Build 32 Trait and Profession Discussion

[Moose65]

Repairman should start with +1 in Electricity, since their basically a handyman. Cost can be raised or blunt/sharp maintenance could be lowered.

 

Still lacking a cooking hobby :/

 

No Electricity hobby. Would suggest rolling it into handy, but its already overloaded. Although if a separate carpentry hobby existed, it might be OK to overload it.

 

This is simply a first glance look. Going to test out how much of a disadvantage non electricians and engineers are at learning to use traps and generators. Generators won't be a huge deal since fuel is finite and you will eventually run out, but having useful motion traps could be something that makes or breaks protecting safehouses.

[Moose65]

After messing around with it for awhile, this is what I've found.

 

There are no Electricity Skill books. Would be nice to have these (along with First Aid + Foraging) sometime in the future.

 

The skill magazines..........well, after checking out the Bookstore, the High School, and the Post Office, I found zero. These apparently ONLY spawn in sheds. This should really be addressed, as I was testing this on abundant loot, and I can only imagine the issues that multiplayer would have. Fortunately their not consumed, but its really strange that you can't find these magazines anywhere else.

 

While on topic, we need someway to access what recipes we actually know, as there is no in-game way to tell other than looking at the specific skill book to see if you know it.

 

Edit: After awhile, I was finally able to build a smoke bomb (the mats for the various traps are proving somewhat difficult to find even on abundant loot). So, I placed it........and it does nothing. Can't even pick it back up off the ground.

 

Might simply be just me not understanding how it works......but this was pretty disappointing.

[Moose65]

K, so testing this on regular loot settings (with Lucky!) to see how hard it is to find basic stuff after looting well over a dozen sheds......

 

Zero Gas Cans. I don't even expect to always find full ones, but NO empty ones even? This definitely needs some tweaking, how are we suppose to get gas if we can't even find cans?

 

Zero Generator Manuals. Guess the owners packed them all off, but left all the generators behind. I found a silly amount of generators, and about 2, maybe 3 electronics magazines. The Generator Manual probably needs its own loot roll, as it doesn't make sense to find none at all.

 

Charcoal, and to a lesser extent, propane tanks, were found in the sheds in a reasonable amount.

 

So in summary.........

 

Please raise the amount of Gas Cans found. They don't even need to be full, but there's not much of a point to make a trek to the gas station if you don't have any containers to fill.

 

Raise the amount of Generator Manuals. Doesn't make sense to find so many generators and ZERO manuals. I suspect it sharing a generic loot pool with all electronic magazines is causing the problem.

[EnigmaGrey]

Are you playing with zombies off, Moose?

[Moose65]

Are you playing with zombies off, Moose?

 

To be honest yeah, I do it when I just want to test things and see how they work. Do they actually have to walk into the smoke bombs for them to go off?

 

Seems odd that you still can't pick it back up though after placing it.

[Jonientz]

K, so testing this on regular loot settings (with Lucky!) to see how hard it is to find basic stuff after looting well over a dozen sheds......

 

Zero Gas Cans. I don't even expect to always find full ones, but NO empty ones even? This definitely needs some tweaking, how are we suppose to get gas if we can't even find cans?

 

Zero Generator Manuals. Guess the owners packed them all off, but left all the generators behind. I found a silly amount of generators, and about 2, maybe 3 electronics magazines. The Generator Manual probably needs its own loot roll, as it doesn't make sense to find none at all.

 

Charcoal, and to a lesser extent, propane tanks, were found in the sheds in a reasonable amount.

 

So in summary.........

 

Please raise the amount of Gas Cans found. They don't even need to be full, but there's not much of a point to make a trek to the gas station if you don't have any containers to fill.

 

Raise the amount of Generator Manuals. Doesn't make sense to find so many generators and ZERO manuals. I suspect it sharing a generic loot pool with all electronic magazines is causing the problem.

I would say throw it in the tracker but It's a possibility it was intentional, right?? 

[Blake81]

Just found a generator, as well as a very strange (and highly exploitable) bug.

 

Picking it up is like picking up a corpse, and that's to be expected. However, if you pick it up, put it down, walk away from it and choose ''Take Generator'' from afar, you pick it out WITHOUT MOVING FROM YOUR PLACE and the generator stays right where it was AFTER YOU GAIN ONE IN YOUR INVENTORY.

 

In other words, they duplicate. And you can repeat this as many times as you need.

 

Also, if after you get you ''duplicated'' generator, you walk back to the one that's still in the ground and pick it up you get TWO GENERATORS in your inventory. And if you drop the one you're holding, the other one REMAINS in your inventory, allowing you to use weapons.

 

This is perhaps the biggest issue I've seen so far.

 

As for the Electrician magazines, I found one in the very same shed I found the generator (I have Abundant Loot and Lucky). And later on I found a full gas can in a dumpster. I've yet to find a Gas Station to try the rest of the functions out.

[EnigmaGrey]

Are you playing with zombies off, Moose?

 

To be honest yeah, I do it when I just want to test things and see how they work. Do they actually have to walk into the smoke bombs for them to go off?

 

Seems odd that you still can't pick it back up though after placing it.

Not sure if it's still in, but the amount of zombies may impact the amount/rarity of loot you find.

[Moose65]

 

Not sure if it's still in, but the amount of zombies may impact the amount/rarity of loot you find.

 

 

Hrm......we really need a developer to come in and confirm if this is true or not. Zombies honestly should NOT affect loot amount/rarity, as it defeats the purpose of using sandbox to test things.

 

Also, as a side note, "Electricity" is a really weird name for the skill set. It should honestly be renamed to "Electrical", because you wouldn't say you had Electricity Skills, unless your Thor.

[Blake81]

Was wondering why we've never gotten a Shut-in and Smoker traits.

 

Those with the Shut-in Trait wouldn't get boredom/unhappiness while inside a building, but would get them after spending too long without doing anything while outside a building.

 

And those with the Smoker trait would get epic long tongues to grab survivors and-I'm just jokin

 

Those with the Smoker trait would get an increased happiness modifier (as opposed to the negative one) for smoking cigarettes, but would get unhappy if spent too long without smoking any.

[tommysticks]

The number of zeds does effect the likeliness of how much stuff spawns, up to 8 zeds. Don't remember the math of it (on my phone ATM) but it can be found in itempicker.lua

[Jonientz]

Was wondering why we've never gotten a Shut-in and Smoker traits.

 

Those with the Shut-in Trait wouldn't get boredom/unhappiness while inside a building, but would get them after spending too long without doing anything while outside a building.

 

And those with the Smoker trait would get epic long tongues to grab survivors and-I'm just jokin

 

Those with the Smoker trait would get an increased happiness modifier (as opposed to the negative one) for smoking cigarettes, but would get unhappy if spent too long without smoking any.

Nicotine withdrawal can include nausea, agitation depression and other things.

[tommysticks]

TL;DR - It's like rolling a 10,000 sided die four times every time you see a wardrobe. If any of those rolls is <= 170 a pistol will spawn with lucky trait and 8 zeds nearby. It would have to be <= 30 without lucky and zero zeds.

 

An item is spawned if its Item Number (+1 for lucky, -1 for unlucky) x 100 x the loot modifier + Zombie Density (up to 8) x 10 is less than a random number between 0 and 10000.

 

I don't know where the loot modifier comes from, but if a particular item doesn't have one it uses default 0.6

 

So a Pistol in a wardrobe has an item number of 0.5 and there are 4 rolls for this container type. The math would look like this with lucky and 10 zombies nearby:

 

((0.5 + 1) x 100) x 0.6 + (8 x 10) = 170

 

So if the random number between 0 and 10000 is <= 170 a pistol will spawn. There are 4 chances for this happening with 4 rolls for the wardrobe container.

 

Also, if the unlucky trait is chosen and the item number goes below 0 it defaults back to 0.1

 

Just realized the loot modifier is probably the setting from rare to high, but I don't know what that changes the loot modifier to.

[Tyken132]

TL;DR - It's like rolling a 10,000 sided die four times every time you see a wardrobe. If any of those rolls is <= 170 a pistol will spawn with lucky trait and 8 zeds nearby. It would have to be <= 30 without lucky and zero zeds.

 

An item is spawned if its Item Number (+1 for lucky, -1 for unlucky) x 100 x the loot modifier + Zombie Density (up to 8) x 10 is less than a random number between 0 and 10000.

 

I don't know where the loot modifier comes from, but if a particular item doesn't have one it uses default 0.6

 

So a Pistol in a wardrobe has an item number of 0.5 and there are 4 rolls for this container type. The math would look like this with lucky and 10 zombies nearby:

 

((0.5 + 1) x 100) x 0.6 + (8 x 10) = 170

 

So if the random number between 0 and 10000 is <= 170 a pistol will spawn. There are 4 chances for this happening with 4 rolls for the wardrobe container.

 

Also, if the unlucky trait is chosen and the item number goes below 0 it defaults back to 0.1

 

Just realized the loot modifier is probably the setting from rare to high, but I don't know what that changes the loot modifier to.

 

Woah, so that means the amount of zombies nearby increases the amount of items or rarity of the items you find?

[RobertJohnson]

Yup, it's always been this way.

 

Tho I'll remove that if sandbox options is no zombies I'll consider there's a maximum of zombies, I think no zombies are purely for test anyway...

[Moose65]

Yup, it's always been this way.

 

Tho I'll remove that if sandbox options is no zombies I'll consider there's a maximum of zombies, I think no zombies are purely for test anyway...

 

So this is kinda confusing, does this mean I'm better off dragging a group of zombies near a house before I begin looting to get "better" loot? So if I silently dispatch all the zombies near a house I'll get "worse" loot? This is a weird and strange mechanic if it operates in this way.

[tommysticks]

 

So this is kinda confusing, does this mean I'm better off dragging a group of zombies near a house before I begin looting to get "better" loot? So if I silently dispatch all the zombies near a house I'll get "worse" loot? This is a weird and strange mechanic if it operates in this way.

 

 

I'm not entirely sure the radius of the effect of the number of zeds, but yes, if you drag zeds to an unpopulated area the chances of better loot will go up. You are also rewarded for clearing a previously uncleared area.

 

The way that items load in containers is by the size of your screen (approximately). So even as you are moving around shit's loading in all lootable containers that your screen can see (it still loads even if it's in the blackness on your screen). If there are up to 8 zeds in the area as you walk toward a house the chances of a pistol spawning in a wardrobe triple (approximately) - without the lucky trait. With the lucky trait and 8 zeds the chances are 6 times (approximately) as likely (which is still pretty low).

 

So you can run around with at least 8 zeds on your tail and increase your chances of finding rare loot. (8 is the cap on the number of zeds). Your chances will be higher if they are in the area, rewarding you for clearing an area rather than going to an already cleared area.

 

Just an FYI, zombie corpses load their loot when you come in range to see what's on their bodies (standing right next to them).

[Moose65]

So the question is, when is loot actually rolled for? When you first load a area, or when you first open a container?

 

If its the latter, does that mean your punished for clearing out or leading away zombies from your looting spot? That's a quirky mechanic if so.

 

Even more confusing is multiplayer. Does simply having one lucky player walking around an area pre-load it with "lucky" loot, and is it detrimental to have that unlucky guy following you around pre-loading containers with "bad" loot?

[tommysticks]

It is rolled for when the area loads, except for zombies. They load when you touch them.

If some punk with unlucky on MP ran through the entire map, all containers would load with shittier loot. At least I dont see anything that is changed by multiplayer.

[Moose65]

It is rolled for when the area loads, except for zombies. They load when you touch them.

If some punk with unlucky on MP ran through the entire map, all containers would load with shittier loot. At least I dont see anything that is changed by multiplayer.

 

lol, new level of griefing, make a fitness instructor with runner + adrenaline junkie + unlucky and sprint through every area possible making the loot awful.

 

Edit: Now I foresee "unlucky" being a banned trait in multiplayer.

[headzit]

So the question is, when is loot actually rolled for? When you first load a area, or when you first open a container?

 

If its the latter, does that mean your punished for clearing out or leading away zombies from your looting spot? That's a quirky mechanic if so.

 

Even more confusing is multiplayer. Does simply having one lucky player walking around an area pre-load it with "lucky" loot, and is it detrimental to have that unlucky guy following you around pre-loading containers with "bad" loot?

Yeah, agreed. A really bizarre mechanic.

[tommysticks]

 

So the question is, when is loot actually rolled for? When you first load a area, or when you first open a container?

 

If its the latter, does that mean your punished for clearing out or leading away zombies from your looting spot? That's a quirky mechanic if so.

 

Even more confusing is multiplayer. Does simply having one lucky player walking around an area pre-load it with "lucky" loot, and is it detrimental to have that unlucky guy following you around pre-loading containers with "bad" loot?

Yeah, agreed. A really bizarre mechanic.

 

Simple fix with a mod, it would have to replace one of the game files though, so it might not work after the update.

So if shit gets crazy after you update, turn this mod off.

 

EDIT: Here is the download.

 

The mod maxes out the zombie count at all times. So items spawn as if there are 8 (8 is the old cap) zeds nearby at all times.

[headzit]

 

 

So the question is, when is loot actually rolled for? When you first load a area, or when you first open a container?

 

If its the latter, does that mean your punished for clearing out or leading away zombies from your looting spot? That's a quirky mechanic if so.

 

Even more confusing is multiplayer. Does simply having one lucky player walking around an area pre-load it with "lucky" loot, and is it detrimental to have that unlucky guy following you around pre-loading containers with "bad" loot?

Yeah, agreed. A really bizarre mechanic.

 

Simple fix with a mod, it would have to replace one of the game files though, so it might not work after the update.

So if shit gets crazy after you update, turn this mod off.

 

EDIT: Here is the download.

 

The mod maxes out the zombie count at all times. So items spawn as if there are 8 (8 is the old cap) zeds nearby at all times.

 

Nice, tyvm! I'll try it later (finals). Any way I could see if it worked?

[tommysticks]

Nice, tyvm! I'll try it later (finals). Any way I could see if it worked?

Nope, the difference will be very subtle. All it is is a change of a single line in one of the game files.

 

I could make it so shit spawns insanely high or everything that is possible to spawn will spawn.

[EnigmaGrey]

 

So the question is, when is loot actually rolled for? When you first load a area, or when you first open a container?

 

If its the latter, does that mean your punished for clearing out or leading away zombies from your looting spot? That's a quirky mechanic if so.

 

Even more confusing is multiplayer. Does simply having one lucky player walking around an area pre-load it with "lucky" loot, and is it detrimental to have that unlucky guy following you around pre-loading containers with "bad" loot?

Yeah, agreed. A really bizarre mechanic.

 

Well, let's ignore the two issues presented earlier in this thread for a second.

Where's the choice loot going to be in this situation? Where people have died. Where is it more likely people are dead? Where there's tons of zombies. So, there's now an incentive to say, go to West Point's hardware store to find that damn trowel, as it doesn't seem to be spawning out in the boonies, where people  could have fled / raided to their hearts' content.

I'm sure the changes to the looting system lately will also result in this mechanic being changed in some way, but I doubt it's going anywhere.