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Zombie backwards staggering invulnerability


BoogieMan

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When zombies are knocked back and shoved, they seem to be invulnerable during their backwards staggering animation, you can swing at them but it never connects, it just whiffs right through them as if they aren't there. When they are shoved when they are right up against a wall, they just stagger backwards in place for the full duration of the animation even if there is no room for them to do so. During which they are immune to melee hits.

 

Would it be possible to remove the frame-based invulnerability or whatever it is that causes this?

 

 

A nice bonus would be an extra effect of them being knocked against the wall would stop the animation all together(instead of awkwardly stumbling in place) and stop them for a moment while they regain balance. Even better yet if there is a chance for them to be knocked down, modified by strength.

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  • 2 weeks later...

+1 to this - personally I'm in the opinion that they should fall down of you hit them hard enough to stagger them, but innintrest of gameplay balance I get that might make them too easy.

Instead, I'd be happy just to be able to get a hit on them while they stagger. There have been times that I have been bitten when fighting two on one, not because they got the upper hand or I did anything stupid but because one of the zombies turned immortal and I lost concentration as my character flailed an axe uselessly through its skull.

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Hopefully this is part of the Build 33 animations overhaul.

But 33 isn't getting the animation overhaul at least afaik. That's later. 33 is botany, bugs, creative, TV/radio and FMOD.

On topic , I agree that something should be done to address the combat, but as Teesee hopes, we'll hopefully get that with the anims, just not 33 though...

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yep, that frame of invincibility is irritating, but still humans are op. i can see this as a necessary fix once a normal palyer can't push back more than five zombie in a single hit. i'm sick and tired of people fighting groups of 20 zeds with melee like it is a normal thing. my suggestion is to integrate Svarog's weapon nerf mod first, and then to fix that invulnerability frame you get to balance thing out

edit: if not through the weapon nerf, then zombies should be boosted through  a reduced stagger chance
zombies are the kind of creatures that keep walking towards you even though you just shot them in the chest or cutted an arm away with an axe. if you'd hit a group of 5 or more, then maybe one should stagger, the others should keep going for your tasty neck

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i'm sick and tired of people fighting groups of 20 zeds with melee like it is a normal thing.

A skilled enough person with a good old-fashioned weapon can kill 20 unskilled people with weapons, and zombies are really unskilled and slow and have no weapons. If you imagine playing bulldog when you have to run past them, and the bulldogs outnumber you, and you have to run around them and shake them off and even take down a bulldog or two on your way, they can actually run and they have skill. It would be like playing bulldog with slow unskilled people who can bite, and you having a weapon.

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i'm sick and tired of people fighting groups of 20 zeds with melee like it is a normal thing.

A skilled enough person with a good old-fashioned weapon can kill 20 unskilled people with weapons, and zombies are really unskilled and slow and have no weapons. If you imagine playing bulldog when you have to run past them, and the bulldogs outnumber you, and you have to run around them and shake them off and even take down a bulldog or two on your way, they can actually run and they have skill. It would be like playing bulldog with slow unskilled people who can bite, and you having a weapon.

 

a pack of zombie coming towards you means an almost sure scratch, what people do right now is pushing back 5 zombies with a single hit. no way an average person could do that, not with monsters that ignores the damage in order to bite you.

watching people pushing back all those zombies and then killing them up is just ridicolous and breaks the idea that it's their world. you just need to be in a good shape and you can basically conquer any area you need, as long as there are no super hordes.

another thing that shows you that the game is meant to make you avoid big fights is that the loot system rewards the presence of zombies, i recall reading that if you have 8+ zombies around the area then you'll have a better chance of good loot.

so, the main point is that you see people attacking whole groups, just relying on that super powerful stagger (you can push back one or two of them with a single hit, but you'll get tired pretty quick realistically), with 5 ore more zombies pushed back with a single hit; you shouldn't have all that strenght in the first place and they should mostly ignore direct hits in order to bite you. they stagger even if you hit them with a knife

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I agree that pushing back five zombies at once does not make sense. Maybe they will improve the combat sytstem later. I only expressed disagreement about being sick and tired of people fighting groups of 20 zeds with melee like it is a normal thing. Maybe in the future the protagonist is not going to have to stand still to perform a combatative action, so pushing back several zombies at once can be removed while maintaining the possibility of winning against 20 zombies. You mentioned a pack of zombies coming at you meaning a sure scratch. If the weather shows a chance of zombies and you dress sensibly then scrathes should not be a problem.

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IMO you shouldn't be able to effectively stand still and combat 20+ Zombies.

I've killed hundreds to thousands of zombies via melee in a day with almost no ill effects.

 

The pushing just makes it harder to hit the zombies, but its a stun effect that makes it easier to kill compared to if they had no knock at all.

 

When attacking with melee I can understand standing still if you power attack, same for aiming guns,

When moving I think melee damage should decrease if you move away, and gun accuracy should decrease.

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Haven't seen people abuse pushback. Generailly if you're pusing against 5 more zombies, they're spread out and you're about to die .  ..

zombies have a different walking speed, once 20 approaches you, you push back the closest, retreat and deal with all of them slowly.

the point is that you push back too many of them too easily. my ideal situation would be to implement Svarog's weapon nerf

that way you can still kill 20 zombie if you're lucky, strong and brave enough, but it won't be easy, it's not just hit, retreat, hit again and repeat until dawn, you'll actually need to plan movements better, you'll want to avoid to aggro groups all the time, you'll prefer killing them slowly one by one, or if you'll aggro a group, you'll need to split them, for example by putting buildings between you and them

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Haven't seen people abuse pushback. Generailly if you're pusing against 5 more zombies, they're spread out and you're about to die .  ..

zombies have a different walking speed, once 20 approaches you, you push back the closest, retreat and deal with all of them slowly.

the point is that you push back too many of them too easily. my ideal situation would be to implement Svarog's weapon nerf

that way you can still kill 20 zombie if you're lucky, strong and brave enough, but it won't be easy, it's not just hit, retreat, hit again and repeat until dawn, you'll actually need to plan movements better, you'll want to avoid to aggro groups all the time, you'll prefer killing them slowly one by one, or if you'll aggro a group, you'll need to split them, for example by putting buildings between you and them

 

implementing Svarog's weapon nerf mod won't change the fact that you could still walk backwards and kill a group of 20 zombies fairly easily the only thing it would change is that it would take longer because you can't hit a group of zombies.

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Haven't seen people abuse pushback. Generailly if you're pusing against 5 more zombies, they're spread out and you're about to die .  ..

snip

implementing Svarog's weapon nerf mod won't change the fact that you could still walk backwards and kill a group of 20 zombies fairly easily the only thing it would change is that it would take longer because you can't hit a group of zombies.

 

that would force you to avoid that kind of fight more often than now, because you'd be tired, fatigued, or you'd take long enough to risk to attract more zombies, or you'd be forced to avoid the fight because you need to loot a place pretty far and you need the daylight so you can't waste time like that. i think that making it so that you can't hit group of zeds is a good start, after that they'll be able to grab you sooner or later, i think it will be one of those new animations that the devs are preparing. these two things combined should buff zombies enough to make it so that you'll need a buddy to fight a group with one luring and one killing, or you'll need to be more tactical by splitting them somehow. i actually wish that the stagger chance gets reduced, recently i used a poolcue and let me say this: it was amazing. often you hit the zed and it just ignores your hit and goes for the bite, i got scared a.f. and i felt way more alive that time than the average. i wish that only a strong character with a good blunt skill and a trait to enhance his strenght would be capable of staggering often, otherwise zombies are cool because they ignore the damage and go for the neck.

tl;dr i think zombies need buffs: way less often staggering, no chance of hitting multiple zeds with a single melee hit, and finally the ability to grab (wich will be implemented  afaik)

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Haven't seen people abuse pushback. Generailly if you're pusing against 5 more zombies, they're spread out and you're about to die .  ..

zombies have a different walking speed, once 20 approaches you, you push back the closest, retreat and deal with all of them slowly.
So you're not actually standing still. What you're describing is "Dealing With Zombies 101"
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Haven't seen people abuse pushback. Generailly if you're pusing against 5 more zombies, they're spread out and you're about to die .  ..

zombies have a different walking speed, once 20 approaches you, you push back the closest, retreat and deal with all of them slowly.
So you're not actually standing still. What you're describing is "Dealing With Zombies 101"
Had this picture of some guy, swivling like a tripod, Hulk-Hoganing zombies away by spamming the spacebar.

Now I am sad. (And it sort of works if you're in a corner, but you'll just die eventually . . . )

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the point is that zombies are too easy, i don't think it's balanced for them to be staggered in group just because you found a baseball bat (even less with the axe since a sharp weapon shouldn't stagger at all), they're not scary at all. all weapons should act like the poolcue in my opinion, with a chance for zombie to ignore the damage and go for the bite.
of course better grabs will make things more interesting, but as long as you'll be able to push so many of them back you won't have a reason to actually hide from them. i still have to find a server where someone thinks that zombies are scary, they'd rather charge with melee, get bitten and make a new character, and that's not their fault, players just follow the easiest way, and that's just charging and killing. i'm pretty sure the devs are aiming for zeds to be stronger, since i remember you need 8+ zombies around the area to actually get the best chance of good loot, so that means they think you'll sneak in, instead of killing everything.
you get a good amount of zeds out of your safehouse? you lure them away and then loose line of sight and head back.
or you could split them using houses and woods, so that you can kill them the smart way

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the point is that zombies are too easy, i don't think it's balanced for them to be staggered in group just because you found a baseball bat (even less with the axe since a sharp weapon shouldn't stagger at all), they're not scary at all. all weapons should act like the poolcue in my opinion, with a chance for zombie to ignore the damage and go for the bite.

of course better grabs will make things more interesting, but as long as you'll be able to push so many of them back you won't have a reason to actually hide from them. i still have to find a server where someone thinks that zombies are scary, they'd rather charge with melee, get bitten and make a new character, and that's not their fault, players just follow the easiest way, and that's just charging and killing. i'm pretty sure the devs are aiming for zeds to be stronger, since i remember you need 8+ zombies around the area to actually get the best chance of good loot, so that means they think you'll sneak in, instead of killing everything.

you get a good amount of zeds out of your safehouse? you lure them away and then loose line of sight and head back.

or you could split them using houses and woods, so that you can kill them the smart way

Yeah . . . I see that change as making it pretty much impossible to progress in the game, really. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

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snip

Yeah . . . I see that change as making it pretty much impossible to progress in the game, really. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

of course, i don't like forcing people on opinions, but i wish you could try the mod yourself (especially in multiplayer where no one find zombies a challenge) and tell me if you'll stick with the same opinion. i'm no badass but i still can survive a couple of months this way (as the devs expected it to be: a couple of months and you die).

perhaps it could work as a thing for survival while leaving it as an option for sandbox

edit: well actually there is a chance you already tried it yourself since it's a mod used in your new server. nevermind then, but i still hope this makes it to the survival mode, it needs to be more hardcore in my opinion

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snip

Yeah . . . I see that change as making it pretty much impossible to progress in the game, really. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

of course, i don't like forcing people on opinions, but i wish you could try the mod yourself (especially in multiplayer where no one find zombies a challenge) and tell me if you'll stick with the same opinion. i'm no badass but i still can survive a couple of months this way (as the devs expected it to be: a couple of months and you die).

perhaps it could work as a thing for survival while leaving it as an option for sandbox

edit: well actually there is a chance you already tried it yourself since it's a mod used in your new server. nevermind then, but i still hope this makes it to the survival mode, it needs to be more hardcore in my opinion

The mod doesnt affect pushback, only the number of zombies a weapon can contact in one swing? Could be wrong, but it didn't feel any different when I tried it -- just that the axe, frying pan .etc didn't hit multiple zombies.

Will have to double check now. :D

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snip

Yeah . . . I see that change as making it pretty much impossible to progress in the game, really. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

snip

 

The mod doesnt affect pushback, only the number of zombies a weapon can contact in one swing? Could be wrong, but it didn't feel any different when I tried it -- just that the axe, frying pan .etc didn't hit multiple zombies.

Will have to double check now. :D

 

well, if that's the case then i beg my pardon. i play so carefully that i don't even start group fights, so there are good chances that i'm wrong on this one.

but i'm pretty convinced this could work on survival, i rarely engage in fights and i can survive longer than i'd expected initially (it's not like i'm scared, i just love to treat zombies like a real threat, makes my heart race while playing. once i played in a server where zombies where just mobs, i killed like 2k just myself, but they were more annoyng than anything else. the server was still fun of course, but not a challenge about zeds)

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