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Balanced sheet rope nerf?


J0hnm13

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Maybe, alongside structural damage like Svarog suggested, zombies could pile ontop of eachother to reach a window?

Personally I'd like it ifsheet ropes got broken if there were meny zombies underneath them (Let's say they tore the down) What you suggest is like WarZ movie and I found the zombie pile silly :S

 

If sheet ropes were given a durability, it would be nice to see ladders get added and given a higher durability. In either case, it would make sense that we had to unequip anything held in our hands to climb up or down these.

Ladders that can be carried by players would be great, but as above, i'd like it if they could be knocked down by zombies potentially trapping someone on the second floor of a surrounded house.

Seriously, I've used sheet ropes for cheap escape more times than I can count, with time I've gotten to use them instead of stairs, sheet ropes need to be destructible, be it by a character who tries to climb one while overburdened or a mass of zombies tearing one down. Add to that my suggestion about second floor collapsing if nothing supports it and the problem of floating fortresses could finally be solved.

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Maybe, alongside structural damage like Svarog suggested, zombies could pile ontop of eachother to reach a window?

Personally I'd like it ifsheet ropes got broken if there were meny zombies underneath them (Let's say they tore the down) What you suggest is like WarZ movie and I found the zombie pile silly :S

If sheet ropes were given a durability, it would be nice to see ladders get added and given a higher durability. In either case, it would make sense that we had to unequip anything held in our hands to climb up or down these.

Ladders that can be carried by players would be great, but as above, i'd like it if they could be knocked down by zombies potentially trapping someone on the second floor of a surrounded house.

Seriously, I've used sheet ropes for cheap escape more times than I can count, with time I've gotten to use them instead of stairs, sheet ropes need to be destructible, be it by a character who tries to climb one while overburdened or a mass of zombies tearing one down. Add to that my suggestion about second floor collapsing if nothing supports it and the problem of floating fortresses could finally be solved.

It would make sense that they could be knocked down as well.

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Maybe, alongside structural damage like Svarog suggested, zombies could pile ontop of eachother to reach a window?

Personally I'd like it ifsheet ropes got broken if there were meny zombies underneath them (Let's say they tore the down) What you suggest is like WarZ movie and I found the zombie pile silly :S

 

It's silly, but wouldn't a zombie take the closest route to his prey, which would be climbing ontop of another zombie? Would also scare the shit out of us players. Imagine doing something in your barricaded two story house, and hearing a helicopter. You immediately go upstairs and destroy the stairs and head to your lookout window, only to see that the horde is literally crawling up the walls and through your window.

 

Then again, this game is based on Romero's and Brook's lore. Something inspired from an over the top, average zombie movie would seem out of place.

 

 

Maybe sheet ropes could have a chance to break, multiplied by how high up you are? Would make them a risky last resort item, and since there's no other way to get down from a floaty fortress other than climbing out of the window (and breaking your legs), it would make floating fortresses too risky. This method could also save development time from making sure every house in the game is structurally secure, and implementing the structure system itself.

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I'm not for breakable ropes. Why ? Because there are so many realistic and simple options to circumvent this:

- Take 3 sheet ropes, plait them together = much more durable rope.

- Take 2-4 ropes, a few sticks, and you have a rope ladder that you can hang, will be far more durable and with no chance of being knocked out.

- Or a few planks / sticks (or both), nail them to a wall and you have a ladder that is virtually unbreakable (unless the wall itself falls). Just from the top of my head I can think about half a dozen ways of making durable steps with a good grip for fingers and don't necessitate advanced carpentry skills. And of course this can not be knocked down by zombies either.

 

Including all possibilities would probably be a tedious lot of work to end up with ... exactly the situation we have now. In my opinion a video game sometimes have to keep it simple even if it's not entirely faithful to reality. So I say: let's just keep unbreakable ropes and screw the wall-mounted ladders and stuff.

On the other hand applying moodle restrictions, as proposed by J0hnm13, seems "simple" (easy for me as a non-dev to say!) and reasonable: if you can barely walk around because of weight/exhaustion/pain/heavy injury/intoxication then you shouldn't be able to climb.It would be interesting because it would force you to have a back up solution in case you're too exhausted for a climb ... or use a door.

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you guyz who think that a floating base is OP (ok, i too prefer taking some risk and having some fights) consider that even if it has strongnesses, it also has weaknesses, such as fire... (or maybe not i dont really know the fire spread mechanism, if it spreads up or not  -_-)

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you guyz who think that a floating base is OP (ok, i too prefer taking some risk and having some fights) consider that even if it has strongnesses, it also has weaknesses, such as fire... (or maybe not i dont really know the fire spread mechanism, if it spreads up or not -_-)

If fire does spread upwards, then it just means that a floating base is just as susceptible to burning as any other base. That doesn't really balance out how OP it is.

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i've just think of a solution against floating bases but maybe its too annoying mechanic to implement anyway here it is: the possibility to climb without a rope when boosted up by another player, that would mean floating base wouldnt be safe versus other players (still would be a no zombie-zone but heh)

Edit: i tell it could be annoying to implement because for it not to be Overpowered that would mean a system which require the player boosting up the other to be heavier than him of x lb/kg depending on his strenght or something like this (so a charachter's weight value which will surely NOT be implemented), an alternative would be that the guy boosting up must not wear much stuff on him and based upon what is carying the one climbing he'll need an amount of strenght maybe coupled with an acrobat skill for the one climbing which will determine how much chances he has to fail 'n fall

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The disadvantage of a floating base is you can see it from several screens away, the safest base still is just a random first floor cabin out in the woods. Sky bases are just nice if you don't want to worry about some guy shooting you in the back while you arrange your crates.

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As it's currently possible to climb a rope with 2 legs broken (splint) and 6-7 logs [log stacks of 4 + 3 logs], yep, the rope need some fix...

 

You could start by ;

1) Add a chance to break for rope based on overcharge (25% at lvl 1 to 100% at lvl 4)

2) Make it impossible to use rope when your leg(s) are broken.

 

That's wont resolve the problem of floating fortress anyway, but put some sense in the use of this item...

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As it's currently possible to climb a rope with 2 legs broken (splint) and 6-7 logs [log stacks of 4 + 3 logs], yep, the rope need some fix...

 

You could start by ;

1) Add a chance to break for rope based on overcharge (25% at lvl 1 to 100% at lvl 4)

2) Make it impossible to use rope when your leg(s) are broken.

 

That's wont resolve the problem of floating fortress anyway, but put some sense in the use of this item...

well you can climb without legs but not really carrying anything major and you need to be pretty fit.

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The problem with floating fortresses are the physics behind them. Another person made a suggestion regarding collapsing tiles if there was no support, that alone would resolve floating fortresses, assuming zombies would attack and knock down these supports.

 

Personally, all of my bases have been 2nd story buildings with demolished stairs, and I want to keep it that way. It's a satisfying feeling to secure yourself a home. To actually build a floating castle is a whole different problem. Adding the need for actual rope to climb reliably would make sheet ropes a strictly emergency escape item too, since ropes are much less common than sheets and clothes . I could also see myself climbing a knotted rope while encumbered, but just shimmying up a length of rope I could never do reliably with my arms full. 

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imo what you are doing here is a mind game.

Sheet ropes are weak, but real rope durability is something beyond my imagination. It would last for years, mostly suffering from weather and decay, then you using it. Same for ladders.

 

And if it is nylon (invented at 1937).....  jeez

1cm diameter rope would break at 1400kg load.

Not bio-degradable.

One of the most durable fabric-type materials.

Very common. (I have like 10m rope in my house for some other reason)

 

welcome to rl

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imo what you are doing here is a mind game.

Sheet ropes are weak, but real rope durability is something beyond my imagination. It would last for years, mostly suffering from weather and decay, then you using it. Same for ladders.

And if it is nylon (invented at 1937)..... jeez

1cm diameter rope would break at 1400kg load.

Not bio-degradable.

One of the most durable fabric-type materials.

Very common. (I have like 10m rope in my house for some other reason)

welcome to rl

Weather and sun destroys nylon rope.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Osman

Also, climbing a rope intended for mountain climbing - 9 to 10mm nylon rope- without gear, like a harness, is a lot harder than you'd think due to the extremely thin diameter. Thicker rope specifically made for engineering purposes or physical training, like the rope climb, is much thicker (which allows for the use of your legs to assit you in climbing), heavier and extremely rare.

That said, these realism arguments are most of the time pretty pointless from what I've seen. It always comes back to it being a game where game mechanics will be employed. Talking about rope types won't make a difference. We could argue about all sorts of shit, but people need to keep in mind that it's a game.

Welcome to gaming.

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well you can climb without legs but not really carrying anything major and you need to be pretty fit.

 

Well, i must agree yes, you can with strong arms... Or maybe as an athlete trained for that...

 

But i'm pretty sure you wont when wearing any gear or bag with stuff inside ; and, i'm pretty sure most of the common people wont do it (i guess) :)

 

And, my bet is you play a lot of common people in PZ. 

 

So, i stay in favor of disabling the abilty to climb rope with broken(s) leg(s) part(s).

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imo what you are doing here is a mind game.

Sheet ropes are weak, but real rope durability is something beyond my imagination. It would last for years, mostly suffering from weather and decay, then you using it. Same for ladders.

And if it is nylon (invented at 1937)..... jeez

1cm diameter rope would break at 1400kg load.

Not bio-degradable.

One of the most durable fabric-type materials.

Very common. (I have like 10m rope in my house for some other reason)

welcome to rl

Weather and sun destroys nylon rope.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Osman

Also, climbing a rope intended for mountain climbing - 9 to 10mm nylon rope- without gear, like a harness, is a lot harder than you'd think due to the extremely thin diameter. Thicker rope specifically made for engineering purposes or physical training, like the rope climb, is much thicker (which allows for the use of your legs to assit you in climbing), heavier and extremely rare.

That said, these realism arguments are most of the time pretty pointless from what I've seen. It always comes back to it being a game where game mechanics will be employed. Talking about rope types won't make a difference. We could argue about all sorts of shit, but people need to keep in mind that it's a game.

Welcome to gaming.

 

 

This tppic is about rope nerfing and my arguments are about why durability is wrong and non-realistic.

I am trying to make suggestions and gather facts while you just saying no.

Suggest something instead.

 

p.s. When i was a child there were swings attached to tree branch with rope And it  lasted for years. Outdoor. -30 to +30C. Rain and snow. Sun and moon. Years...

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-stuff

-stuff

 

This tppic is about rope nerfing and my arguments are about why durability is wrong and non-realistic.

I am trying to make suggestions and gather facts while you just saying no.

Suggest something instead.

 

p.s. When i was a child there were swings attached to tree branch with rope And it  lasted for years. Outdoor. -30 to +30C. Rain and snow. Sun and moon. Years...

 

I'm saying no because I don't think it needs fixed or that these fixes are getting too complex. My suggestion is leave it as it is, however, here are some that could balance the system:

 

o Remove sheet ropes completely. This would eliminate flying fortresses, also it is unbelievable that every person on earth would be able to tie sheets together well enough to climb up and down indefinitely.

 

o Have sheet ropes have a limit to the number of floors they can be used, i.e., only be able to hang sheet ropes from one floor up.

 

o Have sheet ropes only usable to climb down, not up. Climbing down rope is much easier than climbing up. This would also eliminate flying fortresses but would not eliminate the usefulness of having sheet ropes.

One or a combination of the above would help fight flying fortresses without adding a random factor of having the rope break.

 
All that said, I don't believe the average person could tie sheets together well enough for the way they are currently used in-game, however it works as a game mechanic.
 

What kind of rope was your childhood swing? What diameter? Go try free climbing a small diameter rope, let me know how that goes. If it was thick diameter I'd bet that it was in scarce quantity and pretty heavy.

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It's a bit off topic, but it warrants a response- you don't need specialized rope for climbing. If you want a thicker rope, just braid a few narrow ropes together. If you want to add climbing knots, I'd recommend spacing them about 18 inches apart. If you want to make a rope ladder, a wagonload of crutches would work in a pinch without needing any specialized tools. 

 

... All of these things are easy to do. But do they add value and direction to the game? 

 

On topic, does anyone think it's fair that a person could carry their max walking load, and climb up a free hanging rope? Is it balanced that with a few sweaters you could rappel down from the fifth floor balcony, and get back up that way, endlessly, without it being a risk?

 

These are the things that matter. Whether the rope is 1" diameter or 3" diameter is window dressing, by relative importance.

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Couldn't you just tie the sheet rope around your dufflebag and just drag it to wherever you are? Unless every time you climb the sheet rope you are seconds from death, in which case they can bite you while you climb the sheetrope occasionally anyways.

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It's a bit off topic, but it warrants a response- you don't need specialized rope for climbing. If you want a thicker rope, just braid a few narrow ropes together. If you want to add climbing knots, I'd recommend spacing them about 18 inches apart. If you want to make a rope ladder, a wagonload of crutches would work in a pinch without needing any specialized tools. 

 

... All of these things are easy to do. But do they add value and direction to the game? 

 

On topic, does anyone think it's fair that a person could carry their max walking load, and climb up a free hanging rope? Is it balanced that with a few sweaters you could rappel down from the fifth floor balcony, and get back up that way, endlessly, without it being a risk?

 

These are the things that matter. Whether the rope is 1" diameter or 3" diameter is window dressing, by relative importance.

As a game mechanic, it is not important. There is going to be some way to egress from higher levels in a building. For realism it would be important. The way it stands is very unrealistic, and I understand that. I would be fine with it left the way it is (or completely removed).

But to say building a rope ladder out of crutches using sheets and sweaters is easy? I don't see how you could think that. It is an easy game mechanic the same way cutting down a tree with a fork is. You can do it in game because it's there, but to attempt that IRL would be insane.

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For now ingame mechanics is not completely present and we have little idea whats coming.

Most our ideas require complete rework of crafting and medical stats, which devs will never do for ropes alone.

So for now i vote to either remove ropes or make it single use.

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