Gaining XP in "fitness" and "strength" "skills" takes too much time.

[Adamiks]

Like above. I think that you need to survive MONTHS to gain 6 lv of fitness or strength (5 is defeault). On 6 lv you need 30000 points. Not 3000 - 30000! On 10? 150000.. After surviving like 10 days i have like 1000 points (in fitness) and after every leveling up these "points" are reseting, i think.

 

Btw i wasn't lazy on this character - 400 zombies killed already. First 300 in first few days because i was making masacre with shotgun to clean surronundings of my (new) safehouse.

[Rathlord]

It's meant to be that way. This isn't a game that you're meant to master everything in, ever. There's always long term goals, and leveling those is one of them. It's a dev choice.

[Adamiks]

Yeah, but it's hella unrealistic. I don't think it's even posible to earn 10lv without cheating or suviving for years. I know it's dev's choice but you can really change these numbers a bit without making players too OP. This is balancing. Also i would understand that kind of reply in suggestion of new things but in suggestion of balancing (don't want to be rude, just wanted to point that out)? How you can know that for 100% devs wanted it to be like this? This is why i created this suggestion - so devs will can know that someone thinks it's unbalanced.

 

Btw do one level up makes some diferences? Because i NEVER leveled up so i don't really know if it's worth it...

 

EDIT

 

Also if devs want to make it really hard then why leveling up for example "sprinting" is relatively easy (20 days, almost 3lv) and leveling fitness is soooo hard? This is why these "skills" are unbalanced.

Also you're talking about long-term goals when full erosion of the world is 100 days. This isn't logicial at all - whole world will be covered in trees before you'll get stronger from killling thousands of zombies.

[Rathlord]

Yeah, but it's hella unrealistic. I don't think it's even posible to earn 10lv without cheating or suviving for years.

 

That's not unrealistic at all. Getting in shape doesn't happen over night, and level 10 is meant to be the absolute peak of physical perfection. Athletes take years to get there training every day.

 

 

This is balancing. Also i would understand that kind of reply in suggestion of new things but in suggestion of balancing (don't want to be rude, just wanted to point that out)? How you can know that for 100% devs wanted it to be like this? This is why i created this suggestion - so devs will can know that someone thinks it's unbalanced.

 

It's nice that you think it's unbalanced, and we appreciate the feedback. The reason I know is because it's something that's been discussed before many times.

 

 

Also if devs want to make it really hard then why leveling up for example "sprinting" is relatively easy (20 days, almost 3lv) and leveling fitness is soooo hard? This is why these "skills" are unbalanced.

Also you're talking about long-term goals when full erosion of the world is 100 days. This isn't logicial at all - whole world will be covered in trees before you'll get stronger from killling thousands of zombies.

 

Everything doesn't have to level up at the same pace to be "balanced." That's a fundamental misunderstanding of the concept- balance in game design doesn't mean absolute parity between everything. Different skills can level at different speeds without being imbalanced.

 

Erosion is slightly sped up because that gives more interesting gameplay. The devs have expressed that they want skill growth slow, because that gives more interesting gameplay. There's not a problem with them not being absolutely equivalent in time.

 

Your issue is, you're treating PZ like an MMO, where levels have to be ground out and checked off. That's not the point of PZ, even though a lot of people treat it that way. It's not a race to max all your skills, and if you play it that way you probably won't have fun. Now, I don't care how you play- you can do whatever you want with the game- but that doesn't mean that the devs are going to balance the game around that style of gameplay. The game's not about checking off levels, that's a side effect of you playing the game.

[Adamiks]

Do i play in PZ like MMO only because i would like to level up in fitness or strentgh just for once in my life? Also i don't want to get 10lv in no time i want to get lv 6 in any time before i'll die (and my record is more than 2 years... I think... btw i got killed because i went to rage mode with kitchen knife - just for fun). It's a big difference. And i think that killing thousands of zombies would make it as training, at least arms.

[EnigmaGrey]

Then enjoy Sandbox and that fine XP Modifier, I guess.

[Adamiks]

Then enjoy Sandbox and that fine XP Modifier, I guess.

But then i would level up really freakin fast even on normal skills. This isn't my point - regular skills are fine but these "on another pages" are unbalanced in my opinion.

[Rathlord]

 

Then enjoy Sandbox and that fine XP Modifier, I guess.

But then i would level up really freakin fast even on normal skills. This isn't my point - regular skills are fine but these "on another pages" are unbalanced in my opinion.

 

 

Only unbalanced if you're assuming they're MEANT to be the same as the other skills, which they're not as you've already been told. You're taking two things that are not meant to be equal by design and trying to compare them.

[Adamiks]

Actually i'm not trying to do that. Yes, i said that but to just make a example (that was bad btw). I just feel that leveling up in these "skills" isn't in my range or average player range and at that point there is no big deal if these skills wouldn't even exist, cause only like 1/4 or 1/3 of the players will can actually have any use of them.

 

This is why i claimed it unbalanced - because it's tooo way hard to level up in these skills, not because it's easier to level up in easier skills. If all the skills would be like that i would suggest to make them all toned down a bit.

[Rathlord]

Actually i'm not trying to do that. Yes, i said that but to just make a example (that was bad btw). I just feel that leveling up in these "skills" isn't in my range or average player range and at that point there is no big deal if these skills wouldn't even exist, cause only like 1/4 or 1/3 of the players will can actually have any use of them.

 

This is why i claimed it unbalanced - because it's tooo way hard to level up in these skills, not because it's easier to level up in easier skills. If all the skills would be like that i would suggest to make them all toned down a bit.

 

It's meant to be like that. Not all players will level them up. Like I said, it's a long term goal for long term players. Nothing wrong with that.

[Adamiks]

Uh well... The only i can say is - if someone is going to play days and days only to level up then he is playing like in MMO, because it's what you're doing in MMO, i'm right (if i'm not then it's because i don't play in MMOs? You're playing like a maniac to be a killing machine someday.

 

To be honest i got little tired of this discussion with you (no offence, i think we just talked about all the points that we can think of), i would rather like to see new opinions here and spend another hours talking some stupid shit like i don't have life (because i don't have it ;d) ;D

[Blasted_Taco]

Uh well... The only i can say is - if someone is going to play days and days only to level up then he is playing like in MMO, because it's what you're doing in MMO, i'm right (if i'm not then it's because i don't play in MMOs? You're playing like a maniac to be a killing machine someday.

 

To be honest i got little tired of this discussion with you (no offence, i think we just talked about all the points that we can think of), i would rather like to see new opinions here and spend another hours talking some stupid shit like i don't have life (because i don't have it ;d) ;D

 

Well here is my point of view.

 

You said that sprinting went to level level 3 in 20 days, is because you trained 3 weeks, however go up and hit the GYM right now, lets see how long you take to be a bit more strong to be considered a "level up", shit is going to take you MONTHS (seems familiar now huh).

 

Why would you actively go and try to level up strength and fitness? That will level up automatically doing things that are necessary to survival, no need to grind it, hell it never occur to me that "huh i should level up strength and fitness", i didn't even knew you could level them up until i notice a bit more carry capacity after months.

 

Point is, level 10 is when you become a fucking demi-god in something, sprinting level 10 is like having a car in PZ, is something that you can only dream of reaching, and before you say: "but why it takes so long?!!", think for a moment, how long does a athlete train for to be "decent" at something? normal athletes are like level 5 or 6 in sprinting in real life if we do comparisons.

 

Unbalanced is not the right word, they are suppose to be hard, something that only long term survival players should be able to see a bit of it, hell if you ever reach sprinting 10, you should be able to walk on the fucking water because is so broken, is something that the devs think a player wont reach unless they grind to months on end.

 

Here it comes the "Gameplay decisions of the devs" Fun vs Realism, here is a mix between realism more than fun, because reaching demi-god status in 1 month is bullshit from my point of view. 

[ValueOfGravity]

Uh well... The only i can say is - if someone is going to play days and days only to level up then he is playing like in MMO, because it's what you're doing in MMO, i'm right (if i'm not then it's because i don't play in MMOs? You're playing like a maniac to be a killing machine someday.

 

To be honest i got little tired of this discussion with you (no offence, i think we just talked about all the points that we can think of), i would rather like to see new opinions here and spend another hours talking some stupid shit like i don't have life (because i don't have it ;d) ;D

MMOs dont necessarily involve forcing yourself in a basement and locking yourself in until you're Lvl 80/100/120/200/250/Whatever the cap or the high norm is.

I agree with Blasted_Taco. You can probably learn alot about carpentry in a month or so, but the body grows so much. You need time to develop that sweet six pack that models have. Then and only then, you can go and pick some undead babes.

[Adamiks]

"You said that sprinting went to level level 3 in 20 days, is because you trained 3 weeks, however go up and hit the GYM right now, lets see how long you take to be a bit more strong to be considered a "level up", shit is going to take you MONTHS (seems familiar now huh)."

 

Actually i don't have a idea where i said that but remember that sprinting isn't fitness. I'm generaly talking about fitness and strentgh here.

 

"Why would you actively go and try to level up strength and fitness? That will level up automatically doing things that are necessary to survival, no need to grind it,"

 

I really understand that but my point isn't "i'm running and running and i can't level up!" my point is "i survived month and i have 4000 points. I will need to survive 7-8 freakin months to level up to 6 level, it's hilarious" etc (it's actually true btw, these are real numbers). 

 

"Point is, level 10 is when you become a fucking demi-god in something, sprinting level 10 is like having a car in PZ, "

"hell if you ever reach sprinting 10, you should be able to walk on the fucking water"

"because reaching demi-god status in 1 month is bullshit from my point of view. "

 

Ok, i respect your opinion but please, read what i said before pointing things like these out. I never said that i would like to reach 10lv in 1 month, i said that i would like to reach lv 6 in less than year or 3/4 of year (btw you said "this would take you months" and like you see in PZ these months are almost full year) of running/fighting around. It's a really big difference and makes me looking like a fool when i don't even said that.

 

"normal athletes are like level 5 or 6 in sprinting in real life if we do comparisons."

Again, spritning isn't fitness. Players start at 5 lv of fitness so it makes all of them athletes?

 

"Unbalanced is not the right word, they are suppose to be hard, something that only long term survival players should be able to see a bit of it, hell if you ever reach sprinting 10, you should be able to walk on the fucking water because is so broken, is something that the devs think a player wont reach unless they grind to months on end."

 

This is what i'm saying - no one can reach lv 10. At that point why devs can't make every next level not so much important and reduce the cost of points that you need to have them? I mean every next level shouldn't make you god and all levels should have reduced costs rather than every level is super costly and makes you a super machine - this is balancing. If devs thinked that a player will not reach 9-10 lv then what's the point in even making 9-10 level? If it makes players a terminators then why don't simply remove it and tone down everything a bit? This is what i'm saying - they should cost less and don't make you a terminator like it is now. If you think that "sprinting level 10 makes you a car" is balanced thing, then... Well i don't know what to put here. ;d

 

TLDR:

1. I never said i want to be able to level up to 10 lv in months or even one year. A bit means a bit not "large, large bit".

2. If players can't reach 10lv without cheating then it's talking for itself.

3. If players on 10lv are freaking Jesus+Terminator then it's also talking for itself.

4. After what you said and how it's actually working in the game it's looking that fitness/strentgh in PZ is slower than IRL and in PZ you run and kill zombies every freakin day, IRL you go to gym not even for a full day. There is a diet, of course but first humans wasn't best runners in wild world only because they were eating good stuff, actually they were eating anything they could find/hunt.

[Rathlord]

This is what i'm saying - no one can reach lv 10. At that point why devs can't make every next level not so much important and reduce the cost of points that you need to have them? I mean every next level shouldn't make you god and all levels should have reduced costs rather than every level is super costly and makes you a super machine - this is balancing. If devs thinked that a player will not reach 9-10 lv then what's the point in even making 9-10 level? If it makes players a terminators then why don't simply remove it and tone down everything a bit? This is what i'm saying - they should cost less and don't make you a terminator like it is now. If you think that "sprinting level 10 makes you a car" is balanced thing, then... Well i don't know what to put here. ;d

 

Working as intended. Don't know what else to tell you. This game is not about reaching max stats asap. They're meant to be there and still a challenge for 1+ year players. If you don't like it, that's fine, but you wanting to MMO it and get max level doesn't make it imbalanced. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the game is meant to be played and what the goals of it are. As has been said, you can play however you want... but don't expect the devs to cave before your "I want it all" mentality. The day you max all your skills is the day the devs have failed.

[Adamiks]

Ok, i understand that devs created more levels than average person would actually need to create long-term fun for good survivors but the costs of fitness and strength even on 5-8 levels is another story.

[Blasted_Taco]

Ok, i understand that devs created more levels than average person would actually need to create long-term fun for good survivors but the costs of fitness and strength even on 5-8 levels is another story.

Fitness=/Sprinting but they are tied together, here is when my lack of English starts to fuck me when trying to explain something.

 

Imagine Fitness as the ultimate goal, the hardest shit to level up, they are base stats, anyone who has played a good RPG knows what a base stat is, hell even Fallout 3 has them.

 

You want to level something that is the hardest shit to level up, a skill is easy to level up because you are practicing the same thing over and over, sprinting is a skill, strength is a base skill hard to level up.

 

 Wanna see it in full action? Ok:

-Make a character with equppied with a Fork and the lowest strengh possible (feeble or weak 4 carrying capacity i think).

-Use a fork to cut down 13 trees i think

 

You now can see a increase in strength, you should evolve from 4 carrying to 6, want to hit 8 carrying capacity? Cut down 20 trees with a fork, now you can understand the fucking pain that is training that skill from the lowest point to the NORMAL point of the game, 20 trees with a fork is a fucking chore that will take you almost 1 week in game of pure tree-fork action.

 

 

Ok, i understand that devs created more levels than average person would actually need to create long-term fun for good survivors but the costs of fitness and strength even on 5-8 levels is another story.

Thats the point, if you want to grind, go ahead, it will take you months and the reward is little, don't like it? Use sandbox, same as everything sandbox fixes everything that you may don't like. 

But keep this in mind, if you want to have 6 of Strenght, you are looking at cutting 120-140 trees with a FORK.

 

 

Ok, i respect your opinion but please, read what i said before pointing things like these out. I never said that i would like to reach 10lv in 1 month, i said that i would like to reach lv 6 in less than year or 3/4 of year (btw you said "this would take you months" and like you see in PZ these months are almost full year) of running/fighting around. It's a really big difference and makes me looking like a fool when i don't even said that.

 

How long do you think that training takes to get that kind of sprinting in real life? It sure as hell aint 1/2 either if you start off as a normal joe, and before you pull out the card of "But you are jogging for your life every day in PZ!".

 

You do know that running or jogging every day is the worst thing you can do right? At-least when it comes to training to be able to have more stamina/muscle.

 

3 times a week is the reasonable thing to do when it comes down to jogging, it has something to do with you not letting your body regenerate since you keep jogging and jogging, making your stamina go up by tiny bits instead of letting your body regenerate(recover) and let you get more out of each new week of jogging, that is how it works with the GYM too, you can kill yourself going to the GYM everyday for months and you wont see a lot of results and ended up with serious injury.

 

I am not going to enter into detail with food because i am still in a crusade with the hunger system in PZ.

 

 

This is what i'm saying - no one can reach lv 10. At that point why devs can't make every next level not so much important and reduce the cost of points that you need to have them? I mean every next level shouldn't make you god and all levels should have reduced costs rather than every level is super costly and makes you a super machine - this is balancing. If devs thinked that a player will not reach 9-10 lv then what's the point in even making 9-10 level? If it makes players a terminators then why don't simply remove it and tone down everything a bit? This is what i'm saying - they should cost less and don't make you a terminator like it is now. If you think that "sprinting level 10 makes you a car" is balanced thing, then... Well i don't know what to put here. ;d

 

Because sooner or later they will realize that they cant catch up to it, maybe some stubborn basted is going to try to do it and live years until he does.

 

Also having 10 levels lets other skills have "gaps" in between them to make them longer, it would be weird that the skill "Sprinting" only had 5 levels while Lightfooded had "7" and "Sneaking" had 8 while "Carpentry" has 10, skills like Carpentry need 10 skill levels so it can spread out the new shit you can make, same goes to engineer or Cooking, better have all the skills at 10 than different level caps (again, like in any real RPG, they all have the same level cap but they level up slowly and different)

 

I mean i don't know why you want that so much, survive half a year and you might notice the effects, thats it, only long term survivors will be able to see it as it should be.

[Adamiks]

You quoted that same part twice but it's not too important.

The only thing i wanted to say is - i can't change it in sandbox without making XP gain of regular skills hilarious. I'm actually playing on 1.2 (i just wanted to make it a bit quicker so i don't need to spend days IRL to be able to build nice looking walls, rebuilding everything because old one looks bad is just stupid and btw there should be a option to upgrade stuff instead of rebuilding everything) and even when regular skills are faster these base skills are almost that same.

[EnigmaGrey]

Yeah, this isn't turning into a general "I don't like X" topic, thanks. 

 

If you don't want to spend days IRL, feel free to change it. Not liking something, however, doesn't make it unbalanced or counter to the developer's vision for their own game.

[Adamiks]

"If you don't want to spend days IRL, feel free to change it."

Uh... Well.. I think i will just stay quiet if you wasn't talking about modding.

[CaptKaspar]

I can understand the two camps in this argument.

On one hand, you have the camp that understands and feels that strength and fitness overall take a long time to improve. That your overall strength and fitness would take months for the average person (level 5 which is the average of 1-10) to upgrade. That this becomes a late game goal for players since its something to do, but isn't required to do.

On the other hand, you have the camp that feels that leveling your overall fitness and strength takes too long. That after killing thousands of zombies from swinging melee weapons, carrying completely full loads while sprinting for miles, carrying hundreds of LOGS to build your safe house, and surviving for months doing this everyday you should probably receive at least a marginal improvement to your fitness and strength.

There is no sandbox option to increase the fitness and strength xp gain rate without also increasing the xp gain for skills like electrician, first aid, and trapping, that have next to nothing to do with fitness or strength.

I think I tend to lean towards the fact that leveling up from average (level 5) to slightly above average (level 6) does take too long. My nation's military takes raw recruits of average citizens and conditions them into fighting condition soldiers in 8 weeks. I like to think soldiers are more than slightly above average as well. You can spend a month running everyday and see a marginal improvement to barely above average (from 5-6). Yes athletes train hard for years to become elite (level 10) but they are already level 7-8s to begin with or they would be average and not athletes to begin with. Athletes are not of average strength or fitness (level 5).

The time it takes to become elite may be appropriate overall, but the time it takes to become slightly above average is too long. In this regard, I agree that the leveling is unbalanced. Elite should, I agree, take a very very long time to achieve, but slightly above average should not take more than a month or two of hard physical activity every day to achieve.

[EnigmaGrey]

Considering most people start the game under 5 points, we might have to alter are assumptions somewhat: perhaps 3-4 is really the "average," and numbers as high as 10 aren't just athletic, but Olympic. 

[King jjwpenguin]

I for one don't mind the system (plz dont be mad) but i feel it is very balanced. I see both sides but i am sadly with the dev's since (me being unable to get stronger after a good 2-3 months) so i have to say i think its pretty fair. possibly if really becomes a problem the speed at which it gains could be increased maybe from 1x to 1.1x but besides that it seems pretty fair.

[CaptKaspar]

Considering most people start the game under 5 points, we might have to alter are assumptions somewhat: perhaps 3-4 is really the "average," and numbers as high as 10 aren't just athletic, but Olympic.

I 100% agree that level 10 should be the equivalent of an Olympic athlete or an elite professional sport athlete.

However, the average should be mean of the range (1-10) IMO. Maybe instead of 1-10 we could have -5 to +5 as the range? Or -10 to +10. Average is 0. If you don't do regular physical activity you would trend negatively, and being active would trend you into the +'s.

Btw the last game I started (I think and I could be wrong since I am away for a holiday weekend and can't check) that my unemployed character with no points in anything that I think would effect strength or fitness started at level 5.

The highest level should be practically next to unattainable, but one step from average I don't think should take more than 2 months of continuous physical labor.

Would be cool to see the food we eat effect this with some sort of nutrition system. It might already, but I just haven't noticed it.

[CaptKaspar]

I for one don't mind the system (plz dont be mad) but i feel it is very balanced. I see both sides but i am sadly with the dev's since (me being unable to get stronger after a good 2-3 months) so i have to say i think its pretty fair. possibly if really becomes a problem the speed at which it gains could be increased maybe from 1x to 1.1x but besides that it seems pretty fair.

Really? I find that hard to believe if you were really trying for 2-3 months. I don't mean to disrespect, I just personally experienced something else in a shorter time.

I have for about the past month or so been doing regular exercises (push-ups, chin-ups, pull-ups) and I have had a noticeable improvement. I don't go to a gym. In doing just body weight resistance exercises, I have increased my push-up sets by 25% and my chin-ups by 50%. I have also been jogging and have had measurable improvement in my run times. I have dropped 30 seconds off my mile time on about average. I would have considered myself slightly above average condition to begin with, but I'm also into my thirties, so it's not getting any easier to stay in shape.

Everyone is different obviously and my experiences may not be the norm. I am just giving my opinion based on my experiences. I don't think I'll be that upset if it's easier for me than most