Zombie backwards staggering invulnerability

[BoogieMan]

I don't know if it's really so much you pushing back something like 5 zombies as much as you pushing back a zombie or two and they then slam in to zombies behind them, pushing them with their own momentum. Realistic, IMO.

 

Staggering from melee hits is also realistic, as is cautiously taking on large groups so long as you don't get worn out and tired. Zombies have no self preservation. They don't guard against attacks or try to dodge. They don't care if they get hit. If you wailed someone in the head with an object and even if they felt no pain,they'd be staggered because of the force throwing the head back and interrupting balance.

 

If melee weapons hit and cause the same damage as to their initial target, yeah I agree maybe that should be tweaked. Maybe 2 or 3 hit with the arc of the swing with damage dropping sharply with each subsequent hit to account for lost momentum. However I don't really remember any time in the recent builds where I have killed more than one zombie with a swing, even with a highly skilled and strong axeman. Knocked several back, sure.. But I don't ever remember more than one being outright killed with one blow, but then again maybe I just am not paying close enough attention.

 

To be honest, if they went super realistic with the combat mechanics I think it would favor the humans more and more. The only things the Zombies really have over us is numbers, lack of fatigue, and that attacks that don't either cripple or outright kill being wholly ineffective due their lack of pain or suffering from blood loss. They aren't good fighters and they are totally unintelligent. If you went more even realistic, once you killed a big group they would likely be tripping and stumbling over the corpses of the others. Making them even slower and easier to kite. The same could happen to a person of course, but as long as you watched where you go it would be easy to use it as yet another tool to make hordes even easier.

 

If the player's ability to deal with the smallish hordes (sub 20s?) is further nerfed then you start forcing retreat as the only option and that's not fun. Not an easy thing to balance especially given the wide range of player skills out there.

 

In my opinion putting a lot of effort towards changing how zombies work seems like a bad idea before NPCs make an arrival. Other Humans (especially aggressive ones) will add not only their own challenge to the game, but zombie movement and behavior will be more erratic as they are dragged all over by the sounds and sights of all the extra fleshy meatbags scurrying about.

[Livio Persemprio]

my suggestion wasn't aiming for realism, it was aiming for a more stealth approach and more scary zombies, as it's the intention of the devs to raise difficulty level
quoting the devs:
"Survival mode is meant to be hard. It's meant to be REALLY hard. Every day you don't get eaten or starve to death should be a blessing. Escaping the horde should be an unending challenge and you should rarely feel safe."

and i can assure you that's not what happens out there, especially in multiplayer. people treats zombies as mobs, annoying mobs.

"If the player's ability to deal with the smallish hordes (sub 20s?) is further nerfed then you start forcing retreat as the only option and that's not fun. Not an easy thing to balance especially given the wide range of player skills out there."
nope, retreat wouldn't be the only option. playing it smart.
as i suggested, you could lure them one by one, you could split them using houses, you could break the line of sight and use obstacles to your advantage. feeling safe versus 20 zombies while fighting melee is not right, that's not the feel the devs intended for the game.

it's a zombie game, i'm fine with the fact that npc will add a lot to the game, and i'm fine with the fact that in multiplayers other people are a threat much greater than zombies, but that doesn't mean that zombies must be just something annoying to be feared only when in a ridicolously big group

[BoogieMan]

It's not "safe" but once you're used to the game it's not exactly hard either. You can also only take out so many before you get exertion effects.

 

As for luring them one at a time? I don't think that is feasible to utilize routinely. Usually they are in fairly tight little mobs and odds are you'll get several at a time at best. Regardless, I think having to do that routinely would quickly become tedious. Replacing one undesirable style with another. You shouldn't be Mr Badass just as much as you shouldn't be Mr pansy. I agree it should be a bit harder, but I don't think that's the way to do it.

 

 

Another thing to consider is I imagine most people always build an ideal character for their play style and are also probably pretty aggressive towards the zombies. That's not exactly seeking a challenge in itself. I've been enjoying a game recently where I created a character that isn't good at combat, and I also role play them as a very cautious person who won't engage zombies unless he feels very safe to do so. He also is very attached to his house (house he was in when the game started, won't move base unless it's absolutely mandatory.)

 

Being a sandbox game, it's just as much our job as the player to create a challenging environment. Be that with character design, sandbox settings, or other self imposed restrictions.

[Livio Persemprio]

well, i'm not completely sure on how to do this then, but i really think something should make people avoid being aggressive towards zombies as the main approach used by the majority of the community.
i always play sneaky, study the road and engage only when it's necessary. i do a lot of luring away for example, i use traps, i do my best to stay away from danger and i mostly play a doctor because i like that background.

what's your idea for balancing the game to be a bit more harder? hard enough to have zombies seen as a threat but not enough to make it tedious

i agree on mostly anything, i think that it's up to the player to self impose restrictions to make the game more interesting, but that doesn't merge at all with multiplayer, unless you have a group.

my call was that if you couldn't be that sure to deal with 20 zombies in a row, then you might acutally think twice before playing aggressive. maybe something that rewards luring away?

[BoogieMan]

Honestly I'm not sure what I would do were it up to me. If it wasn't hard to fix it would have been done already.. I don't think any one fix would do a good job alone, but rather a number of smaller fixes that work together.

 

A few ideas:

 

-Addition of longer lasting psychological effects.

 

There would need to be some kind of hidden mental fortitude stat. Perhaps something like health, that steady degrades as you take damage, prolonged/frequent periods of panic, time without food at higher hunger levels, fatigue, being outside in the dark, hearing zombies nearby. Essentially a stress level, I suppose. Certain professions and skills would be more resistant or more susceptible to the effects of stress than others as well as how many zombies you've killed, how long you've survived, how long since you've had human contact.

 

 

-Small chance for prolonged/severe panic to cause you to drop your weapon when you use it.

 

-Stress from panic and injuries interfering with sleep quality.

 

 

-More sandbox options that can have profound effects on your character and play style

 

Addition of a NPC(s) that you can customize who are largely reliant upon the player. Someone you have to care for and protect. Could be a loved one, or even a family.

 

Military eradication squads that sweep through from time to time, under orders to exterminate the dead and the "infected" - or just the still alive "infected" people to prevent them from "spreading" the illness.

 

More severe weather and the effect it has upon the player.

 

 

 

 Things like that. At the very least they would add some much needed variety.

[Livio Persemprio]

The mental fortitude sounds awesome, and perhaps it could be balanced so that your character can be either good at killing or good at remaining sane (for the sake of the gameplay), so that an aggressive player is forced to not just charge all the times.

I like the stress and sleep idea too. I won't count on npc until they're out though.

I hope we'll get some more opinions on the matter and I'm still half convinced that less pushback could be a good measure too

[Mike280]

I just had this image of someone swinging away at a bunch of zombies and them all staggering back like.