/fishing/farming for food and doing everything together. A Singleplayer Project Zomboid experience... But with a friend. This is why I advocated a while ago for skills to be restrictive to the profession/hobby that you choose at character creation. One man does 1 thing, another man works on the other, and together we are capable of withstanding zombie infection.

 

Does it get boring after a while? Sure, just like any game. Did I have a blast during the moments that we played together? Hell yes, I enjoyed the hell out of seeing my friend set house on fire to "mark" it as looted, and then having to battle with raging, spreading flame wall that nearly fucked up our base. THIS is where multiplayer shines, not on public servers, IMO.

 

 

Where do I see multiplayer heading next? I, myself, want to try a role of "The Governor", a being that controls the zombie movement, zombie numbers, meta-events, making scenarios and seeing survivors deal with it. Or, when NPC's are finally out, have both of me and my friend separate, recruit our own group of NPC's, make our own base and then raid each other "The Walking Dead" style.

[Hydromancerx]

I have played on different types of multiplayer servers. The size I don't think is an issue since people have to visit in town locations (most of the time). What I have encountered are ...

 

Anarchy Servers - An anarchy server where people are mostly hostile. Its to your advantage to make some sort of hidden base out in the woods and in this case usually the bigger the map the safer you are. (Example: Most Servers)

 

Controlled Chaos - A server, usually an RP server which as rules for players to follow and established groups and or areas to go to. You encounter lots of other people. This can be good and bad. This can be tricky on such a large map. (Example: New Dawn server)

 

Hanging with Your Buds - A buddy server is usually a small server where you and your close friends and work as a group to play. Solo play is not there since the point of this is to hang with your friends. Map size doesn't really matter in those case except for traveling to new places. (Example: NoMiS Plays server)

 

Ghost Town - A ghost town server is one that has no one one most of the time, Map size can be both good and bad, but very similar to single player. However with the difference that someone could come on and take all your stuff. Much like the anarchy servers.

[Aniketos]

PZ's MP needs some help. I'd love to have a better idea than straight up limiting the game zone but atm it does feel like it's the best one.

I too disagree with this. Maybe an option to allow server admins to more easily specify a playable region for their server - but limiting the actual default map would be a bummer. The decision to use a smaller map should rest solely in the hands of the server-operator, as it already does - even mods remaining the only way to choose a smaller map seems an acceptable compromise, and will no doubt become a smoother process with more options in time.

Also... there is plenty of EA games that have big playerbases, also, the longer a game is in EA the smaller the playerbase generally gets as players get burned out, running the risk of having barely any MP community by the time it goes 1.0.

Edit: I ignore the spike that releasing 1.0 will cause, because that generally doesn't last.

In my eyes Project Zomboid has a strong edge over the vast majority of other early access games I have played, in that the Project Zomboid engine has more depth and detail and flexibility than most games offer. Even at this early juncture it seems entirely plausible to create ridiculously disparate games with mods... I believe that when 1.0 hits, the promise of stability will see an insurgence of new creations, and the PZ ranks will swell with players who come for the release, but stick around for the large variety of experiences offered by the game and community - I should imagine we'll see a few that have nothing to do with zombies, even.

[Zorak]

Snip

Im playing 90% MP and hers my opinion

1) build 32 is "old", each build release increase MP player base by over 100%.

2) if your mentioning Spiffo server remember about time zone.

3) tbh all you need is a group of 2-3 ppl to have a nice MP experiance, all the rest is like NPC events (PM me if you want to play).

4) vehicles will fix some issues.

[EUDOXIO]

Where do I see multiplayer heading next? I, myself, want to try a role of "The Governor", a being that controls the zombie movement, zombie numbers, meta-events, making scenarios and seeing survivors deal with it... 

 

Thats kinda the gameplay you can have by playing as a server "admin"

[lemmy101]

 

This is also probably a drawback of being on early access : lower players pool, but hopefully this will increase over time.

Hopefully, still, PZ will be in-dev for months if not a year. Also... there is plenty of EA games that have big playerbases, also, the longer a game is in EA the smaller the playerbase generally gets as players get burned out, running the risk of having barely any MP community by the time it goes 1.0.

Edit: I ignore the spike that releasing 1.0 will cause, because that generally doesn't last.

 

Well its hard to know what to feel when reading this except... well sorry I guess, sucks to be us

[Zorak]

 

 

This is also probably a drawback of being on early access : lower players pool, but hopefully this will increase over time.

Hopefully, still, PZ will be in-dev for months if not a year. Also... there is plenty of EA games that have big playerbases, also, the longer a game is in EA the smaller the playerbase generally gets as players get burned out, running the risk of having barely any MP community by the time it goes 1.0.

Edit: I ignore the spike that releasing 1.0 will cause, because that generally doesn't last.

 

Well its hard to know what to feel when reading this except... well sorry I guess, sucks to be us

 

Nah , dont listen to him ! The MP is great , it have awesome RP potential. Right now it just suffers from the same things that SP does - lack of end game threats, and when you work as a group you can achieve "end game" much faster than in SP. Few more builds and features and it will be great.

[deprav]

Map is big but it's far from "Too big", I actually can't wait to see the first parts of Louisville to be released :3 If player encounters were too frequent they wouldn't be as stressful as they are now, or it would just become a deathmatch experience ; and if the map was smaller, hostile players would have a really ez time finding people's bases and do their things.
Also, keep in mind we'll have vehicles at some point ! So the huge map is no less than a necessity.

My main beef about MP is the lack of real hardcore servers and the playerbase : players tend to congregate on easy & friendly servers with frequent loot respawn so they don't need to explore the map since everything respawn around their base, making their "movement range" pretty small and secluding everyone ; they don't need to move so they don't run into each other. And it kinda kills the point of the game imo... the game should be hard and unforgiving but seems like the majority of players is more concerned about "winning" than playing what the game actually has to offer : a daym gr8 and hard survival experience, and raging fun dying a painful death.

Also I have to disagree with Leo, my best MP experiences were on public servers, encoutering players and helping them so the ended up joining me and my friends, quickly reaching 7-8 players in the group, at war with another group of players, bases with secret entrance and players taking turn to keep watch from a neighbouring house etc... Fun times ! And it was on an older versions without the nice zombie migration/behaviour we have now, it could have been so much better if it was a thing back then ^^
Sadly I have troubles finding those kind of MP experiences now, because the large majority of servers are either PVE or way too easy to survive with a little group, makes me lose interest pretty quickly.

My dream would be a real hardcore "RP-oriented" public server, with admins organizing events once in a while as a bonus, pls santa <3



 

[BoogieMan]

Seems like both sides could be satisfied with the option to restrict a map to just one of the towns, and encircle the town with a wall or water so it seems like an island. Shouldn't this be possible with the existing map editors? Someone just needs to take the time to do it and see how successful such servers are.

[Jericoshost]

If I am understanding what I have read in the mondoids when creative comes out we can make our own maps.

Does that mean size too? That would be neat, and would fix that.