Guns suppressors

[MrTrololo]

One of things what definitely might make guns more useful;,because that noise attracting uncountable amount of zeds approaching to me and lots of efforts is needed do evade,guns actually brings me more big troubles than profits and that's why i almost never use them despite i founding lots of them and ammo,so i have hope to something what help us with this

[Sykriss]

I agree, though they would have to be maintained as well as being very rare to be balanced. Possibly also having a requirement in the reloading or aiming skill to even attach it.

[Gaffa Tape Warrior]

I would probably try making one out of wood at first to try to save my ears from damage when firing the gun. I don't know how well suppressors quieten the bang, but it might be worth a try. If anyone has experience with them and wants to say how well they work then that would be good.

[Rathlord]

You can find several threads about them over the course of the last five years. Most notable would probably be this one: http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/3515-silencer-for-weapons/

[ValueOfGravity]

Suppresors don't really soften the sound as much; The thing they do supress is muzzle flash.

[Magic Mark]

Suppressors are effective in the sense that they take away the "loud blast" of the firing but for shooting to be truly quiet you would need subsonic ammunition to remove the "crack" as it flies faster than the speed of sound.

 

On their own they would be effective in making it difficult to determine where the shooter is, but unless you were in the middle of a loud area you would definitely know that shots were still being fired.

 

On top of that you would need a suppressor that fits the gun you are using, they aren't "one size fits all".

 

You would also have to accept that home-made ones would ruin in the first several shots.

 

I would be entirely fine with the idea of using pillows to muffle the sound for one (1) shot, it would ruin the range but if you needed to take one up-close shot that you needed quiet it would be acceptable in the grounds of reality.

 

As for finding a suppressor for your gun, you would be looking in specifically gun shops and you would have to find the right one for what you are using. They'd be rare as people who shoot for sport wouldn't use them, kind of a novelty thing unless you are taking gang warfare (that isn't a big thing in rural Kentucky) into consideration.

 

As with anything, there is no problem with including these in the game for the sake of variety, but they would be very limited in usage and probably require some degree of skill to use properly. They would be very rare for the sake of balance and have a limited use.

 

Realistically, it would be incorrect to say they wouldn't (would not) have them in Kentucky, since they definitely do. However they should not be usable at any level of gun skill, and would require specific knowledge, and definitely should not be an easy find, being restricted to specifically gun-stores with a low chance of being there.

 

For the sake of balance, having them exist would be plus points for the game in terms of enjoyment. But having them deemed an "available" thing that players can just go out and expect to find would be breaching the lines of "okay" and "too generous". I'd like to see it being the kind of thing where the player is looking in the back of a high-profit gun shop and being excited to find one, regardless of whether it works with their gun or not.

[uberevan]

I agree, though they would have to be maintained as well as being very rare to be balanced. Possibly also having a requirement in the reloading or aiming skill to even attach it.

To be honest, making things super rare doesn't seem to balance it out much for me, because if you're good enough to live longer than a month, searching every possible location isn't really that hard.

[MrTrololo]

Suppressors are effective in the sense that they take away the "loud blast" of the firing but for shooting to be truly quiet you would need subsonic ammunition to remove the "crack" as it flies faster than the speed of sound.

 

On their own they would be effective in making it difficult to determine where the shooter is, but unless you were in the middle of a loud area you would definitely know that shots were still being fired.

 

On top of that you would need a suppressor that fits the gun you are using, they aren't "one size fits all".

 

You would also have to accept that home-made ones would ruin in the first several shots.

 

I would be entirely fine with the idea of using pillows to muffle the sound for one (1) shot, it would ruin the range but if you needed to take one up-close shot that you needed quiet it would be acceptable in the grounds of reality.

 

As for finding a suppressor for your gun, you would be looking in specifically gun shops and you would have to find the right one for what you are using. They'd be rare as people who shoot for sport wouldn't use them, kind of a novelty thing unless you are taking gang warfare (that isn't a big thing in rural Kentucky) into consideration.

 

As with anything, there is no problem with including these in the game for the sake of variety, but they would be very limited in usage and probably require some degree of skill to use properly. They would be very rare for the sake of balance and have a limited use.

 

Realistically, it would be incorrect to say they wouldn't (would not) have them in Kentucky, since they definitely do. However they should not be usable at any level of gun skill, and would require specific knowledge, and definitely should not be an easy find, being restricted to specifically gun-stores with a low chance of being there.

 

For the sake of balance, having them exist would be plus points for the game in terms of enjoyment. But having them deemed an "available" thing that players can just go out and expect to find would be breaching the lines of "okay" and "too generous". I'd like to see it being the kind of thing where the player is looking in the back of a high-profit gun shop and being excited to find one, regardless of whether it works with their gun or not.

i even had idea for various type of ammunition here: http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/16503-weapons-and-some-military-things/

but i don't know why i didn't think earlier about subsonic ammo

[BetaSpectre]

I doubt you'd find subsonic ammo in this world, but if it made the guns more of a local issue then why not?

 

I had 700 zombies attack me after firing a pistol. It was fun and I had a great time, but I can see how others might not have.

[The Good Noob]

Since the old suggested threads are closed or dead, I encourage to keep this one alive with some answers.

 

The main one is the hipothetically rarity of the object. Well, it can be done. Then the hipothetically difficulty to know how. Well, you have a system of recipes and skill level needed. You can ask a high level of guns handling to be capable of doing these.

 

Everybody is happy, you have the chance and this doesnt makes a disbalance in the game. 

I M O

[EnigmaGrey]

Suppressors are a confirmed no, as said above.

[The Good Noob]

Suppressors are a confirmed no, as said above.

Ok, I couldnt find the specific thread. Thanks even I dont agree with that confirmed No for the reasons I said above (it would be easy to make people happy). I wont get to this idea in the future.

[BoogieMan]

Some suppressors can make a huge difference, but they are typically very expensive ones and depends a lot on the caliber. Some .22 weapons with suppressors are surprisingly quiet. You could even use a pillow for a few shots. Wouldn't be great but it would make a difference. Not in the immediate area so much, but in how far it carries, sure.

 

Shame it's a no though.. Well, there are always mods if you're missing them.

[The Good Noob]

Some suppressors can make a huge difference, but they are typically very expensive ones and depends a lot on the caliber. Some .22 weapons with suppressors are surprisingly quiet. You could even use a pillow for a few shots. Wouldn't be great but it would make a difference. Not in the immediate area so much, but in how far it carries, sure.

 

Shame it's a no though.. Well, there are always mods if you're missing them.

The problem for me is I want to play the game in MP with my friends and who knows, may be other people. Some of them dont like installing mods and I personally am not very confy with installing mods. So, the point was to get more features from the original game. 

[Gaffa Tape Warrior]

Rathlord said in another thread that gun suppressors would not be good in the game because of their rarity, inneffectiveness and durability.

"The quiet the initial noise of the weapon firing. However, much of the noise of a gun firing is actually from the sonic boom of the bullet going faster than the speed of sound. Suppressors can't do anything about this."

"Home made suppressors are first of all VASTLY less effective than ones crafted for the weapon, and second are usually ruined within 3 shots or less."

"suppressors really need to be made for the specific weapon [...] Any kinda of makeshift seal you could make would either end up shearing off or just expelling the gases at normal volume. Also, suppressors are illegal in many parts of the U.S., and are restricted to certain kinds of use. Furthermore, they just aren't that common in the first place. The place I work sells firearms and we neither stock nor can order suppressors for any of our weapons."

 

Maybe one idea is someone reading this who owns a gun could actually try making a wooden suppressor if it's not illegal where you are, perhaps wrapping it in iron to keep it from blowing apart if it would otherwise do so, and trying it out to see if it helps at all. Or you could make a cone out of some sheet metal.

I imagine the problem of the sonic boom could be avoided by taking the bullet out of the casing, tipping out some of the powder, and replacing the powder that was near the bullet with cotton wool so that the powder stays near the thing-at-the-back-that-ignites it (I don't know if that last step would be necessary), and putting the bullet back in. Maybe you can have enough propellant to pierce skulls from a reasonable distance with small bullets while still not shooting anything faster than sound? I don't know if the power would then be innadequate to make semiautomatic guns cock themselves.

If it's a gun you made your self then you can decide how much propellent to use and how heavy the bullets should be (e=mc²).

Edited October 25, 2015 by Gaffa Tape Warrior

[Rathlord]

Maybe one idea is someone reading this who owns a gun could actually try making a wooden suppressor if it's not illegal where you are, perhaps wrapping it in iron to keep it from blowing apart if it would otherwise do so, and trying it out to see if it helps at all. Or you could make a cone out of some sheet metal.

I imagine the problem of the sonic boom could be avoided by taking the bullet out of the casing, tipping out some of the powder, and replacing the powder that was near the bullet with cotton wool so that the powder stays near the thing-at-the-back-that-ignites it (I don't know if that last step would be necessary), and putting the bullet back in. Maybe you can have enough propellant to pierce skulls from a reasonable distance with small bullets while still not shooting anything faster than sound? I don't know if the power would then be innadequate to make semiautomatic guns cock themselves.

If it's a gun you made your self then you can decide how much propellent to use and how heavy the bullets should be (e=mc²).

 

This exactly proves my point about people having no idea how suppressors work, and quite nicely at that. Suppressors aren't just "things attached to the end of a gun." Neither a cone of metal nor a wooden... something? would suppress the sound in any way. Suppressors work by giving the gas (and sound) many small, internal surfaces in which to expand. This controls how quickly the gas expands, cools, and dissipates, which then controls how much sound it produces when it eventually leaves the enclosed chamber. Something open, like a wooden something or a metal cone would do nothing whatsoever. Like I said, this is a perfect illustration of how people who have no idea how a suppressor works would never figure out how to make one themselves. You have to have some kind of understanding of the concept before you can make something.

 

Every time one of these threads comes along it just proves my point more and more.

 

And I've already statistically proven that in Kentucky, approximately one in 5,000 people would own a suppressor (and that's on the very, VERY generous side assuming they're all in the hands of different individuals, not sitting with collectors, in warehouses, with vendors, etc). That puts you at a statistically zero chance of finding one in the area within which the game takes place- totaling a population of approximately 2,500.

 

(And keep in mind, even if you do beat the odds and find one single suppressor in Muldraugh, Kentucky keep in mind there are literally tens of thousands of firearms out there and each gun requires a suppressor that can fit that specific model. So you have to compound the astronomically low odds with another astronomically low odd- that you just happen to have the gun which the suppressor you found goes with.)

 

It's a bad idea that movies and video games have drummed into people's heads. PZ is trying to stay away from that kind of stuff. Luckily, there is modding.

[BetaSpectre]

The idea that someone could make a suppressor isn't outlandish, but its definitely not going to do much, covering muzzle flash, and lowering noise IMO should be possible, but not substantial.

 

Guns attracting the amount of zombies that they do is far fetched. Though even if there was 1 suppressor in every 10,000 zombies that would justify adding them into the game because with a single gun you can attract that many zombies then kill them, making suppressors present in the game based on the calculation that per person something that ought to be there.

 

I think the game should change how far zombies react to guns, especially when fired from indoors where the distance of zombies who hear and who react should get lowered. IMO gunshots should attract zombies at like 10 times the distance of banging on a door with a sledgehammer. Instead of bringing them from one end of the town to the next. 

 

Now if banging on doors or breaking glass, or even tripping house alarms attracted the entire population of the town I'd be cool with that for the sake of consistency. Right now even bombs have less noise than guns. It'd be cool if it were just swapped around where bombs attract everyone, where guns just attract everyone on your screen.

[Rathlord]

Maybe one idea is someone reading this who owns a gun could actually try making a wooden suppressor if it's not illegal where you are, perhaps wrapping it in iron to keep it from blowing apart if it would otherwise do so, and trying it out to see if it helps at all. Or you could make a cone out of some sheet metal.

 

And for the record, please no one do this. This is incredibly dangerous and get someone killed. And Gaffa, I'm sure your intent was not to hurt anyone, but please don't recommend people modifying their firearms if you don't know what you're talking about. I don't mean to be harsh on you, but if someone who didn't really know what they were doing tried this, they could actually die. If you caught the compressed gasses wrong in something made of wood it would blow apart- and wrapping it in iron would only make it more dangerous. Guns aren't toys, and you should not be asking people to do something like this.

[BetaSpectre]

Removing powder from bullets is also a bad idea, you're more likely to just get a round stuck forever in the barrel. Especially since most people wouldn't know how to change how much powder you'd need to make rounds subsonic. I also imagine the cotton would be horrible for the gun's accuracy.

[Rathlord]

Guns attracting the amount of zombies that they do is far fetched.

 

Now if banging on doors or breaking glass, or even tripping house alarms attracted the entire population of the town I'd be cool with that for the sake of consistency. Right now even bombs have less noise than guns. It'd be cool if it were just swapped around where bombs attract everyone, where guns just attract everyone on your screen.

 

No. It's not far fetched. Gunshots can be heard for miles. Muldraugh is 384 acres. I used to hunt on a property at roughly 315 acres. I could hear the gunshot from the other person I hunted with on the opposite end of the property- easily- any day, and it was a hilly and forested area. I'm not sure you understand how loud a sonic boom is. It's not even roughly comparable to breaking glass, banging on doors, or even house alarms.

 

Keeping in mind that the decibel system is logarithmic, not linear, shotguns can come out as high as 160 decibels, which is rapidly approaching the loudest possible sound (194 decibels) in earth atmosphere. It can be heard from miles away and is a very reasonable feature of the game. In reality, suppressed firearms can still be heard from up to a mile away, which would still cover the majority of Muldraugh.

 

Unfortunately there's a lot of misinformation propagated mostly by people making comments on the internet without actually knowing about it in reality. Please don't present things as fact unless you know they are, it doesn't help the game and it's misleading to others who might read it.

 

Some of the other sounds probably could use a bit of pass to make sure they line up right, though, I agree with you there. The gunshot is just fine, however, and is 100% working as intended.

[Rathlord]

Removing powder from bullets is also a bad idea, you're more likely to just get a round stuck forever in the barrel. Especially since most people wouldn't know how to change how much powder you'd need to make rounds subsonic. I also imagine the cotton would be horrible for the gun's accuracy.

 

It's not terribly dangerous (relatively), but it is just going to not work and get you killed that way. For one thing, I'm not sure why people think you can just magically take apart and put back together bullets. It takes special tools and knowing what you're doing. And for another, powder is measured very specifically- to the grain- and fucking it up is going to get a bullet that doesn't spin correctly, tumbles, has very little power, jams the gun, etc.

 

There is subsonic ammo available for some caliber bullets, but for most it's quite rare and more of a specialty item.

[The Good Noob]

 

Removing powder from bullets is also a bad idea, you're more likely to just get a round stuck forever in the barrel. Especially since most people wouldn't know how to change how much powder you'd need to make rounds subsonic. I also imagine the cotton would be horrible for the gun's accuracy.

 

It's not terribly dangerous (relatively), but it is just going to not work and get you killed that way. For one thing, I'm not sure why people think you can just magically take apart and put back together bullets. It takes special tools and knowing what you're doing. And for another, powder is measured very specifically- to the grain- and fucking it up is going to get a bullet that doesn't spin correctly, tumbles, has very little power, jams the gun, etc.

 

There is subsonic ammo available for some caliber bullets, but for most it's quite rare and more of a specialty item.

 

Only for the debate (I know that there will NOT be suppresors). The argument of rarity is because probably the good pacific people of Muldraugh, Kentucky, don't need silencers nowadays. But, if comes a time when they need them, they will build them. It is unlikely that these same good peolple has rain collectors, or primitive axes. But the game presumes that they would build them when they need it.

As the suppresors, I think.

 

And that was the point. If people need things they manage to get them or build them. You can limit the access to the supressors with a high skill level requirement and/or recipe (magazine "guns & smoke" or something like that).

[Gaffa Tape Warrior]

 

a wooden suppressor [...] perhaps wrapping it in iron [...] a cone out of some sheet metal.

 

This exactly proves my point about people having no idea how suppressors work, and quite nicely at that. Suppressors aren't just "things attached to the end of a gun." Neither a cone of metal nor a wooden... something? would suppress the sound in any way. Suppressors work by giving the gas (and sound) many small, internal surfaces in which to expand. This controls how quickly the gas expands, cools, and dissipates, which then controls how much sound it produces when it eventually leaves the enclosed chamber. Something open, like a wooden something or a metal cone would do nothing whatsoever. Like I said, this is a perfect illustration of how people who have no idea how a suppressor works would never figure out how to make one themselves. You have to have some kind of understanding of the concept before you can make something.

I did look up suppressors on the internet before posting, but just mentioned a simple cone because all I knew about them before looking it up on the internet was that they let the gas expand more gradually, and in PZ there's no internet. So yes, if there were zombies, I would not make a good suppressor unless I actually reinvented them myself or perhaps read about them in a lucky encyclopedia. I live in the UK where guns are not commonly owned. Maybe someone in the USA would already know the internal structure of one? Maybe they've got encyclopedias that have a section on them? I don't know.

 

 

Maybe one idea is someone reading this who owns a gun could actually try making a wooden suppressor if it's not illegal where you are, perhaps wrapping it in iron to keep it from blowing apart if it would otherwise do so, and trying it out to see if it helps at all. Or you could make a cone out of some sheet metal.

 

And for the record, please no one do this. This is incredibly dangerous and get someone killed. And Gaffa, I'm sure your intent was not to hurt anyone, but please don't recommend people modifying their firearms if you don't know what you're talking about. I don't mean to be harsh on you, but if someone who didn't really know what they were doing tried this, they could actually die. If you caught the compressed gasses wrong in something made of wood it would blow apart- and wrapping it in iron would only make it more dangerous. Guns aren't toys, and you should not be asking people to do something like this.

Well if someone was hiding behind something and fired the gun by pulling a piece of string then his well-being would be safe? Then the only things to worry about would be the (expensive) gun, and the thing on the end, and other things like the vice or whatever would hold the gun. But yes, it is good advice not to do something foolish because someone on the internet suggested something. Like if I suggested cleaning a high window from the outside and someone tried it and fell and became seriously injured. Or if I suggested a way of making a bomb and someone read it and made one and injured himself because he decided to set it off right next to him. That would be bad. You have my apology.

 

 

In the context of PZ, if it is too unlikely that someone would make a functional suppressor himself, then maybe there should be the option to try to make one, but it just blows up when you shoot, or does not make it quieter, or something like that.