The Silver Lining of NPC Delays Etc

[Albie]

Seems some people are getting irate on reddit. Such whining and petty insults on there. How Enigma kept his calm I'll never know.

[Reef_Vex]

I Just Got The Game Last Week And By Far My Favorite Game On Steam 

 

Hang In There

Take Your Time

Keep Making The Game Great 

Stay Awesome

 

 

 

 

[FireOnAsphalt]

Definitely though. If it wasn't for the fact that I play the non-Steam version, I'd easily have hundreds and hundreds of hours racked up on my account on this game.

 

And I paid $15 for it.

 

It ranks up there on my personal favorites such as Terraria, Skyrim and L4D2, each of which I have 800+ hours on. L4D2 boasts a nice 1117 hours at the moment, and I'm sure this game will reach those lofty reaches at some point. When anybody asks me about this game, I have nothing but praise to sing.

 

Keep up the awesome work guys. You've gone above and beyond. 

[Tulpa]

There are a few good things to be said here and few bad things.

 

First of all, I'm very happy with the way you interact with the community most of the time. It's very refreshing to see mostly (more on that later) friendly devs who seem very caring about their project, which happens to be a very high quality game bettter I do dare say compared to most AAA games coming out these days. (Fallout 4... derp.)

 

It's good that you care about quality. Quality is good. However, I have a few criticisms. Don't wet your shorts.

 

"I also know that these NPCs are one of the most ambitious NPC systems in the history of games."

 

You're right. That does seem arrogant. There have been so many brilliant A.I. invented in games over the years and some that are yet to come out that will raise the standards in A.I. Alien: Isolation and No Man's Sky come into mind - mainly because the NPCs actually learn from the player's actions and the enviroment, and adjust their behavior accordingly. The only the tip of the Iceberg apparently when it comes to some of the promised content in No Man's Sky.

 

I will laugh my socks off if the NPCs for this game finally come out and they are on the same level as the villagers from Minecraft. But I disgress. Being ambitious is good - but as others have said - if it's going to take six for so years for it to come out than that's not very good. I mean, we have no timeframe for when to expect a complete single player experince and the game has already been out for a long time. (Frist it was last year, then this year and now it's next year.) The community is strong, but how long are people willing to stick around for this? As others have said, multiplayer zombie survival games with crafting systems are a dime a dozen now - plus I'm a person who doesn't like the massive multiplayer experince. (I prefer Co-op, because people are really mean online.)

 

Being unhappy about it isn't going to make it come even faster, so I'm not sure what my point with this even is. I mean, you're going to implement a realisitic TV simulation over NPCs... I'm really excited to finally get the chance to watch a tiny pixelated person watch TV in a video game. Multiplayer probably increased sales for you - so good for you. Not much has been done to improve the singleplayer experince though. I REALLY do love the world detroation though. I feel like more gaming companies should copy modders more often. How many games would be so much better if they just took the mods and put them in as the main game. Plus, it saves devs from actual work! (If only the Fallout 4 people had done this... derp.) Other than that... the game looks exactly the same than the last time I checked it. I feel like people's complaints are warrented when they say that it feels like this game's development is in stasis and focus was only put into multiplayer in order to increase sales.

 

How can I really support you guys if you priotize multiplayer over the single-player experince? I feel like that's what other gaming studios do that shall not be named.

 

I'm also afraid that the NPCs may ruin the singleplayer experince at the same time....

 

Thinking to multiplayer worlds, eventually there comes a point where the zombies become redundent and the only thing you have to fear are the other people while you run around an empty world drinking water from toilets, holding a butterknife and eating rotten food. Or the NPCs could be so dum that they manage to get themselves killed all the time. (I'm sure it wouldn't be like that given the amount of time it's taking you to release them.) It would be neat if you can get the NPCs to react accordingly when you raise the difficulty to the highest level in Sandbox. (Tough, sprintng, eagle-eyed zombies.) At the same time - it wouldn't be really fair if you get hostile NPCs that go after you and insta-kill you without much warning.

 

So that is my two scents. The game is rather spooky on single-player and I love that because I love horror games - PZ is the best zombie game by far even with the pixelated (sort-of) graphics. So take pride in that, I guess. Still, singe-player seems... empty.

 

I truly do hope that NPCs will be everything that you are promising - but you are making big promises.

 

I always find it annoying when you begin to witness the zombie apolocypse happen right AFTER it happens... so it would be neat to see naive NPCs react to the horror around them and if they are what you say they are, see how different personalities react at it begins. World War Z (the book) was very good at capturing this, I think. From what you describe, it seems there will be conversation choices to different NPCS and every reaction has consquences. It seems that there will be different personalities and backstories which will effect the decisions that they make. I hope it's as immersive as you plan it to be. If it's not - we'll at least the world will feel a little less empty even if the NPCs just run around and be totally useless or just shoot at you for no good reason. I wonder if they will grow as people as the apocalypses goes into it later stages. I've managed to stay alive for years in-game, so I wonder if they can or if the NPCs will just repeat the same dialoge over and over again.

 

It seems with radios and TV programs, no matter how redundent they seem at the moment, that you guys are writing out a story that the player will ineract with. That could be neat - I assume the NPCs will watch the telly and listen to the radio and comment and react accordingly.

 

It seems like you guys need a certain amount of ego-stroking which I find annoying. What's this I hear about banning people who dare open their mouths to critize the game? Alright, talk about how much you're suffering and lure the fanboys out to worship you. Just know that the complaints are warrented and we're not being unreasonable for critizing the game in this aspect. We're ready to quit. I certainly have quit this game for long periods of time, than came back to see if there's ANY news about NPCs only to hear "Nope, it's coming next year." or whining along the lines of "Nope, it may come whenever we get around to it... now leave us alone!"

 

Putting a lot of work into a project doesn't warrent acting like spoiled passive-aggresive brats whenever someone dares to offer up their criticisms. And let me tell you, I despise passive-aggresiveness. This isn't Toddlers and Tiaras. People are going to open up their big mouths and complain. You don't need to piss your pants every time they do.

 

We've been waiting... years any sort of progress. I was in High School when I played this game for the first time. It's been nearly half a decade. That's a long time. So expect complaints.

 

Really, straight up ending conversations because you don't like what people have to say? As a player, I aprreciate the work put into the game, but I also don't feel like giving you a virtual handjob today. Pretty much demanding praise for the game is pretty low. Sorry for not feeling the gratitude towards you for releasing your holy child upon this world. I'm surprised I didn't go blind from it's divine aura upon my immediate vicinity towards the thing. I really do not appreciate being slammed to the ground for my opinions, by the developers or the community. I think someone is misjudging about who needs who here.

 

Oh, sure, NPCs ARE coming.... in the next five years or so. "TIS has chosen to abstain from their mention until closer to their release." Well, good! Hold your breath until I call.

 

On a positive note, when the devs aren't acting like spoiled brats, I truly appreciate when you guys decide to positively take suggestions and improve the game a little bit by that input despite said behavior and the truly poisnious nastiness of this commnunity. One last note: The inergrations you have made so far have improved the single-player experince a bit, but I feel that it's not enough. It's hard to put a finger on - It's just that not a lot of different things happen. The zombies do the same thing all the time. It loses it's novelty, I guess, once you figure out how things work and then do them. I think you should add more unique challages, and perhaps special zombies and maps for those challenges. The challenges you have are fun and I feel a few different scenarios would be great to keep the replayability up. The mall challenge so far is my favorite. Winter Is Coming is insane. We only have six so far, but a lot of cool things can be done I think that probably wouldn't take that long or at least as long as NPCs. (Special zombies have been brought up before - anything to make the game-world more interesting.)

 

That is just my two cents in the pot. For now, I'm done with this game and this damn community. I really don't understand why focus is being put into multiplayer or why you are implenting a TV simulator so I can watch my person watch TV. I don't understand why the game-world is so drab with the same things all over. I don't really understand why there aren't any more interesting modes or challenges to play in, or why there are only one zombie type or why zombies do all same things. (I do love the hording mechanic, so there's that.) I don't really know what you guys are doing to improve the single-player experince unless if 100% of the focus is being put into NPCs, but if it will take as long as you imply, then the lifespan of the game may be over by the time the NPCs finally arrive. All in all, I don't really understand a lot of the desicions being made or if any plans are in place to make single-player more fun, other than NPCs which are obviously so far away that I'll probably playing No Man's Sky by then or even the next TES. I just feel like it's another situation that gaming companies often make - which is to trade single-player in place of multiplayer. To be 100% honest, multiplayer makes me sick and I don't find multiplayer fun. It's not a problem with PZ, but just the way multiplayer works in general across most games.

 

So, to end it off, I'm off to another great horror game. There's enough here to say that PZ is great. Yes, great. So maybe I'll do a little ego-stroking after all. But as said before, multiplayer survival zombie games are a dime a dozen these days and once the monsters stop being scary than I'm done.

[Spracky]

@Tulpa

[Tulpa]

@Spracky

+1

[Spracky]

Hahaha

[EnigmaGrey]

You're right. That does seem arrogant. There have been so many brilliant A.I. invented in games over the years and some that are yet to come out that will raise the standards in A.I. Alien: Isolation and No Man's Sky come into mind - mainly because the NPCs actually learn from the player's actions and the enviroment, and adjust their behavior accordingly. The only the tip of the Iceberg apparently when it comes to some of the promised content in No Man's Sky.

Throughout all my years of gaming, I've not met a particularly good AI; one that learns from the player in an emergent, radiant, or neural manner, despite untold numbers of marketers claiming their games would provide such. They all rely on contrived stations and rigid scripting, to the point where it's obvious after a few hours playing with them.

To me, it'd be an empty target if TIS chose such an under-handed way to describe their future AI.

I doubt No Man's Sky will meet its ambition or that Alien Isolation's is very complex (but I've not played the latter).

Instead, it's the scope of the AI that gives it its ambition.

 

I will laugh my socks off if the NPCs for this game finally come out and they are on the same level as the villagers from Minecraft.

TIS has already proven they can create AI at a higher level than the first 1.0 version of MineCraft, two years ago.

It may not have been perfect, or bug-free, but it was a beginning appropriate for a game in early development.

 

I mean, we have no timeframe for when to expect a complete single player experince and the game has already been out for a long time. (Frist it was last year, then this year and now it's next year.) The community is strong, but how long are people willing to stick around for this?

The game was hoped to be feature complete by the second quarter of 2015, with a lengthy pre- and post- face making it clear that this was only a best guess. There was no "last year." For that matter, there's no "next year," either.

Instead of shrinking, the community has grown massively over the years. Multiplayer just blew up with the release of Steam integration, and the modding community has jumped on workshop support.

There's more to a game than just it's base software. Those whom have bought the game and interact with the community seem largely patient and understand that game development takes years.

 

I mean, you're going to implement a realisitic TV simulation over NPCs...

Television, radio, and moving furniture are mainly the work of TurboTuTone, whom was hired on his earlier portfoilio of mods.

There is no putting these features over NPCs; they're just coming first, as his work is completed.

[EnigmaGrey]

Not much has been done to improve the singleplayer experince though.

Anything that is added to single player is added to multipalyer; there's no neat division between server and client in PZ; it was programmed as a single player game and still operates as one.

 

I feel like more gaming companies should copy modders more often.

The same modder whom wrote the erosion mod, yet you disparage for his work on television/radio, whom now is a developer on Project Zomboid, after proving himself?

Just as RobertJohnson was hired for his farming work. They've both proven themselves to be capable of creating complex systems, with harsh restrictions on available information at the time.

 

A better way to put it might be "I feel like more gaming companies should hire talented and dedicated modders for developer roles, more often."

 

How many games would be so much better if they just took the mods and put them in as the main game.

Yet that's not what happened with Project Zomboid. You discredit TurboToTone's, Mash's, Romain's, and several other developer's own work expanding and integrating the erosion mod by being so flippant.

 

. . . the game looks exactly the same than the last time I checked it.

Should it not? Why should its appearance or core systems drastically change from whatever indefinite period you deem worthy of measuring time?

The core of the game is already here, baring some tweaking, balancing, and expansion of content (if we ignore the two remaining features on the developer's checklist: cars and NPCs).

Expecting dramatic upheaval at this point is your own personal folly.

 

I doubt you bought the game expecting it to be a different game later on.

 

I feel like people's complaints are warrented when they say that it feels like this game's development is in stasis and focus was only put into multiplayer in order to increase sales.

I'd recommend investigating other indie projects funded in a similar manner. You'll find they're rarely fast, and are often multi-year projects (sometimes even multidecade).

Multiplayer has been planned from the beginning, and was only added after it was found to be a much simpler act than earlier thought in the project. So much so that, if you know about programming, you'd probably be unhappy to learn that PZ's multiplayer focus is really just bolting a simple server to a single player game, baring some enhancements for management of that server.

If there was a focus on MP, I doubt there'd be updates at all, similar to the final year(s) of MineCraft's attempts to re-integrate Survival with their client/server paradigm.

Instead, TIS has gone out of their way to hire a separate company (General Arcade) to add Steam integration of both MP and Workshop, as well as to make the multiplayer process simpler.

An absence of visible progress on your most-desired features does not mean something else is in "focus."

 

Thinking to multiplayer worlds, eventually there comes a point where the zombies become redundent and the only thing you have to fear are the other people while you run around an empty world drinking water from toilets, holding a butterknife and eating rotten food. Or the NPCs could be so dum that they manage to get themselves killed all the time. (I'm sure it wouldn't be like that given the amount of time it's taking you to release them.) It would be neat if you can get the NPCs to react accordingly when you raise the difficulty to the highest level in Sandbox. (Tough, sprintng, eagle-eyed zombies.) At the same time - it wouldn't be really fair if you get hostile NPCs that go after you and insta-kill you without much warning.

You might even say zombies aren't the true threat in a zombie apocalypse; that they're effectively a personified natural disaster. It's an old trope, present even Romero's eerier work.

Feel free to disable NPCs in sandbox if they may bother you so much, or make zombies redundant.

 

It seems like you guys need a certain amount of ego-stroking which I find annoying. What's this I hear about banning people who dare open their mouths to critize the game? Alright, talk about how much you're suffering and lure the fanboys out to worship you. Just know that the complaints are warrented and we're not being unreasonable for critizing the game in this aspect. We're ready to quit. I certainly have quit this game for long periods of time, than came back to see if there's ANY news about NPCs only to hear "Nope, it's coming next year." or whining along the lines of "Nope, it may come whenever we get around to it... now leave us alone!"

If you really do feel that the direction of the game is going to an area that you do not like; that the developers have mistreated you by choosing to avoid confrontation in certain areas, please, feel free to "quit." These things happen, we understand. It's not you, it's us. Life is fluid and development projects themselves are living things.

If you actively be "unlovely" on the forum (e.g. openly attack, lie, and be rude or abusive in your criticism, you may be banned. You'll find our policies much more lenient than most, yet I suspect you may fear you've been a bit too, uh, short in some places and are trying to stave off possible punitive action.

Might want to reflect on your post, if that's the case.

 

Putting a lot of work into a project doesn't warrent acting like spoiled passive-aggresive brats whenever someone dares to offer up their criticisms. And let me tell you, I despise passive-aggresiveness. This isn't Toddlers and Tiaras. People are going to open up their big mouths and complain. You don't need to piss your pants every time they do.

Buying a game doesn't warrant people making demands, trying to impose their own timelines, and being outright aggressive, abusive, and rude towards the content creators, either. This is our community, and we want it to be exactly that: a collective of people sharng a common interest in experiecing the development of a game, not a stage for people to yell at one another or hurl insults.

 

Criticism and complaints are fine, but at this point I have a hard time believing anyone whom has been part of toxic forums and groups wants TIS to become one itself. There is a line.

We all get it: You bought a game, your assumptions proved faulty, either aren't or don't feel fully informed, you're upset, and you want it now. Great, everyone does -- including the people who's livelihood and future depend on delivering a good game, despite your anger, frustration, doubts, and feeling of disconnect.

 

If that means some of us choose to opt out of situations that depress, frusturate, or distract us in order to reach that same goal, then, well, that's just the way it is. No amount of condensation or appeals to "man up" will change that.

[Tulpa]

"If someone's disagreeing with you, that doesn't automatically mean they're attacking you." - PZ

 

 

You only just proved yourselves to be spoiled brats (which isn't an insult if it's true) AND hypocrites. I tried to be nice by implementing what I think to be positives WITH the negatives along with suggestions of what I at least think are good ideas to improve the single-player experince. Notice that I said EXPERINCE rather the game.

 

Of course, the children only decide to focus on one thing and ignore/deliberatly misunderstand all statements in order to make themselves look like a victim who is under attack.

 

Should I even bother to defend my words? It's really not worth it. I wasn't "making demands" and the only one who is being abusive is you. Again, who needs who here? When a majority of people talk about being mistreated by the PZ team, then you have a problem on your hands. The problem isn't with us - it's with you. I was making an inquiry about what you are doing to improve the single-player expiernce, while giving up my complaints about the game to you. That doesn't give you a free pass to whine about what I said. Clearly whoever is behind that account (Is that you,TurboTuTone?) is not a mature individual.

 

You get what you serve and if you didn't abuse, mistreat and generally whine about what people have to say about your game - then just maybe you wouldn't get so many people complaining. Keep in mind, the most negatives I had to say were about how you people treat the players.

 

You are a leading example of what's ruining early access games for everybody. Are you so secure about your "livelihood" that you would havefer refunds for anyone unsatisfied with the game? (If possible.) How many people I wonder would go for it.

 

What dramatic upheaval to you think I expect? Do you think I want you to put goomba's with power-ups? Get real. Your game is boring - that is the problem! What are doing exactly that will improve the singleplayer experince? I don't actually expect an answer at this point. You've managed to ignore everything I put down. Also, you are flat-out lying and misrepresenting about your own statements. In the past, you have given specific years and times as to when we should expect NPCs - and every time the date is pushed forward.

 

What do you mean "reflect on my post?" Are you trying be clever? You just come off as pathetic. Are you threatening me? Do you honestly think I care about getting banned from your little forum for speaking my opinion? I bought the facking game - so that gives me a right to speak what I think about it. If you don't like that - then you are going to have a problem with every critic.... ever. (See: Everybody.) If that's the case, then prepare for hell.

 

Nothing I can do or say can damage this game and your livelihood more than what you are already doing yourself; by your behavior and general attitude. I don't get it. You ignored/misunderstood everything I said, insulted me and threatened. Are you mad because I critizied the game? Are you mad because I used a few naughty words? Or are you just mad because I called you out on your behavior? Are you going to get uppity and personality offended everytime someone complains about the game? That's not a good buisness strategy.

 

Here's the thing: In all these years of development - there has been little to no visible improvement to the game. (Beyond aesthetic appearences and the horde mechanic.) Multiplayer people may be happy; but the game is still very flawed for people who prefer single player. There is no end content or motivation to explore beyond the basics of survival. (Food and fortification.) Houses are often repeated and zombies have no visble improvement. There is a total lack of incentive to progress as a character. Is there any forseeable future to this game? You ignored all of my inquiries - all. So maybe that speaks for itself more than anything - and your attitude is a prime example of why not to invest in early access games. I feel sorry that you have to be that sort of example. The thing it - every player counts. I could have reccomended this game to many people and raved about how great it is ten years down the line - and talk about how supportive the devs are about their players and their project. That could have gone a long way to support your livelihood. (One person tells two people, etc.)

 

Instead, I have nothing to reccomend. The game is a novelty right now because there is so little variation of what you can experince. Instead of commenting of possible future plans - you instead resulted in a personal attack. Think about that.

 

Here's how you should have handled it. (While still deliberatly ignoring all of my inquires.)

 

"Thanks for the input! We have a few tricks up our sleeve for the game but we can't spoil much - hopefully our future plans will improve your experince!"

 

Simple, nice and it at least awknowledges what I put down if even only a minimal ammount. Maybe you should hire me. (Please don't.) Your really an embarassment and you're only hurting yourself in the end - especially when you have countless people saying how callous your people are. What else can be said? A lot, really. But why bother? You are going to ignore everything I said (again) and most likely ban me because I had the gall to speak my mind. Who would be the man then? And don't tell me to "man up." You should "woman up."

 

 

"You might even say zombies aren't the true threat in a zombie apocalypse; that they're effectively a personified natural disaster. It's an old trope, present even Romero's eerier work."

 

Oh. My. God. Please do not even start with that pretentious crap. We get it. Humans are the real monsters. It's not like every other zombie fiction has done this to death before. Here's a hint: The zombies are always the main character in zombie fiction. When the zombie becomes a background object - then the zombies stop being scary. What "eerier" work are you talking about? Dawn of the Dead? You would have a point there - but there's only so many times a topic can be covered before people want to shoot the writers. DotD was great because it was innovative with it's message. The rest are just copy-cats. This is the reason why The Walking Dead has become widely hated. If you must know.

 

There's a lot that I could probably say that should rather be left unsaid - because would you actually listen? The answer is no. If Steam offered refunds - i would gladly take it because my experince with this whole thing has been sour. I am not so petty as to completely give up on a game or dis it, but I simply cannot recconmend this game to others anymore. I wish your project the best, though. Good luck with your livelihoods and I hope you wish the same to me. Who knows - you may actually improve the single-player experince and I may have a reason to keep playing.

 

P.S. Your commnuity truly is horrid - YOU HAVE A SERIOUS CYBERBULLYING ISSUE. You are certainly not helping the matter. I am not the only one who notices this - or PZ's team's bad behavior. That should tell you that you have a problem. Think about it.

[Gordonfleaman]

I thought EnigmaGrey was support staff? Why didn't a developer respond to this? Isn't the developer team the intended recipient of Tulpa's argument?

[Kajin]

No one has ever been banned for expressing dislike or criticism of Project Zomboid or the TIS developers. People have been banned for being abusive, insulting, or outright hostile but they are almost always a minority. All told this is one of the nicest communities I've ever come across with some of the most laid back and supportive staff I've ever seen.

 

Enigma wasn't threatening you, Tulpa. Your posts are carrying a somewhat hostile tone to them. This is the internet and it's hard to tell the overall mood of people's words sometimes. He was just giving you a polite reminder to try and moderate the general tone of your posts so as to keep from actually falling into hostile territory if you didn't actually mean it. It's not an attack on you.

 

As I've said, it's okay to be disappointed with the game in some way. The devs understand. You won't get banned for expressing that. Just try not to bite people's heads off and you'll be perfectly fine here.

 

 

I thought EnigmaGrey was support staff? Why didn't a developer respond to this? Isn't the developer team the intended recipient of Tulpa's argument?

EnigmaGrey happened to be online. The devs are almost entirely based in Europe and as such are most likely still asleep. If they do respond it won't be for another three or four hours.

[Strelokk]

You seem quite upset about a game and developers you dislike. If they bother you, why not just leave ? Speak your piece about the game mechanisms you would like to see changes on (but there's a suggestions subforum), game developers usually love constructive feedback to improve their product.

Also you say you despise passive-aggressiveness. That makes the almost-totality of your message quite ironic IMO.

[Rathlord]

Tulpa. As mentioned before, we don't ban people for criticizing the game. You can see plenty of examples (have a gander at this thread: https://steamcommunity.com/app/108600/discussions/0/520518053449950851/ ) of people criticizing the game- harshly, even- but we don't ban or even threaten to ban them for that.

 

Nor was Enigma threatening you in any way.

 

I, on the other hand, am threatening to ban you (just so we're clear). If you continue throwing personal attacks at people and posting vitriol about the devs and the community, you will be removed from our community. I have no problem with you criticizing the game or even the staff. But you can do that without name calling, harassment, and straight up lies. This isn't you being oppressed or cyber-bullied. This is me telling you that if you don't obey the rules of the forum, you will be banned as per the rules of the forum.

 

And, just to clear things up for you, banning people who are assholes from our community isn't cyberbullying. It's banning assholes from our community. https://xkcd.com/1357/

 

People here are willing to have a conversation about the points you're making, if you can keep your scathingly hateful attitude in check. I'd be more than willing to address your points about single player vs. multiplayer and the others. If you'd like to have that conversation, feel free to come back and make another post with all of the hate removed. If all you're here for is to attack TIS or try to throw things in our faces, enjoy your last post. If you reply with another tirade of anger, you're going to be gone.

[f3rret]

 

 

When a majority of people talk about being mistreated by the PZ team, then you have a problem on your hands. 

 

I'm not sure how you're counting the "majority" here, but I don't feel mistreated by the PZ team. For the record.

[Kirrus]

To be clear, EngimaGrey is Head of Project Zomboid's Support team because he knows the game inside out, far better than most. He's also a full moderator of the forums, and so may speak with either/both hats on.

 

I personally wrote the warning about disagreements and attacking. The moderators are watching this thread very closely. Please remember to be lovely to others, even when you don't agree with something they've done.

[Sooner535]

A little grain of reasoning on the whole PZ team being suppressive and such, I have seen a few responses by the dev team that have at the time seemed like personal attacks, on closer inspection I realize their intent was to say something nicely. The most notorious of this would be enigma (sorry bro) some posts he does come off as being just plain mean, but then I see his responses and reread and see that he actually wasn't (or if he had truly offended someone he tends to apologize and be civil about it) I would say that almost every post can be seen as mean or a personal attack, but after years of forum experience across the interwebs I tend to read between the lines more. Someone could have a bad day, could have said one thing and since there's no real emotion in posts it was lost, cultural barriers may even be responsible sometimes. I personally think enigma is a nice and helpful guy, he takes time out of his life and helps PZ and I applaud him for it. As for the whole PZ team the only one I talk to at all (twitter FTW) is RJ, if he is even a slight representation of the PZ team I can assure you they are nice, musically talented, enjoy pole dancing, and have French taste buds. I have never been turned down or mistreated in my long time here with them, this team has what it takes to reach the end goal and they are a good group of guys and gals.

Now if this to give criticism then there are a few points I must make:

1. Singleplayer is truly boring, I must admit I play 20-30 hours on SP and I'm done until I get my next PZ itch... What could improve this other then NPCs? Tbh I think adding things for the player to do like: more food recipes, a deeper medical system, different types of crafting (botany woot woot), etc. I think keeping the player ingame and busy helps bring about a better attraction to the game, as it increases the playability by a lot.

2. I don't understand the whole no named guns, ORTMan's great mod just makes PZ better, and more realistic.... I honestly can't even play PZ anymore without it :/.... I have exactly 109 people who have PZ on my steam friends list and about 30 of them are real life friends and each of them use the real gun mod and can't play without it as well..... I mean TBH I use guns more in base game (because you don't have to worry about different ammo types) I think the mod just increases the game realism by so much I can't even see why it would be excluded other then people who put the spawns at highest settings and play with low Zombs and say there's too much guns and ammo.......

3. Your new medical system and cooking system needs a lot more..... Cooking and medical, these two positions are my fav to play in a survival game.... I hope that the current ones arnt a representation of the true end, I personally think on the cooking side adding more recipes is a great start, but why not also let a good cool give extra effects to food (such as more boredom reduction and better happiness for foods) I personally believe this would increase the gameplay a lot (with more recipes OC) as for the medical side, on the steam suggestions forum I made a long post about it, check it out plez

4. Make playing without respawning Zombs on be more viable plez? I kill a few thousand near my base and I'm back to build 31 where zombies do not attack at all :/ it's like they get stuck in the city at a certain number and it just keeps them from wandering about, this should deff be addressed as I imagine a large portion of PZ players play without respawning.

Hope those don't come off wrong, and hope they help PZ grow

[Connall]

2. I don't understand the whole no named guns, ORTMan's great mod just makes PZ better, and more realistic.... I honestly can't even play PZ anymore without it :/.... I have exactly 109 people who have PZ on my steam friends list and about 30 of them are real life friends and each of them use the real gun mod and can't play without it as well..... I mean TBH I use guns more in base game (because you don't have to worry about different ammo types) I think the mod just increases the game realism by so much I can't even see why it would be excluded other then people who put the spawns at highest settings and play with low Zombs and say there's too much guns and ammo.......

 

It's worth pointing out that a real guns name is trademark, that you would probably need to license or seek permission to actually use in the game. It is why you see games with fake names or generic names, it's because they don't have permission or sought the permission to use the guns name.

[EnigmaGrey]

Sorry to build off your post, Sooner535. Seems like everyone else beat me to the response this morning.

1. Tbh I think adding things for the player to do like: more food recipes, a deeper medical system, different types of crafting (botany woot woot), etc. I think keeping the player ingame and busy helps bring about a better attraction to the game, as it increases the playability by a lot.

This is what I mean above about additional content. The systems, in one form or another are mostly in place, but they're only loosely utliized right now. As the bigger things get done, I'd expect more recipes and crafting options to be added.

Having winter be a real threat (right now, it's main negative is that it just slows you down) and balancing some of the rarer loot spawns to enable players to adequately prepare for this (canning, gas siphoning) would also be a big help.

Expanding clothing options requires the animation update meant for build 34; TV and Radio is meant to give a less passive alternative to skill books and provide lore the PZ world sorely needs. In the future, with NPCs, they may even provide lures and quests, not to mention long-distance communication.

2. I don't understand the whole no named guns, ORTMan's great mod just makes PZ better, and more realistic.... I honestly can't even play PZ anymore without it :/.... I have exactly 109 people who have PZ on my steam friends list and about 30 of them are real life friends and each of them use the real gun mod and can't play without it as well..... I mean TBH I use guns more in base game (because you don't have to worry about different ammo types) I think the mod just increases the game realism by so much I can't even see why it would be excluded other then people who put the spawns at highest settings and play with low Zombs and say there's too much guns and ammo.......

Another aspect to add to Connall's post: it's much easier to balance a small number of guns, either their stats or distribution, than dozens or hundreds of them. PZ isn't meant to be a focus on fire arms and the detail they'd require in greater number, so it's better left to modders. Instead, we seem to have gone towards more archetypes (pistol, shotgun, varmet rifle, hunting rifle). We'll probably get a revolver, an automatic rifle, and serveral other types by the end of it, but it won't be to the same scope as ORGM.

3. Your new medical system and cooking system needs a lot more..... Cooking and medical, these two positions are my fav to play in a survival game.... I hope that the current ones arnt a representation of the true end, I personally think on the cooking side adding more recipes is a great start, but why not also let a good cool give extra effects to food (such as more boredom reduction and better happiness for foods) I personally believe this would increase the gameplay a lot (with more recipes OC) as for the medical side, on the steam suggestions forum I made a long post about it, check it out plez

This, I hope, is answered with number 1.

4. Make playing without respawning Zombs on be more viable plez? I kill a few thousand near my base and I'm back to build 31 where zombies do not attack at all :/ it's like they get stuck in the city at a certain number and it just keeps them from wandering about, this should deff be addressed as I imagine a large portion of PZ players play without respawning.

So long as you play with distribution on, and maybe turn up their response to sounds, they shuold still move around the map. Check your Advanced Options. There'll be limits, though (I think the maximum sound response is 1000 tiles).

You may want to consider re-enabling respawn, but increasing the length of time it takes for a chunk to be unseen and the frequency at which they respawn. Patrolling is very effective because of this. The above is what this system is meant to fix.

[Global_Meltdown]

To be fair, TIS does more listening with their mouth, than ears. Let people say their piece. Reflect and improve. It's either asskissing or scolding on these forums, all of which seems fake and vain. I wish dialogues of all forms were accepted as even the negative posts can be productive and useful in your industry if you try to understand your whole fan base. When you call up any customer service, do they tell you your wrong for being upset about what there product isn't? No, they take it for what it's worth because the customer is always right and improve the product. All while keeping their composure regardless of the customers demeanor. I speak with over a decades of customer service experience.

[Gordonfleaman]

To be clear, EngimaGrey is Head of Project Zomboid's Support team because he knows the game inside out, far better than most. He's also a full moderator of the forums, and so may speak with either/both hats on.

 

I personally wrote the warning about disagreements and attacking. The moderators are watching this thread very closely. Please remember to be lovely to others, even when you don't agree with something they've done.

 

Thanks for clearing that up, I got confused about that.

[EnigmaGrey]

To be fair, TIS does more listening with their mouth, than ears. Let people say their piece. Reflect and improve. It's either asskissing or scolding on these forums, all of which seems fake and vain. I wish dialogues of all forms were accepted as even the negative posts can be productive and useful in your industry if you try to understand your whole fan base. When you call up any customer service, do they tell you your wrong for being upset about what there product isn't? No, they take it for what it's worth because the customer is always right and improve the product. All while keeping their composure regardless of the customers demeanor. I speak with over a decades of customer service experience.

Sorry, I'll never subscribe to the "customer is always right" paradigm, Global. They can certainly be wrong or manipulative, or simply trying to excuse being rude with false praise.

While some posts are useful (e.g. "Where have we done a bad job communicating, if they think that?") despite their negativity, it's not an excuse to leave your customers ignorant or fail to address their concerns. It's not respectful to assume that customers can't take a discussion of their points, particualrly not when they come onto a game development forum for that specific purpsoe.

If I make a mistake, I expect the sales represenative to explain where I went wrong and how to avoid it in the future, not pat me on the head and condescend to me, in real life. You should, too, considering one of the main benefits of being part of an indie project is that there's little-to-no PR or filter between staff and customer.

[Gordonfleaman]

For those who haven't watched it, 'The Mailbox - October 17, 2011' is a video by Totalbiscuit that briefly touches on The Indie Stone's past ethics and I think this video should be watched by people who want to see a different point of view on The Indie Stone's history.

After you watch that, you might have a better understanding about how indie game development is supposed to work (and how the customer isnt always right).

 

Speaking of TB, I'm praying for his recovery.

[EnigmaGrey]

For those who haven't watched it, 'The Mailbox - October 17, 2011' is a video by Totalbiscuit that briefly touches on The Indie Stone's past ethics and I think this video should be watched by people who want to see a different point of view on The Indie Stone's history.

After you watch that, you might have a better understanding about how indie game development is supposed to work (and how the customer isnt always right).

 

Speaking of TB, I'm praying for his recovery.

 

Not to mention how someone can be critical of a game/developers, without being rude.

[Daman453]

For those who haven't watched it, 'The Mailbox - October 17, 2011' is a video by Totalbiscuit that briefly touches on The Indie Stone's past ethics and I think this video should be watched by people who want to see a different point of view on The Indie Stone's history.

After you watch that, you might have a better understanding about how indie game development is supposed to work (and how the customer isnt always right).

 

Speaking of TB, I'm praying for his recovery.

Ah, interesting video. Thanks for sharing. Also i would like to point out that it's PROJECT zomboid. (hmmm, i wonder if they will just called it Zomboid as soon as they are done with the game)