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jonniemarbles

Endgame Balance Fix Suggestion

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The endgame is boring and easy. While a big step in the right direction, I don't think the tweaks made to the IWBUMS branch fix this - it's still pretty easy (though often very grindy) to find an out-of-the-way house and start farming. If you're not squatting downtown and you don't ever actually leave your little compound, the game still turns into Farmville once you make it past the initial stages.

 

I'm sure the spawning system will get further improvements making it harder to live like this, but it's still going to be the case that if you take up residence in a deserted farmhouse or cabin deep in the woods you're likely to live a quiet life.

 

Here's my fix:

 

1.) Seriously nerf the boredom/unhappiness boost you get from cooked meals. If my character is eating carrot stirfry every meal, this should probably add to his boredom, not reduce it. Meals should only reduce boredom and unhappiness if they are unusual - if the player hasn't had meat in a long time but manages to trap and cook something, for example. The same goes for going outside - it shouldn't count if you're just visiting the same tiny patch of garden every day.

 

2.) Make boredom and unhappiness matter. A lot. Like they should be absolutely life threatening to your player at too high a level.

 

This will make the end game Farmvillery a thing of the past - you will need varied food and or books (or other entertainment) to survive. That means leaving your compound and heading into town, which means danger, which means fun!

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.......................Nope

 

 

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Yeah.....there are plenty of people who are perfectly content to live by themselves and eat the same things. If you don't want to live in a house out in the middle of the woods in PZ then don't, but some people prefer it, just like in real life.

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.......................Nope

 

wxtirKR.pngModerator Warning

If you disagree with a suggestion, feel free to explain why. If you aren't going to do that, do not comment on suggestions. Replies like this are unhelpful and disrespectful to the people who posted them.

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Yeah.....there are plenty of people who are perfectly content to live by themselves and eat the same things. If you don't want to live in a house out in the middle of the woods in PZ then don't, but some people prefer it, just like in real life.

 

Sure, there are *some* people like that. Maybe it could be a trait. But one of the core ambitions of the game is that it will eventually kill you. That's currently not the case when you can hole up in a base (not even necessarily one out in the woods, it's just easier to build there without getting eaten) and farm farm farm. It's a survival game and, when I play a survival game, I'm gonna pursue the best possible survival strategy. If that strategy is tedious and means I rarely, if ever, encounter zombies, then that's a problem, for me at least. 

 

Going "stir crazy" is a thing - being cooped up in one place, alone, for long periods of time will drive a lot (I would say the vast majority) of people crazy. I'd like to see that replicated in the game.

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After seeing countless unspeakable horrors in a zombie apocalypse, I'd imagine the majority of people would be pretty relieved, if not content, farming their days away in relative safety. I agree that the endgame can be quite tedious currently, but the game is not finished yet. From what I've read, there are numerous planned features to rectify this.

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Sure, there are *some* people like that. Maybe it could be a trait. But one of the core ambitions of the game is that it will eventually kill you. That's currently not the case when you can hole up in a base (not even necessarily one out in the woods, it's just easier to build there without getting eaten) and farm farm farm. It's a survival game and, when I play a survival game, I'm gonna pursue the best possible survival strategy. If that strategy is tedious and means I rarely, if ever, encounter zombies, then that's a problem, for me at least. 

 

Going "stir crazy" is a thing - being cooped up in one place, alone, for long periods of time will drive a lot (I would say the vast majority) of people crazy. I'd like to see that replicated in the game.

 

 

Just remember NPCs are coming, and from how it sounds some of them will be just as bad if not worse than the zombies in wanting to kill people. I don't know about everyone else but given the choice between trying to make it in a city that's crawling with zombies and a-holes, or getting a couple like minded individuals and living in seclusion and relative safety I'll take door#2 any day.

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Sure, there are *some* people like that. Maybe it could be a trait. But one of the core ambitions of the game is that it will eventually kill you. That's currently not the case when you can hole up in a base (not even necessarily one out in the woods, it's just easier to build there without getting eaten) and farm farm farm. It's a survival game and, when I play a survival game, I'm gonna pursue the best possible survival strategy. If that strategy is tedious and means I rarely, if ever, encounter zombies, then that's a problem, for me at least. 

 

Going "stir crazy" is a thing - being cooped up in one place, alone, for long periods of time will drive a lot (I would say the vast majority) of people crazy. I'd like to see that replicated in the game.

 

 

Just remember NPCs are coming, and from how it sounds some of them will be just as bad if not worse than the zombies in wanting to kill people. I don't know about everyone else but given the choice between trying to make it in a city that's crawling with zombies and a-holes, or getting a couple like minded individuals and living in seclusion and relative safety I'll take door#2 any day.

 

 

NPCs may well turn out to be the fix to endgame - if your well fortified safehouse in the woods doubles up as a big friendly invitation to roving biker gangs that'd certainly sort out the boredom problem.  

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From what I understood there is no endgame planned... except death...?

This is why I like the idea of bombardment by fire and an invasion by NPC troopers... Mentioned elsewhere on here... it prevents the game from turning into a hundred years and follows up on the unwinnableness of the game.

 

 

 

Post-post: Maybe the longer the in-game character is alive the more difficult the game could be. More zombies. More events. More accidents. So on?

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NPCs may well turn out to be the fix to endgame - if your well fortified safehouse in the woods doubles up as a big friendly invitation to roving biker gangs that'd certainly sort out the boredom problem.  

 

 

Yeah, that's my line of thinking. If you get careless and take the same route every time you go out for something or leave trash/corpses laying around then it shouldn't be too hard for nefarious individuals to follow the breadcrumbs straight to your doorstep. And with molotovs and such back in the game it doesn't really matter how well fortified it is, a few of them get tossed into your base and you're SOL.

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.......................Nope

 

wxtirKR.pngModerator Warning

If you disagree with a suggestion, feel free to explain why. If you aren't going to do that, do not comment on suggestions. Replies like this are unhelpful and disrespectful to the people who posted them.

 

"NPCs may well turn out to be the fix to endgame - if your well fortified safehouse in the woods doubles up as a big friendly invitation to roving biker gangs that'd certainly sort out the boredom problem. " 

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From what I understood there is no endgame planned... except death...?

This is why I like the idea of bombardment by fire and an invasion by NPC troopers... Mentioned elsewhere on here... it prevents the game from turning into a hundred years and follows up on the unwinnableness of the game.

That would be very interesting, bombing and NPC soldiers

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NPCs may well turn out to be the fix to endgame - if your well fortified safehouse in the woods doubles up as a big friendly invitation to roving biker gangs that'd certainly sort out the boredom problem.  

 

 

Yeah, that's my line of thinking. If you get careless and take the same route every time you go out for something or leave trash/corpses laying around then it shouldn't be too hard for nefarious individuals to follow the breadcrumbs straight to your doorstep. And with molotovs and such back in the game it doesn't really matter how well fortified it is, a few of them get tossed into your base and you're SOL.

 

 

My problem at present is you can get to the point that you don't ever need to go outside. The point of my suggestion was that, ideally, you should never really reach this point. But I can see your POV too - building that bunker is a big goal for a lot of people, the problem at present is that if you do manage it, you win.

 

You shouldn't get to win  :twisted:

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The endgame is boring and easy. While a big step in the right direction, I don't think the tweaks made to the IWBUMS branch fix this - it's still pretty easy (though often very grindy) to find an out-of-the-way house and start farming. If you're not squatting downtown and you don't ever actually leave your little compound, the game still turns into Farmville once you make it past the initial stages.

 

I'm sure the spawning system will get further improvements making it harder to live like this, but it's still going to be the case that if you take up residence in a deserted farmhouse or cabin deep in the woods you're likely to live a quiet life.

 

Here's my fix:

 

1.) Seriously nerf the boredom/unhappiness boost you get from cooked meals. If my character is eating carrot stirfry every meal, this should probably add to his boredom, not reduce it. Meals should only reduce boredom and unhappiness if they are unusual - if the player hasn't had meat in a long time but manages to trap and cook something, for example. The same goes for going outside - it shouldn't count if you're just visiting the same tiny patch of garden every day.

 

2.) Make boredom and unhappiness matter. A lot. Like they should be absolutely life threatening to your player at too high a level.

 

This will make the end game Farmvillery a thing of the past - you will need varied food and or books (or other entertainment) to survive. That means leaving your compound and heading into town, which means danger, which means fun!

 

This would solve nothing. Boredom has no effect at all and thus this comment fixes absolutely nothing. This 'endgame' will be fixed when NPC's come out. However, if you're looking for a fix as the game stands then this still wont solve anything. Really, it's just an annoyance. Since boredom has no real effect than to take up screen space. 

 

The way zombies work is fine, always has been fine (although they have improved which is fantastic.) Rather, people *think* the game is broken when in reality it's not. It isn't finished, that's the problem. Not that it's broken. NPC's, vehicles, generators, etc. All of these things will migrate zombies and give you more zombies in the wilderness. NPC gets a  vehicle, for some reason drives past your farm and boom a horde shows up and destroys your farmstead. See? Not broken, simply not complete.

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The endgame is boring and easy. While a big step in the right direction, I don't think the tweaks made to the IWBUMS branch fix this - it's still pretty easy (though often very grindy) to find an out-of-the-way house and start farming. If you're not squatting downtown and you don't ever actually leave your little compound, the game still turns into Farmville once you make it past the initial stages.

 

I'm sure the spawning system will get further improvements making it harder to live like this, but it's still going to be the case that if you take up residence in a deserted farmhouse or cabin deep in the woods you're likely to live a quiet life.

 

Here's my fix:

 

1.) Seriously nerf the boredom/unhappiness boost you get from cooked meals. If my character is eating carrot stirfry every meal, this should probably add to his boredom, not reduce it. Meals should only reduce boredom and unhappiness if they are unusual - if the player hasn't had meat in a long time but manages to trap and cook something, for example. The same goes for going outside - it shouldn't count if you're just visiting the same tiny patch of garden every day.

 

2.) Make boredom and unhappiness matter. A lot. Like they should be absolutely life threatening to your player at too high a level.

 

This will make the end game Farmvillery a thing of the past - you will need varied food and or books (or other entertainment) to survive. That means leaving your compound and heading into town, which means danger, which means fun!

 

This would solve nothing. Boredom has no effect at all and thus this comment fixes absolutely nothing. This 'endgame' will be fixed when NPC's come out. However, if you're looking for a fix as the game stands then this still wont solve anything. Really, it's just an annoyance. Since boredom has no real effect than to take up screen space. 

 

 

That's why I said "make boredom matter". I believe this is the end-game intent anyway - boredom/unhappiness will eventually have major in-game repercussions (inc. making it hard to interact with NPCs and possibly suicide). 

 

Hey, I get that the game isn't finished. That's why we have a suggestions thread. I was simply proposing one improvement to make the (currently OP) "isolation" strategy harder and thus more fun. But NPCs may do that all on their own - even if they do, I think "going stir crazy" should still be a problem you, as a survivor, need to solve to survive (and not just by going for a little walk in your enclosed garden and eating yet another campfire carrot stirfry). 

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Snip

 

That's why I said "make boredom matter". I believe this is the end-game intent anyway - boredom/unhappiness will eventually have major in-game repercussions (inc. making it hard to interact with NPCs and possibly suicide). 

 

Hey, I get that the game isn't finished. That's why we have a suggestions thread. I was simply proposing one improvement to make the (currently OP) "isolation" strategy harder and thus more fun. But NPCs may do that all on their own - even if they do, I think "going stir crazy" should still be a problem you, as a survivor, need to solve to survive (and not just by going for a little walk in your enclosed garden and eating yet another campfire carrot stirfry). 

 

 

This

 

"I believe this is the end-game intent anyway - boredom/unhappiness will eventually have major in-game repercussions (inc. making it hard to interact with NPCs and possibly suicide). "

 

Answers this

 

"I think "going stir crazy" should still be a problem you, as a survivor, need to solve to survive (and not just by going for a little walk in your enclosed garden and eating yet another campfire carrot stirfry). "

 

You've answered your own question. Perhaps I'm not understanding what you're saying because if I am then you aren't thinking this through all the way. 

 

Let me clarify in case I didn't make myself clear. I'm not saying you're wrong by any stretch of the imagination. Rather, what I'm saying is that it sounds like you're just simply posting a suggestion you think is going to be corrected anyway and don't realize you're doing it. I'm probably wrong though because that seems so obvious that you probably wouldn't have missed it. What I'm thinking is I'm not understanding what you're saying and that's causing a gap in my understanding of your post. Does that make sense?

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Snip

 

That's why I said "make boredom matter". I believe this is the end-game intent anyway - boredom/unhappiness will eventually have major in-game repercussions (inc. making it hard to interact with NPCs and possibly suicide). 

 

Hey, I get that the game isn't finished. That's why we have a suggestions thread. I was simply proposing one improvement to make the (currently OP) "isolation" strategy harder and thus more fun. But NPCs may do that all on their own - even if they do, I think "going stir crazy" should still be a problem you, as a survivor, need to solve to survive (and not just by going for a little walk in your enclosed garden and eating yet another campfire carrot stirfry). 

 

 

This

 

"I believe this is the end-game intent anyway - boredom/unhappiness will eventually have major in-game repercussions (inc. making it hard to interact with NPCs and possibly suicide). "

 

Answers this

 

"I think "going stir crazy" should still be a problem you, as a survivor, need to solve to survive (and not just by going for a little walk in your enclosed garden and eating yet another campfire carrot stirfry). "

 

You've answered your own question. Perhaps I'm not understanding what you're saying because if I am then you aren't thinking this through all the way. 

 

Let me clarify in case I didn't make myself clear. I'm not saying you're wrong by any stretch of the imagination. Rather, what I'm saying is that it sounds like you're just simply posting a suggestion you think is going to be corrected anyway and don't realize you're doing it. I'm probably wrong though because that seems so obvious that you probably wouldn't have missed it. What I'm thinking is I'm not understanding what you're saying and that's causing a gap in my understanding of your post. Does that make sense?

 

 

 

Ah I see where you've misunderstood. The suggestion I am making is that samey food and "going outside" into walled gardens shouldn't relieve boredom/unhappiness (which will eventually matter, even though they are placeholders now). Hope that clears things up!

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