Generator... a real bummer

[Slashnine]

Anyone else think the actual generator gimic is REDICULOUS and useless?

 

Collecting gas from gas station pump seem good. But why we cannot power those pump after electricity shutdown? And why there's no pump gas value to prevent infinite collecting ect?

 

Now the only way to play and use a generator is to rush scarvenging gas can at the begening and trying to find and collect generator just to fill them and refill our gas can! This is ridiculous!!! Generator are suposed to give us some options and provide new gameplay. now they being useless endgame because there is no way to collect more gas from unpowered gas station.

 

I feel like dev are developing potentialy cool features but ending up ruined them and providing poor gameplay... what the point of working on generator if they are barely usefull in game. Please work on concrete stuff and give us more option and gameplay instead of releashing "bummer and broken" stuff!

 

What do you guys think of the situation? We should give them presure to fix this assap, because now the thing is just a frustrating waste of time and "half" useless build 32.

 

[EreWeGo]

Or...you could be patient, and post your thoughts/opinions/criticisms in a slightly more positive way... This feature has only recently been added, to the IWBUMS branch, (which is for testing), so give it a chance to be balanced etc...

 

I'd suggest if you don't like some of the new features as they stand, or find it frustrating that new features added to this branch aren't completely working and/or balanced yet, that you might be best to stick to the Public release branch of PZ?

[EnigmaGrey]

Moved to Suggestions.

http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/14774-will-there-be-wire-and-pipe-systems-in-pz？/?p=183849

Because reality doesn't appear to work that way. There's other ways to accomplish your goal of useful generators without being unrealistic about it.

Oh, and if you try to "exert" pressure, you will simply be removed from the forum. It's not lovely to be pushy.

 

Or...you could be patient, and post your thoughts/opinions/criticisms in a slightly more positive way... This feature has only recently been added, to the IWBUMS branch, (which is for testing), so give it a chance to be balanced etc...

 

I'd suggest if you don't like some of the new features as they stand, or find it frustrating that new features added to this branch aren't completely working and/or balanced yet, that you might be best to stick to the Public release branch of PZ?

He said it much nicer than me.

[willow512]

Chill bro, the generator's just been included. No doubt it will receive some love. No need to get emotional over it. 

 

Can't you just power the tank station with a generator? 

 

I'd suggest a hand pump. These are available over the counter, so could be found in sheds. Fuel stations have a filling point where the trucks put the fuel in to the underground storage. If you open those points lower a hose with one of them handpumps attached. I think you should be able to fill up a few jerry can's with fuel without the station being powered.

 

I can imagine the devs taking that idea and putting it into the game.. That'd solve the long term fuel problem.

 

Though I personally tend not to survive long enough to get to the point where it becomes relevant.

[Magic Mark]

[Censored by North Korean Government]

 

On topic, generators need better balance to make them ideal to use. If you expect to run one for about a month, say, operating a fridge or (maybe an electrified fence in future gameplay) you would need to find an unrealistic amount of gas that you can't actually upkeep.

 

IMO all of these problems can be solved with siphoning the tanks at the station.

 

Currently the 'big' uses there would be for generators is powering up 'created' buildings. 

 

Currently a larger issue is running them inside. Obvious to anyone who knows their generator safety, that is an awful realism flaw - unless the game adds a way to hook them up to adjacent houses instead of indoors.

[Svarog]

I have a generator and enough gas to power my base for maybe 2-3 weeks. I don't use it, I find it useless.

It's risky and costly to use (Zombies, Gas, Maintenance) and the only real benefits it gives is the Fridge and Stove.

Fridge is nice for the winter (or first two weeks of it anyway, after that everything rots anyway) And Stove is just a bit more convenient to use than having to light a camp fire every time you want to cook something.

If nights were actually dark maybe lights would be nice to have but they're not, nights are only slightly darker than days.

Unless usage of electricity get's some serious expansion in some way I don't think I'll ever use them.

[Zorak]

Well I have to agree with OP. Generators, keys and keeping food in jars seems to be too trublesome for what you get.

Thers too many cons for them, you need to find fuel, learn to operate it, it generate toons of noise and you have to repair it. And for that all you get can be done in less trublesome way. light ? you have fireplace and lamp on pillar, owen ? you have bbq or fireplace. Fridges ? food its not a problem you can just find tons of canned food.

And in MP we once were able to turn on generator in our base, the fuel didnt last long enough to make it worth.

IMO its just a matter of small tweaks to make it good addition to the game.

We have same story with jars but ill keep it for other time and topic.

[EnigmaGrey]

Well I have to agree with OP. Generators, keys and keeping food in jars seems to be too trublesome for what you get.

Thers too many cons for them, you need to find fuel, learn to operate it, it generate toons of noise and you have to repair it. And for that all you get can be done in less trublesome way. light ? you have fireplace and lamp on pillar, owen ? you have bbq or fireplace. Fridges ? food its not a problem you can just find tons of canned food.

And in MP we once were able to turn on generator in our base, the fuel didnt last long enough to make it worth.

IMO its just a matter of small tweaks to make it good addition to the game.

We have same story with jars but ill keep it for other time and topic.

Guys, if this thread becomes purely a "bash canning, generators, and keys" thread, I'll just lock it and move on.

We've been over this in several threads already.

[Livio Persemprio]

i know we went through this, but the fact is you didn't justify the decision, you just said "it's intentional" and said that a generator powering the gas station isn't realistic. despite the fact that realism isn't always the main goal, sometimes you choose gameplay, so that souldn't make sense, but people suggested other ways like hand pumps and you completely ignored that. by ignored that i don't mean that we come across with an idea and you have to knee and thank and implement it right away, i mean that you could disuss it, tell us why it's not comfortable with the devs vision of the game, how is it unbalanced in game (because you know balance it's the only real issue here, there's nothing else that could make sense imo), so please i just ask you to discuss it, nobody wants to order anything

[Rathlord]

Enigma is not saying no one can discuss it, and he's under no obligation to discuss it himself if he doesn't want to. He's only referring to generators powering gas stations, and the devs have commented and said that it was intended for gameplay reasons as well. I don't know what else you expect us to say.

 

If people want to discuss siphoning or hand pumps, they're more than welcome to but we just ask that feedback remain positive, keeping in mind that this is a still-to-be-balanced build and that people respect others' opinions rather than write them off. Hope this clarifies things.

 

Edit: And besides, if I recall correctly, Enigma was actually the one who originally brought up siphoning? So I'm not sure what you mean by saying he's completely ignored it.

[EnigmaGrey]

i know we went through this, but the fact is you didn't justify the decision, you just said "it's intentional" and said that a generator powering the gas station isn't realistic. despite the fact that realism isn't always the main goal, sometimes you choose gameplay, so that souldn't make sense, but people suggested other ways like hand pumps and you completely ignored that. by ignored that i don't mean that we come across with an idea and you have to knee and thank and implement it right away, i mean that you could disuss it, tell us why it's not comfortable with the devs vision of the game, how is it unbalanced in game (because you know balance it's the only real issue here, there's nothing else that could make sense imo), so please i just ask you to discuss it, nobody wants to order anything

Added context, since you seem to think I'm trying to stop any discussion of generators, Livio. You may want to read the other thread, though: I advocated pumping directly from the tank, but not the use of generators to power gas stations.

[EnigmaGrey]

What'd be even better than a hand/foot siphon pump? A gas-poswered fluid transfer pump . . . irrigation, fuel .etc

That I'd like to see.

[Diomedes57]

    Living in South Florida we occasionally suffer during bigger hurricanes. During one bad season we lost power for over two months, MRE's were being distributed etc. So we ran a generator for fridge and AC, a TV, one or two fans a some lamps. We had to fuel it at least twice a day and make runs to the gas station about every three days, it really does take a lot of gasoline to keep a generator running even most of the day.

    It would be quite impractical in a fall of man scenario to think a generator is the end of your troubles. Just as in the game, it would only begin a seemingly endless hunt for the last gas cans of mankind.

[Zorak]

Well I have to agree with OP. Generators, keys and keeping food in jars seems to be too trublesome for what you get.

Thers too many cons for them, you need to find fuel, learn to operate it, it generate toons of noise and you have to repair it. And for that all you get can be done in less trublesome way. light ? you have fireplace and lamp on pillar, owen ? you have bbq or fireplace. Fridges ? food its not a problem you can just find tons of canned food.

And in MP we once were able to turn on generator in our base, the fuel didnt last long enough to make it worth.

IMO its just a matter of small tweaks to make it good addition to the game.

We have same story with jars but ill keep it for other time and topic.

Guys, if this thread becomes purely a "bash canning, generators, and keys" thread, I'll just lock it and move on.

We've been over this in several threads already.

Im not trying to bash it. But when none of the guys I know are using that game feature there must be something about it.

[Blasted_Taco]

I for the most part agree with OP too, i dont see how the generator begin end game, needs a rush at the first weeks to get going, especially with only begin able to refill in Gas Cans, which means that only you have to rush the pumps but also you need to rush scavenge Gas cans.

 

But i said i agree on the most part because i can think that the devs are seeing this as a kind of a future look on the game, sometime near in the future we are going to get vehicles right? That means we will be able to siphon gas off of them, then it becomes a factor of "Should i use this gas for my generator so my food wont spoil? Or should i use it for my vehicle and head out north for more loot hoping for canned food?"

 

Which if you ask me, seems like a fun game play element of choice and consequence, however, this also brings the post-apocalypse scenario which is going to present it self full on set on Multiplayer, i can already see when vehicles are added some Mad Max tier scenario where people are going to fight for gas more than food, i cant see how a 1 week old server is going to replenish gas at all, some player is going to be running around at sanic speed taking gas from the broken vehicles and leaving everything empty.

 

Is going to be "No food and loot after 3 days" scenario for multiplayer all over again "WHERE THE FUCK IS THE GAS: Edition".

 

Unless we get some sort of respawn system for gas on broken vehicles, then it might be fixed, still, we need to wait and see.

[XxZeraphinexX]

To be real. Even if there will be anyway to siphon gas from Gas stations and later on cars, at somepoint you run out of gas.

There would be noone refilling gas station or even produce gas. The generator should be seen as a early/mid game part. And as long it has no real use like atm (fridge/stove/indoor light) i don´t use it at all and don´t collect gas.

For everybody crying about it, please consider what you would do in RL. You can´t collect a lifetime reserve and also gas will spoil over time.

[Trojan_Turps]

I imagine that they're going to be luxury items that teams use on multi player on-line. If you have a team that can collect fuel when they're out looting you could get a steady flow of gas coming back to your base. In this mode gas will be re-spawning and not run out.

As a single survivor a generator is not worth it. Certainly no good as a long term constant supply of power. I have no problem with this.

[Livio Persemprio]

 

snip

Added context, since you seem to think I'm trying to stop any discussion of generators, Livio. You may want to read the other thread, though: I advocated pumping directly from the tank, but not the use of generators to power gas stations.

 

i don't think you're trying to stop any discussion about generators, i'm just glad we're discussing it, no matter how it ends.

also i changed subject in the last part using a plural form, but i guess it's not that obvious in english as it is in italian, sorry for that, one never stop learning.

anyway i'm all for your idea of handpumping gas out of the station, but i'd add a step more just to be sure it's hard but rewarding.

what we have is: you'll have to move heavy stuff, you'll be guaranteed to not be able to run on your way back.

i'd also be ok with zeds attracted to you (perhaps the most loud pump in the world?), so that it's become even more of a tactical planning thing (strategic in mp).

[zhrike]

what we have is: you'll have to move heavy stuff, you'll be guaranteed to not be able to run on your way back.
i'd also be ok with zeds attracted to you (perhaps the most loud pump in the world?), so that it's become even more of a tactical planning thing (strategic in mp).

 

 

^^ This is the point I'd make to the devs. Clearly, ingenuity could create a way to temporarily power gas pumps. Gas tanks are also finite, as is gas can storage, as is generator storage capacity. So it doesn't seem like an overpowered option. It's more delaying the inevitable; or allowing lights for a longer time with careful conservation of gas/petrol.

 

In MP think of the coordination required to even bring a generator to a gas/petrol station. They're heavy - so the movement would be slow. Gas cans are heavy. It would require a team to do it, simply to protect those carrying the resources. It seems like the precise kind of teamwork/behavior that displays the best of MP mechanics. 

 

The devs for the game are awesome - so this is no criticism there, but this particular thing may be something they want to reconsider. Pumps/siphons are a no-brainer as well, but would actually be easier to use than the generator/gas can scenario.

[Pttuw]

    Living in South Florida we occasionally suffer during bigger hurricanes. During one bad season we lost power for over two months, MRE's were being distributed etc. So we ran a generator for fridge and AC, a TV, one or two fans a some lamps. We had to fuel it at least twice a day and make runs to the gas station about every three days, it really does take a lot of gasoline to keep a generator running even most of the day.

    It would be quite impractical in a fall of man scenario to think a generator is the end of your troubles. Just as in the game, it would only begin a seemingly endless hunt for the last gas cans of mankind.

Not to make fun of you, but I always find it amazing that a TV is among the things which has somekind of priority in human lifes As for the rest of that experience, thats really useful info from a first hand experience.

 

People also seem to forget that gas stations need refuelling themselfs. If the apocalypse hits, the whole refuelling thing will end also. Eventually, the station will run out of gas, electricity or not.

[Diomedes57]

Not to make fun of you, but I always find it amazing that a TV is among the things which has somekind of priority in human lifes

 

I know me so much more than you do, you would need my help to make fun of me I think.   But there were children and two months into having no power, bad neighborhoods having mandatory curfews, MRE distribution information, which gas stations were less choked with traffic/functional, and any information about when the heck we may get power again becomes very interesting. We were keen for the news

[LeetgamerBoi]

The devs could remedy this by Adding constructable solar panels.

if the spawn count of electronics becomes common like in real life 90's, you could get a bunch of solar panels off of caluclators from the schools and offices. And just daisy chain them together, gluing them to a piece of wood, hook it up to a car battery. And use that battery to power an outlet extracted from a wall, then plug whatever you want in. 
Maybe, say, 100 calculators worth of solar panels = 100 minutes to charge battery completely... 
Electrician would suddenly be viable. 
As another thing, you can make it so if you leave it out in the rain it gets ruint forever. 

[Livio Persemprio]

I think an electrician is not skilled enough for this, but insisting on the siphoning thing will probabky work, it just needs more constructive feedbacks

[willow512]

Solar power is a viable option, even if solar cells don't exist yet.

 

Just check google images for solar powered cooking. With enough mirrors everyone can heat up a brew.

A bit more advanced is a solar powered heat exchanger to collect warm water. 

 

But we shouldn't stare ourselves blind at solar power, an engineer could easily produce a windmill using an old car or bike dynamo. This could be used to charge batteries for light or radio. It'd be harder to power a fridge or oven in that manner.

[BrokenMnemonic]

I don't know if this is any way relevant, but I remember reading the novel Z is for Zachariah way back when I was in school (about thirty years ago) and that had the protagonist drawing fuel from a rural gas station using handcranks built into the pumps themselves - so it may be something that's a feature of stations of a certain age.

 

One of the characteristics of petrol/diesel that I haven't seen brought up in this thread (although I may have missed it elsewhere, as I haven't been online much the last few weeks) is that hydrocarbon fuels evaporate, even when inside metal containers. One of the reasons that degassing fuel vehicles and pods is an intensive process and one that involves multiple wash-throughs is that hydrocarbon molecules seep into the metal lattice structure of the container, only to then emerge later on. So, vehicles would be losing fuel slowly over time anyway through evaporation, and for added fun and games, metal containers used to store fuel could be emptied, only to have hydrocarbons seep back out of the metal containers - particularly if they're exposed to a low heat source, like daylight - and create exactly the kind of fuel/air mix that makes for explosively fun times.

 

I don't have a problem with generators being limited to not powering fuel stations. I like the idea of being able to use handpumps/handcranks to get fuel from power stations after the power has gone out - even if it means going to a rural (deep in the woods? Off a secondary road?) fuel stop, but I'd expect that supply to time out - whether harvested by players or not - beyond a certain point, and I'd also expect there to be an increasing risk of fire/explosions from trying to get at the fuel because of the risk of vaporised fuel and sparks. I haven't really played with generators much, because it feels like a lot of work to get enough fuel to keep a generator going for more than a few days, but that's just a personal opinion, and my test group consists of just me.