Seven points that make Zomboid a good RPG but a common survival game

[Seiken]

Let's start by saying that I'm not trying to troll or create a controversy, I would simply to share my experience of the game. I discovered Zomboid in a ranking of the best current survival and I guess it is this aspect that first interested players. And yet, after playing, Zomboid appears rather as a difficult RPG than an credible survival. In fact many aspects of the game, which are the heart of the game and not modifiable in the sandbox, are first to create difficulty, but work against realism and immersion. Here's what I mean :

1) No map. If the hero is a resident miraculously spared, he know the area. And if he came near Fort Knox, this is surely no coincidence and also knows the area. So we should be able to have a map to know where we are.

2) Forest. Muldraugh and West Point are surrounded by forests. Practice to scare and force the player to follow specific paths, but Normally, there are rather industrial areas or agricultural crops...

3) Space in town. In a normal city, even in the countryside, ways and buildings occupy 75% of the space and green area 25%. In Zomboid, it's the opposite ! Okay 3d isometric forces to expand to improve vision and passing between the zombies, but there it's way too much.

4) Number of equipment and materials. There are many objects in Zomboid, but the number of each is clearly not realistic. In a small country town, it is not necessary to search in warehouses or construction site to find an ax or a saw, simply go to the neighbor ! And these houses containing only 10 objects, these supermarkets and industrial buildings empty... how can we believe that ? In general, it seems that more a object is useful, and more it is rare. A good RPG system, but not very credible.

5) Water supplies. Imagine a Zombie Apocalypse, you decide to make water reserves. Quite easy in true : many containers are findable (bath, plastic pool, trash container ...) and can be completed before the cutoff of electricity. It's been huge reserves, which may be added rain, river, streams and crank shafts (it's the countryside) ! In Zomboid, containers are few, you can not fill most of them with running water and the best rain water containers are to make yourself with planks and nails...

6) Food supplies. Making foods supplies is difficult in Zomboid, yet the player is the only survivor in a city ! The number of zombies in the city and the amount of fresh food in the fridges suggest that there is no panic before zombification, so you should find plenty of cans of food in homes and shops. About agriculture, harvest time and conservations of products are not credible. In real a few rows of pattates require little maintenance before harvest and keep a long time in a cellar, thereby having to eat all winter.

7) Make fire. No lighter or matches, no fire. These are really the only possibilities ?

A realistic game is not necessarily difficult, even in a world full of zombies - Especially with walkers ! I think that Zomboid prefer to use conventional mechanical gaming (levels to increase, rare objects and many enemies) and play the card of Die&Retry whereas it is precisely the survival aspect which is the main interest of the game.

[KorruptkSwades]

 

7) Make fire. No lighter or matches, no fire. These are really the only possibilities ?

 

...leave the oven on overnight

[EnigmaGrey]

1) pzmap.crash-override.com; a map of some form is planned

2) Take a look at the real Muldraught on Google Maps

3) Take a look at the real Muldraught on Google Maps

4) To have realisitc loot, set it to Abundant in sandbox. Also removes any scarcity necessary for gameplay

5) You can still have a huge reserve by filling buckets, jars, bowls, pots, and by using taps and sinks after the water shutoff

6) Change the options in sandbox relating to farming, I guess?

7) Fire can also be made with a notched plank and a stick

 

Have fun.

[ethanwdp]

1)

That would make the game too easy. One of the things you need to learn while climbing the great difficulty curve o' doom is the area. If you don't know the area, you're not going to survive long.

 

2):

 

I don't see how this is a problem.

 

3)

 

For one, it's a fictional town with the name of a real town. For two, not all country towns are the same.

 

4)

 

Realism VS difficulty. Axes in the game are ludicrously powerful, and rightfully so. However, being able to gather a large stockpile of one of the most useful items in the game just by looting a few houses would make the game too easy.

 

5)

 

Again, realism VS difficulty.

 

6):

 

I think that the reason why the food is all fresh is because the apocalypse just happened, and it hasn't been gobbled up yet because NPC's aren't in the game (yet).

 

7)

I honestly can't comment on this one, I haven't survived long enough to have to make a fire

 

 

A realistic game is not necessarily difficult, even in a world full of zombies - Especially with walkers ! I think that Zomboid prefer to use conventional mechanical gaming (levels to increase, rare objects and many enemies) and play the card of Die&Retry whereas it is precisely the survival aspect which is the main interest of the game.

 

I guess I could've just quoted this instead.

[uberevan]

1:  I believe they're currently trying to figure out how to balance this mechanic with gameplay right now, like finding scraps of the map at a time, or filling it in as you discover, etc

 

2:  That's the actual landscape of the town it was based on

 

3:  I live out in the country and 100% assure you you're wrong and the actual city isn't that large.  When they add Louisville, that might be a good concern, though, since Louisville is a major city.

 

4: I once suggested that there should be more items found with less durability when you find them, so you have to repair them.

They decided it would be better for gameplay to keep it how it is though

 

5:  Planned, but also that water will go bad and need purifying, so keep that in mind

 

6:  Yeah, when there's one person in a city with enough food for, well, a city, obviously there'll be too much food but once NPC's are added it'll be easier to manage this mechanic

 

7:  It's actually not the only possibility but it's never caused problems for me

[Svarog]

Eh... I fail to understand the Title. "A good RPG but a common survival game"? PZ is not an RPG, unless you're talking pure RPGlike game mechanics like skill leveling (Which sucks in PZ to be honest because it's broken ATM) because it has zero RPG elements other than that. ATM there is no story, no characters... nothing RPGish unless you join an RP server. Or maybe my understanding of RPG games is broken, idk, when I hear the word RPG I think, characters, story, lore which PZ has none of ATM.

A "common" survival game? You mean like all the half-assed minecraft+dayz ripoffs that plague the world? I call bs on that, PZ offers a whole lot more than most zombie survival games, just name me one ZSG where you can survive in just as many ways as you can in PZ. I mean, building, farming, trapping, etc. But not done in a completely half-assed, me-too way that most Survival Games operate still trying to replicate Minecraft but "With hi-res textures and stuffz"

I'm not really going to dispute individual points here, most of the complaints belong to "In Development" category unfortunately and since it's an Early Access game we all have to accept that. I will say this though.

Survival is NOT the only "Legit" gamemode that exists in PZ. People can give me shit for not playing some hardcore game at hardcore difficulty but what do I care, I play games to have fun (And sometimes for challenge, when I feel like it, and Survival Mode is still too easy when it comes to that) and PZ allows for customizing just about any aspect of zombie lore and gameplay.

[EnigmaGrey]

RPG tends to have a rather fluid definition; personally I just go with "a game with mechanics that enable role playing." PZ fits this due to its character creation, skills and leveling, and a focus on those skills/traits affecting just about everything in PZ (rather than depending on player's input to, say, accurately aim and fire your gun). The story elements are secondary to that.

 

I wouldn't say PZ is a good RPG, though. Some of its systems are still rather shallow and, yes, the leveling up system needs some changes to bring it up to date with the rest of the game.

 

Also, banner: http://projectzomboid.com/

 

I'd say PZ is up there as far as survival games are concerned, though. Hoping one day it hits UnReal World, Neo Scavenger, and Cataclysm DDA levels, but it's alright right now.

[Blasted_Taco]

RPG tends to have a rather fluid definition; personally I just go with "a game with mechanics that enable role playing." PZ fits this due to its character creation, skills and leveling, and a focus on those skills/traits affecting just about everything in PZ (rather than depending on player's input to, say, accurately aim and fire your gun). The story elements are secondary to that.

 

I wouldn't say PZ is a good RPG, though. Some of its systems are still rather shallow and, yes, the leveling up system needs some changes to bring it up to date with the rest of the game.

 

Also, banner: http://projectzomboid.com/

 

I'd say PZ is up there as far as survival games are concerned, though. Hoping one day it hits UnReal World, Neo Scavenger, and Cataclysm DDA levels, but it's alright right now.

 

I long to see PZ hit a mix of Neo Scavanger and Cataclysm, but right now is right there with Rouge Survivor (with no humans).

 

As for Zomboid begin a good RPG...

 

Most people have the idea that a game having RPG mechanics automatically makes it an "RPG." This isn't the case. That just means it has RPG mechanics.

 

Real RPG's are games that have both the mechanics normally associated with RPG's (differing character builds based on stat systems, combat, inventory systems, and quest systems) and are set up to where your choices as your character directly influence the outcome of things around you. By your actions as this character, things will be different as you continue playing. There have to be real consequences for your actions rather than nothing more than equivalent states (a la Fallout 3's decision of Megaton vs Tenpenny Tower) or outright nothing happening (ie. everything you do in Skyrim).

 

The distinction is between mechanics and essence. When those two intertwine, you get real RPG's... which is also why they're actually fairly rare. To give you some more well-known or recent examples (that I've played, anyway) of this other than just The Witcher 3: the other two Witcher games, Wasteland 1 (even though it's really primitive by today's standards) & 2, most BioWare games (ex. Baldur's Gate, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Knights of the Old Republic, to a lesser degree Jade Empire), Deus Ex series (for the most part, anyway), Fallout 1/2/New Vegas, Planescape: Torment. I'd also look into Pillars of Eternity, which is in the same vein as games like Planescape: Torment & Baldur's Gate, but I haven't played it myself yet so I can't confirm it.

 

TL;DR: a real RPG, is a game that is not like a Sand Box or Open World (or it might have that too), but it is a game that is based on or built around ~choice and consequence~! The action you do influence the outcome, however all the outcomes are pre-made and determined by "parameters" throughout the game.. giving each player, to a certain level, a different experience..

 

PZ doesn't have that stuff right now, SP wise, it uses RPG mechanics, but other than that, you don't have choices other than "I am going to scavenge the shit out of the city tomorrow".

 

I hope that when NPCs come, we will have to take the hard choices or let them be and see what happens, maybe if you dont help someone, it will bring big consequences, or just the guy dying and the game continues.

 

Something that brings attention to me right now is this phrase that the Devs said in the SURVIVAL blog post in the main page:

"With Project Zomboid we intend to have the game-world change around you as the apocalypse develops. You’ll be able to keep up on current events by turning on a radio, and at points you might even be able to influence them."

 

This is something that might make Project Zomboid a real RPG, having choices in the matter, making choices matter and change a part of the world.

 

As for survival right now in the game, is pretty good, it could do a bit more with a harsher environment (think living in a forest and a pack of wolves around the corner or more diseases), making starving in the game a bit more of a threat in SP (may the NPCs in the devs heavens fall upon us soon), Project Zomboid can do more in the survival aspect, but i guess that when the game grows, it will focus a bit more on that.

[TheVastator]

I live in a small town and I can assure you I'm the only one with an axe in the whole neighborhood

 

I use it to chop some of the logs I buy for my fireplace when they're a bit too long.

 

It's not due to being ready for the zombie apocalypse.

 

Really!