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Professions that cost more than 10 pts


stio89

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The thing is that every profession is a pro. The difference between them is that some professions have a bigger pro overall. No matter how you slice it, a profession that gives bonuses to combat will always be better overall because of the difficulty in raising combat skills vs survival/crafting skills.

 

Perhaps a increase in the variety of positive traits that give skills would help people craft the starting character they want.

 

If this is a roleplaying issue... use your imagination?

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Balancing pros and cons is a staple of the RPG genre. Though I understand your position, TIS would be doing a disservice to its fans by adding high value professions that require no negative traits as ballist.

You are free to mod this in if you so choose.

 

 

This could be an option in single player sandbox instead of a mod.  Maybe there should be a starting points modifier maybe ranging from -10 to +10.  In single-player there is no cheating.  If people want to create a flawless and talented character, why not let them?  It isn't survival mode.

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Thanks for the replies guys, I didn't want to start an argument I just thought it would be really cool if all the professions where equally balanced so you could pick any job you like playing without having to pick negative traits and leave the negative traits for when you want extra positives, Some think it wouldn't be good because some jobs are OP and have better stats than others but I also proposed that all the jobs are then rebalanced, eg. if police man (5 stats) is OP then nerf it a little and if farmer (3 stats) is UP then buff it a bit, This is one of the main points i'm making I'm not saying make all jobs cost the same and leave it at that, I think some of you guys are ignoring that point. I'm saying rebalance the jobs so they are all as viable as the other and make them cost 8 pts or less.

 

Also I have to disagree with the point that combat is always going to be more beneficial compared to survival, I mean how do you compare a farmer who can easily create a renewable food source in an apocalypse (this is pretty awesome) to a police man who yes is good with firearms which is very handy but it also draws tons of zombies to you. The main aim of the game is to survive as long as possible after all.

 

Also people saying make a mod for it or use cheats have completely missed the point.

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Why does being a police officer or electrician etc also mean I have to be handicapped? Its not realistic or fun

 

To be fair, in real life, a normal person can't get such level of expertise without some drawbacks too.

 

For example, a police officer or soldier who spends a lot of time in the field probably have no patience for unprofessional/insubordinate allies, so you choose that trait with bad temper. Or they could have no patience to sit long hours with books because they're used to physical learning, and therefore can have slow learner trait.

 

A Park Ranger could get antsy when cooped up inside the house, so you choose claustrophobic.

 

An electrical engineer who does a lot of tinkering with circuits probably isn't very strong physically, so you choose the not graceful trait or prone to sickness. And so on...

 

And before I got bombarded with "Well, you're wrong, I'm an engineer AND I'm fit AND patient AND I feed 100 puppies in my free time AND can cook gourmet meals from dead rats AND can bandage someone's arm back into place, etc etc" take note I'm just saying "normal" people who specialize in their professions.

 

Well, you're probably right that some values and points need to be tweaked. But I also think that there's slight realism in the fact that no one not everyone is perfect.

 

 

I do see your point, In reality nobodies perfect, But I don't get how a Farmer (+2) or Carpenter (+2) can be perfect in game but an Electrician (-4) or Fisherman (-2) cannot. I'm sorry but in the grand scheme of things it's just poor profession balance and roleplay is not a good excuse. 

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I don't know if balancing all the jobs is even possible. The value we place on each skill is ultimately different from person to person.

 

It could be that they are not going for a balance 0 profession list so that they have the option to add professions with unique traits later on and just attach a proper detrimental point value.

 

Objectionably, raising Aiming to level 3 is far harder than raising Farming, Cooking, Carpentry, ect. Both in ability to repeatedly preform the needed actions, and in the needed number of actions. (Aiming does not have a book.)

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Taking 4 points of drawbacks does not make your character 'handicapped'. Its all about game balance.

 

Also debating the relative small-arms expertise between soldiers and police officers is far more nuanced than first glance might suggest, and has to do with the job an individual has within their organization. The vast majority of soldiers are not infantrymen, and many do not carry weapons while on duty, while all cops are armed anytime they are on duty (unless they are visiting a jail/prison). Certainly SWAT and Special Forces have a much higher requirements regarding shooting skills, but the average police officer or soldier still has to qualify every year in most places. 

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Why does being a police officer or electrician etc also mean I have to be handicapped? Its not realistic or fun

 

To be fair, in real life, a normal person can't get such level of expertise without some drawbacks too.

 

For example, a police officer or soldier who spends a lot of time in the field probably have no patience for unprofessional/insubordinate allies, so you choose that trait with bad temper. Or they could have no patience to sit long hours with books because they're used to physical learning, and therefore can have slow learner trait.

 

A Park Ranger could get antsy when cooped up inside the house, so you choose claustrophobic.

 

An electrical engineer who does a lot of tinkering with circuits probably isn't very strong physically, so you choose the not graceful trait or prone to sickness. And so on...

 

And before I got bombarded with "Well, you're wrong, I'm an engineer AND I'm fit AND patient AND I feed 100 puppies in my free time AND can cook gourmet meals from dead rats AND can bandage someone's arm back into place, etc etc" take note I'm just saying "normal" people who specialize in their professions.

 

Well, you're probably right that some values and points need to be tweaked. But I also think that there's slight realism in the fact that no one not everyone is perfect.

 

 

I do see your point, In reality nobodies perfect, But I don't get how a Farmer (+2) or Carpenter (+2) can be perfect in game but an Electrician (-4) or Fisherman (-2) cannot. I'm sorry but in the grand scheme of things it's just poor profession balance and roleplay is not a good excuse. 

 

 

Electricians have a wider variety of benefits, and Fishermen have a more reliable skillset? It's not poor balance, it's balance.

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Why does being a police officer or electrician etc also mean I have to be handicapped? Its not realistic or fun

 

To be fair, in real life, a normal person can't get such level of expertise without some drawbacks too.

 

For example, a police officer or soldier who spends a lot of time in the field probably have no patience for unprofessional/insubordinate allies, so you choose that trait with bad temper. Or they could have no patience to sit long hours with books because they're used to physical learning, and therefore can have slow learner trait.

 

A Park Ranger could get antsy when cooped up inside the house, so you choose claustrophobic.

 

An electrical engineer who does a lot of tinkering with circuits probably isn't very strong physically, so you choose the not graceful trait or prone to sickness. And so on...

 

And before I got bombarded with "Well, you're wrong, I'm an engineer AND I'm fit AND patient AND I feed 100 puppies in my free time AND can cook gourmet meals from dead rats AND can bandage someone's arm back into place, etc etc" take note I'm just saying "normal" people who specialize in their professions.

 

Well, you're probably right that some values and points need to be tweaked. But I also think that there's slight realism in the fact that no one not everyone is perfect.

 

 

I do see your point, In reality nobodies perfect, But I don't get how a Farmer (+2) or Carpenter (+2) can be perfect in game but an Electrician (-4) or Fisherman (-2) cannot. I'm sorry but in the grand scheme of things it's just poor profession balance and roleplay is not a good excuse. 

 

 

Electricians have a wider variety of benefits, and Fishermen have a more reliable skillset? It's not poor balance, it's balance.

 

 

In an apocalypse is an electrician really stronger than a farmer? I mean electricity is very handy to have but what use is a working refrigerator when there's no food to put in it. Humans require food not electricity, Also I would argue that farming is a lot more reliable than fishing. Who's to say the zombie virus doesn't reach marine life, I think there's alot more chance that happening than it effecting crops. Would you eat a zombie fish?

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Taking 4 points of drawbacks does not make your character 'handicapped'. Its all about game balance.

 

Would it not be better to implement balance in the professions themselves, If a certain number of professions are really OP would it not be better to nerf them slightly (give them less benefits) to bring them in line with the other jobs instead of forcing us to take negative traits to play a certain job.

 

Would it be so crazy if we had a system where all professions where equally balanced (some nerfed/some buffed) and we could pick any job without having to handicap ourselves and we only had to take negatives if we wanted extra positives, You can be a carpenter for free but if you want to be a carpenter who's an also athlete you have to pay for the athlete trait by also being a slow reader and claustrophobic etc.

 

Do some of you guys actually enjoy having to take negative traits if you want to play a certain job? Is this a good fun system of balance for everybody? Is there no other way to balance the jobs? Is having to take negative traits with certain jobs really the only way for the game to be balanced?

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Great discussion here!

 

Just a few quick comments from my side

 

I don't know if balancing all the jobs is even possible. The value we place on each skill is ultimately different from person to person.

 

 

Perfect balance for everyone will never be obtained. That is universal. 

 

However, in my experience, the more professions / skills you have in the pool, the harder is to balance a game. I think it was a necessary boost (and a common request on these forums) to add more as the basic set was lacking. I don't know if it went a bit too high tough, only time will tell. Devs have access to the metadata we users generate. If some of the current professions are not being used / picked by the vast majority of players, there are three simple choices: you can either boost the unnused ones (most popular choice), nerf the most used (way unpopular) or delete / merge some professions so you have a less varied source of balance issues (and then go back to square one). 

 

Those of you familiarized with MMORPG will know that rarely a game with a high number of professions + customization reaches true balance. The ones that get close tend to sacrifice variety. Ultimately, its a design choice the makers have to bet on :)

 

Do some of you guys actually enjoy having to take negative traits if you want to play a certain job? Is this a good fun system of balance for everybody? Is there no other way to balance the jobs? Is having to take negative traits with certain jobs really the only way for the game to be balanced?

 

 

I'm still feeling a bit lost when creating a new char and the system is making me feel a bit sad right from the start (maybe this is intended?, the PZ scenario is not pretending to be pleasant). So many things to pick up and so very few points. 

 

Call me soft, I think your positive traits should be higher than the negative ones, not right away balanced. I like the handicap idea, but I think PZ takes this to a painful level (which I'm not labelling as bad "per-se"). Giving me a a max of points I can spend on possitive things and a min of points I must spend in negative traits is something I definitely enjoy. But the feeling you have when creating any kind of "jack of all trades" char is that you are severely handicapped in so many ways that you'll be dead before putting any of your skills in use. 

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Great discussion here!

 

Just a few quick comments from my side

 

I don't know if balancing all the jobs is even possible. The value we place on each skill is ultimately different from person to person.

 

 

Perfect balance for everyone will never be obtained. That is universal. 

 

However, in my experience, the more professions / skills you have in the pool, the harder is to balance a game. I think it was a necessary boost (and a common request on these forums) to add more as the basic set was lacking. I don't know if it went a bit too high tough, only time will tell. Devs have access to the metadata we users generate. If some of the current professions are not being used / picked by the vast majority of players, there are three simple choices: you can either boost the unnused ones (most popular choice), nerf the most used (way unpopular) or delete / merge some professions so you have a less varied source of balance issues (and then go back to square one). 

 

Those of you familiarized with MMORPG will know that rarely a game with a high number of professions + customization reaches true balance. The ones that get close tend to sacrifice variety. Ultimately, its a design choice the makers have to bet on  :)

 

Do some of you guys actually enjoy having to take negative traits if you want to play a certain job? Is this a good fun system of balance for everybody? Is there no other way to balance the jobs? Is having to take negative traits with certain jobs really the only way for the game to be balanced?

 

 

I'm still feeling a bit lost when creating a new char and the system is making me feel a bit sad right from the start (maybe this is intended?, the PZ scenario is not pretending to be pleasant). So many things to pick up and so very few points. 

 

Call me soft, I think your positive traits should be higher than the negative ones, not right away balanced. I like the handicap idea, but I think PZ takes this to a painful level (which I'm not labelling as bad "per-se"). Giving me a a max of points I can spend on possitive things and a min of points I must spend in negative traits is something I definitely enjoy. But the feeling you have when creating any kind of "jack of all trades" char is that you are severely handicapped in so many ways that you'll be dead before putting any of your skills in use. 

 

I hope the devs do look at the metadata for professions and consider rebalancing them, I do think negatives can be cool they can add challenge and allow you to take extra positive traits which allows the player to do his/her own balancing which is very cool, I just don't get why half of the jobs force us to handicap ourselves, If those specific jobs are OP then maybe they could nerf them a little to bring the cost down to even.

 

One idea I have that could make everyone happy

 

Police Officer currently looks like this

 

Police Officer (-4 pts)

  • Aiming +3
  • Reloading +2
  • Nimble +1
So if we want to be a police officer we have to take 4 pts worth of negatives.
 
What about instead we have it like this
 

Police Officer (0 pts left)

  • Aiming +2
  • Reloading +1
  • Nimble +1

Or

 

Police Officer (2 pts left)

  • Aiming +2
  • Reloading +1

Then add more positive traits

 

Aiming +1 (costs 2 pts)

Reloading +1 (costs 2 pts)

Nimble +1 (costs 2 pts)

 

Then do something like that for all the jobs where negatives are required.

 

It means instead of having to pay for a lot of positives (aim+3, reload+2, nimble +1) with negatives we have the choice to just take less positives (aim+2,reload+1) to cover the cost. If players want to have the same op police officer as before with (aim+3,reload+2,nimble+1) they can easily do so and it will cost exactly the same as before just this time they'll be taking a job with some extra positives.

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 But the feeling you have when creating any kind of "jack of all trades" char is that you are severely handicapped in so many ways that you'll be dead before putting any of your skills in use. 

 

I think that there is where the NPCs come into place.

 

I want to be able to play a fat police officer that has asthma but is a good shot and is charismatic enough to lead various kinds of people who can help him survive.

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Why does being a police officer or electrician etc also mean I have to be handicapped? Its not realistic or fun

 

To be fair, in real life, a normal person can't get such level of expertise without some drawbacks too.

 

For example, a police officer or soldier who spends a lot of time in the field probably have no patience for unprofessional/insubordinate allies, so you choose that trait with bad temper. Or they could have no patience to sit long hours with books because they're used to physical learning, and therefore can have slow learner trait.

 

A Park Ranger could get antsy when cooped up inside the house, so you choose claustrophobic.

 

An electrical engineer who does a lot of tinkering with circuits probably isn't very strong physically, so you choose the not graceful trait or prone to sickness. And so on...

 

And before I got bombarded with "Well, you're wrong, I'm an engineer AND I'm fit AND patient AND I feed 100 puppies in my free time AND can cook gourmet meals from dead rats AND can bandage someone's arm back into place, etc etc" take note I'm just saying "normal" people who specialize in their professions.

 

Well, you're probably right that some values and points need to be tweaked. But I also think that there's slight realism in the fact that no one not everyone is perfect.

 

 

I do see your point, In reality nobodies perfect, But I don't get how a Farmer (+2) or Carpenter (+2) can be perfect in game but an Electrician (-4) or Fisherman (-2) cannot. I'm sorry but in the grand scheme of things it's just poor profession balance and roleplay is not a good excuse. 

 

 

Electricians have a wider variety of benefits, and Fishermen have a more reliable skillset? It's not poor balance, it's balance.

 

 

In an apocalypse is an electrician really stronger than a farmer? I mean electricity is very handy to have but what use is a working refrigerator when there's no food to put in it. Humans require food not electricity, Also I would argue that farming is a lot more reliable than fishing. Who's to say the zombie virus doesn't reach marine life, I think there's alot more chance that happening than it effecting crops. Would you eat a zombie fish?

 

Nope on all accounts of that argument, really.

 

Farming is a lot less reliable than fishing and a lot less practical (but more rewarding) - it takes more time (months) and requires more effort and resources. Fishing you can do at just about any time but is downgraded in winter, as long as you have a rod and bait. Farming is the most rewarding but Fishing is by far a lot easier to instantly reap the fruits of your labor from. Either way both of them aren't useful during the winter which puts farmers at a handicap if they don't have another way to get food for the winter.

 

Electricians are also capable of crafting many objects that can make or break PVP in multiplayer, whereas carpentry is solely based on the ability to build walls and furniture. Level 4 carpentry could do you for all that you need to physically live off of and being that that is obtainable as other professions with basic levels of effort it would make sense that carpentry isn't worth as much as a guy who knows the recipes from the get-go.

 

And your point about zombie fish... really, you are saying that? Out of all of the established lore so far, with special infected not being a thing, you still think zed fish is actually a plausible thing? 

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Why does being a police officer or electrician etc also mean I have to be handicapped? Its not realistic or fun

 

To be fair, in real life, a normal person can't get such level of expertise without some drawbacks too.

 

For example, a police officer or soldier who spends a lot of time in the field probably have no patience for unprofessional/insubordinate allies, so you choose that trait with bad temper. Or they could have no patience to sit long hours with books because they're used to physical learning, and therefore can have slow learner trait.

 

A Park Ranger could get antsy when cooped up inside the house, so you choose claustrophobic.

 

An electrical engineer who does a lot of tinkering with circuits probably isn't very strong physically, so you choose the not graceful trait or prone to sickness. And so on...

 

And before I got bombarded with "Well, you're wrong, I'm an engineer AND I'm fit AND patient AND I feed 100 puppies in my free time AND can cook gourmet meals from dead rats AND can bandage someone's arm back into place, etc etc" take note I'm just saying "normal" people who specialize in their professions.

 

Well, you're probably right that some values and points need to be tweaked. But I also think that there's slight realism in the fact that no one not everyone is perfect.

 

 

I do see your point, In reality nobodies perfect, But I don't get how a Farmer (+2) or Carpenter (+2) can be perfect in game but an Electrician (-4) or Fisherman (-2) cannot. I'm sorry but in the grand scheme of things it's just poor profession balance and roleplay is not a good excuse. 

 

 

Electricians have a wider variety of benefits, and Fishermen have a more reliable skillset? It's not poor balance, it's balance.

 

 

In an apocalypse is an electrician really stronger than a farmer? I mean electricity is very handy to have but what use is a working refrigerator when there's no food to put in it. Humans require food not electricity, Also I would argue that farming is a lot more reliable than fishing. Who's to say the zombie virus doesn't reach marine life, I think there's alot more chance that happening than it effecting crops. Would you eat a zombie fish?

 

Nope on all accounts of that argument, really.

 

Farming is a lot less reliable than fishing and a lot less practical (but more rewarding) - it takes more time (months) and requires more effort and resources. Fishing you can do at just about any time but is downgraded in winter, as long as you have a rod and bait. Farming is the most rewarding but Fishing is by far a lot easier to instantly reap the fruits of your labor from. Either way both of them aren't useful during the winter which puts farmers at a handicap if they don't have another way to get food for the winter.

 

Electricians are also capable of crafting many objects that can make or break PVP in multiplayer, whereas carpentry is solely based on the ability to build walls and furniture. Level 4 carpentry could do you for all that you need to physically live off of and being that that is obtainable as other professions with basic levels of effort it would make sense that carpentry isn't worth as much as a guy who knows the recipes from the get-go.

 

And your point about zombie fish... really, you are saying that? Out of all of the established lore so far, with special infected not being a thing, you still think zed fish is actually a plausible thing? 

 

 

 

"In an apocalypse is an electrician really stronger than a farmer? I mean electricity is very handy to have but what use is a working refrigerator when there's no food to put in it. Humans require food not electricity, Also I would argue that farming is a lot more reliable than fishing. Who's to say the zombie virus doesn't reach marine life, I think there's alot more chance that happening than it effecting crops. Would you eat a zombie fish?"

 

 

I clearly said "In an apocalypse" not "In project zomboid" Kim and syfy I don't know how you guys missed that. Please read carefully what I write before immediately disagreeing with it without even thinking about and considering what I'm actually proposing.

 

I put forward a suggestion to re-balance the jobs and make it so players wouldn't be forced to handicap themselves first if they wanted to choose a certain job which is very unrealistic in my view, some people implied that it's because of the roleplay element of the game others have said its because of balance, I responded saying that the jobs could be better balanced (try to imagine that positive/negative traits don't exist and then re-balancing the jobs) this part takes care of any balance concern, positive/negative traits are added after for roleplay & risk/reward, that takes care of the roleplay concern.

 

Any other concerns to make you not like my suggestion? Roleplay and Balance have been addressed.

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snipparoonie

 

 

 

would you please stop trying to figure out a way to build an OP zombie killer with zero negative traits. negative traits are part of the game, whether you like it or not. in the name of BALANCE. the Devs made that decision LONG ago.  it is not up to you to decide, no matter how you try to word it.

 

if THEY feel it needs to be addressed, again, then it will be THEM who makes any and all decisions affecting the game.

 

but for now, it is what it is and hundreds, even thousands, of people have been playing it this way and ENJOYING it.

 

hell, many people actually ENJOY creating negative heavy characters to see how well they can do with them.

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I guess the only solution would be leave professions away complete and start as plain char, then you have to choose your start skills and fill the gap with traits by equal out the points used for stats and positiv traits.

 

For example:

 

Plain char starts always with +8 Points

Take up to 6 Skill points (f.e. +2 carpentry +2 firearm +2 cooking) = 6x2 = 12 points used so you have to take a negativ trait to equal out

or        f.e. +1blunt +1 fishing +1 first aid =3x2 = 6 points, so you have 2 free ponits to spend on trait or other skill     

 

The whole professions are just premade skills, nothing more.

 

Way back when they had special traits, like the builder his thick skin or so it was a diffrent story, but most had choosen him because of that.

Now you have more free choice of what you pick and still people complaning :)                   

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snipparoonie

 

 

 

would you please stop trying to figure out a way to build an OP zombie killer with zero negative traits. negative traits are part of the game, whether you like it or not. in the name of BALANCE. the Devs made that decision LONG ago.  it is not up to you to decide, no matter how you try to word it.

 

if THEY feel it needs to be addressed, again, then it will be THEM who makes any and all decisions affecting the game.

 

but for now, it is what it is and hundreds, even thousands, of people have been playing it this way and ENJOYING it.

 

hell, many people actually ENJOY creating negative heavy characters to see how well they can do with them.

 

 

Again man, Please carefully reread what I write a few times before replying to me, An unstoppable zombie killer is not what i'm suggesting If anything I'm sort of suggesting the opposite.

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I guess the only solution would be leave professions away complete and start as plain char, then you have to choose your start skills and fill the gap with traits by equal out the points used for stats and positiv traits.

 

For example:

 

Plain char starts always with +8 Points

Take up to 6 Skill points (f.e. +2 carpentry +2 firearm +2 cooking) = 6x2 = 12 points used so you have to take a negativ trait to equal out

or        f.e. +1blunt +1 fishing +1 first aid =3x2 = 6 points, so you have 2 free ponits to spend on trait or other skill     

 

The whole professions are just premade skills, nothing more.

 

Way back when they had special traits, like the builder his thick skin or so it was a diffrent story, but most had choosen him because of that.

Now you have more free choice of what you pick and still people complaning :)                   

 

This isn't the case, Only electricians (-4) can operate generators, Only engineer's can make explosives or traps, Some jobs have special perks like Night Owl, Desensitized, Axe Man. I don't think jobs are always just premade premade skills. If that was the case though I think it would be lame, I like how some jobs can do special things, electrician and engineer are very cool except for the (-4) having to take negative traits to use them thing, Unemployed is more for when you want to make your own personal jack of all trades profession I think which is cool, I mostly use unemployed.

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I guess the only solution would be leave professions away complete and start as plain char, then you have to choose your start skills and fill the gap with traits by equal out the points used for stats and positiv traits.

 

For example:

 

Plain char starts always with +8 Points

Take up to 6 Skill points (f.e. +2 carpentry +2 firearm +2 cooking) = 6x2 = 12 points used so you have to take a negativ trait to equal out

or        f.e. +1blunt +1 fishing +1 first aid =3x2 = 6 points, so you have 2 free ponits to spend on trait or other skill     

 

The whole professions are just premade skills, nothing more.

 

Way back when they had special traits, like the builder his thick skin or so it was a diffrent story, but most had choosen him because of that.

Now you have more free choice of what you pick and still people complaning :)                   

 

This isn't the case, Only electricians (-4) can operate generators, Only engineer's can make explosives or traps, Some jobs have special perks like Night Owl, Desensitized, Axe Man. I don't think jobs are always just premade premade skills. If that was the case though I think it would be lame, I like how some jobs can do special things, electrician and engineer are very cool except for the (-4) having to take negative traits to use them thing, Unemployed is more for when you want to make your own personal jack of all trades profession I think which is cool, I mostly use unemployed.

 

You explaind yourself why these professions have extra costs :) special ability :)

I like the fireman, but not because of axeman, instead i like the extra strengh he has. But also this special abilities could come at cost of negativ points with plain char.

instead of choosing extra skills you could take a special ability, but just one to choose like operate generators (which i think is atm useless) or the pyromanic skill of the engineer (which i dislike cause it´s not my way to play) so both jobs are a no choice for me atm. Nightowl and the rest isn´t a choice either for me since it doesn´t really add a pro to my gameplay.

 

But like i said before, mad all chooseable in certain ways ( skills up to 6 with cost of 2 points, a special ability at the cost of 4 points and equal out with traits), i guess even then people will complain. But in the end the dev´s do what they do and it´s nothing bad for the most of the player , since stuff like obese you can work off while playing

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I'm still feeling a bit lost when creating a new char and the system is making me feel a bit sad right from the start (maybe this is intended?, the PZ scenario is not pretending to be pleasant). So many things to pick up and so very few points. 

 

Call me soft, I think your positive traits should be higher than the negative ones, not right away balanced. I like the handicap idea, but I think PZ takes this to a painful level (which I'm not labelling as bad "per-se"). Giving me a a max of points I can spend on possitive things and a min of points I must spend in negative traits is something I definitely enjoy. But the feeling you have when creating any kind of "jack of all trades" char is that you are severely handicapped in so many ways that you'll be dead before putting any of your skills in use. 

 

 

I agree. I think I would like character system a little better if it was skewed a few points in the positive direction compared to where it is now.  PZ seems much more focused on negative traits than most other games I have played.  I do think they are a good idea for balance, especially in multiplayer but I typically take 2-4 negative traits (single play) and that seems excessive to me for what i am getting in return. 

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I agree. I think I would like character system a little better if it was skewed a few points in the positive direction compared to where it is now.  PZ seems much more focused on negative traits than most other games I have played.  I do think they are a good idea for balance, especially in multiplayer but I typically take 2-4 negative traits (single play) and that seems excessive to me for what i am getting in return.

 

Then maybe you do not need as many positive traits? Fairly sure the overall balance in traits is where the devs want them to be. Or not, not a mind reader. I do think a simple mod that adds a plain +4,+6,+8 trait for those who want it would be popular.

 

I do have to seriously ask if people are complaining about the cost of the skills netted with the jobs or the job titles themselves? Some people seem to want to be a "cop" and could care less about what bonuses it gives.

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I don't know but I always thought it as a matter of how much time someone had in their life for other activities outside work. I mean, an unemployed person would have a lot more freetime than a doctor, and also the time a doctor would have had to study to get his degree a burger flipper could have used to learn about fishing.

It's about the opportunity cost, when you choose to do something in your life you are giving up the chance to do something else.

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edit: typos

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